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Thread: Lost: The End

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    How do we know it didn't exist? It sure seemed to exist -- I mean, we spent an entire season watching events unfold there. To my mind, that means it existed at least as much as the island world.
    Yeah, I guess we can't really objectively "know" any of it was real, but (if you're being serious) you should rewatch the last scene with Christian. The way I understand it...

    Island = real life for Losties
    Flash-sideways = Losties envisioned it after death, before "moving on"

    There's some possible ambiguity in showing the wreckage...in that maybe the Losties were dead all along...but I think that was more a reflection of how far the show has come since that Pilot episode (chaos replaced by peace and quiet, all those frantic characters have now moved on, etc). I mean, it was just the wreckage (no bodies or anything). But I'm sure TPTB also realized that some people could raise the issue of their being dead the whole time, and I'm sure they feel okay with that ambiguity too.

  2. #82
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    My thoughts is the sideways universe is "the real" and the island is purgetory. I will preface this as I watched all of the first three season and some episodes here and there, since, but caught most of season 6. First was the ending that showed the wreckage with no survivors. Everyone on the plane died. Also how else would you explain Richard Alpert, Ben Linus etc? They are people they "met" in Purgetory. I think Kate was Jack's wife in real like...and that was their son. Julliet as Jack's ex-wife was random.

    Just my .02

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDT View Post
    Why they took half the final season showing an ambiguous 'reality' that in the end had no bearing on anything (nor did any actions taken in it make any difference to the story) and the other half playing out a battle between two new characters (neither of whom was terribly sympathetic) is a complete mystery to me. Frankly I think the producers got way too cute and the writers let nifty storytelling devices take the place of actual stories. But it was a fun ride for the most part. We're just rewatching Alias for the second time (a series with some definite parallels), and ever though I know it doesn't end well I had forgotten how perfectly plotted that first season was. Maybe that's the way Lost will ultimately be remembered.
    I agree totally on the Alias comments. Season 1 of Alias was some of the best TV ever for me. Great storylines and entertainment. Starting in Season 2 however, the show got progressively worse little by little each season to the point where the final season was lame and unwatchable.

    But Lost never came close to being as bad as Alias ended up being in its later seasons. Last night was great even if the very end left us empty regarding the "mystery" storylines. The character storylines were great and helped offset being cheated on the other stuff, even if just a little.

    As another poster mentioned, the very end with Jack lying in the place he was in after the initial crash, combined with the shots of the plane wreckage on the beach, had me believing they all died in the original crash. But that does not line up with how it ended. If they all died in the crash, then how did they find each other in the flash sideways and remember relationships/activities that never happened? I'm Lost on whether they survived the original crash or no?

    The Carolina Way:
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Clipsfan View Post
    I, like many, feel that many/most questions were left unanswered. Beyond that, the answers which are currently bring thrown out seem to ignore large parts of the past 6 seasons. Personally, I believe that this is because there was no master plan. If some random previous avenue doesn't agree with the current plan, the writers/producers just hope that people forget/ignore the earlier parts (or seasons, as the case may be). For instance, on Kimmel they stated that the island was real life. Didn't the Oceanic 6 leave the island? That wasn't an alternate universe, supposedly, but them actually leaving. Of course, the island being real life doesn't seem to make sense given the polar bears and the time travel etc. In the context of only season 6, that hypothesis appears to work, but not in the context of the whole show. Good luck finding a premise that works given the whole body of work, however, as the show constantly contradicts itself and doesn't really answer any questions because the answers don't exist.

    Basically, it's like a summer blockbuster. High production values, fun while you're watching, but something that you don't want to think about or it all falls apart. "Why didn't the cops shoot Mickey Rourke when he was running around with no armor but those whips?" "He built a particle accelerator in his basement?" Don't think about it. The real problem with Lost is that the show's popularity was largely caused by a fan base that liked to dissect the show and figure out what was really happening. Oil, meet water.
    If you're going to slam them for inconsistencies, don't use polar bears or alternate realities to do so.

    The polar bears question has been pretty thoroughly answered. Check out lostpedia if you're still wondering about them: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Polar_bears

    And yes, if the island was real life...that can mean the part where the Oceanic Six left was real life too. Then when they returned to the island...that was real life too. The only part that wasn't real was the flash-sideways world in Season 6. That sideways world had nothing to do with the off-island world in Seasons 4-5...it was created by Losties after they died. I don't see any inconsistency there at all.

  5. #85
    I think it was pretty good considering the writers didn't take 12 years to create a "middle-earth".

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Purgatory... they were in purgatory. Why do Ben and Elloise want to stay?"
    A requirement was that they had to learn to "let go" Ben enlightened but hasn't likely come to terms with his "daughters" death, perhaps he wants them to be enlightened and come with him? Ditto Eloise, hasn't let go and cant' move on as a result. In both cases, possibly they want the forgiveness of their children, as Ben indicated how important Hurley's forgiveness was so important for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    For a guy who engaged in a decades-long con game with Ben and the original Locke that was incredibly intricate in its planning, it made no sense for him to just abandon everything and swtich to a random "sink the island" plan.
    I didn't think Flocke realized Dez had those powers till that moment. At they point, he realized he didn't have to continue the con to try to get them to kill each other (his big buildup attempt in the sub didn't work). If you were him, and your options were continue to try to con them into killing each other in a long drawn out plan and hope it works when you've already failed once and this time they're already expecting it, or just destroy the island through the weapon you just discovered, which would you choose?

    A small point, his wound was to the abdomen, not chest (just a small correction). I too wondered how he made it out of the cave without damage though. My only thought, and it's a STRETCH, but he seemed to have ended up in a similar location to MIB when he came out the smoke monster. Maybe being chosen gives you some sort of protection? Maybe he was chucked out smokey style but was never given everlasting life as jacob and MIB were by their mother? I dunno...I agree on that one but I let it slide

    Jason, I like most of your posts but man...that's a lot of hate you're throwing. I know a few things I wish were different or were answered differently, but I'm really glad I've been able to not be bothered by them and just enjoy the good while ignoring any things that were off. Which shocks me, because I'm usually the person who focuses on the details.
    Last edited by DukeDevil; 05-25-2010 at 12:40 AM. Reason: correction
    Duke '03
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeDevil View Post
    I didn't think Flocke realized Dez had those powers till that moment. At they point, he realized he didn't have to continue the con to try to get them to kill each other (his big buildup attempt in the sub didn't work). If you were him, and your options were continue to try to con them into killing each other in a long drawn out plan and hope it works when you've already failed once and this time they're already expecting it, or just destroy the island through the weapon you just discovered, which would you choose?
    Yes, I think it's safe to assume he had just learned of Desmond's unique ability from Widmore (who whispered it to him before being shot to death). And using Desmond to destroy the island would actually fulfill his original goal by killing all the Losties.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Yeah, I guess we can't really objectively "know" any of it was real, but (if you're being serious) you should rewatch the last scene with Christian. The way I understand it...

    Island = real life for Losties
    Flash-sideways = Losties envisioned it after death, before "moving on"

    There's some possible ambiguity in showing the wreckage...in that maybe the Losties were dead all along...but I think that was more a reflection of how far the show has come since that Pilot episode (chaos replaced by peace and quiet, all those frantic characters have now moved on, etc). I mean, it was just the wreckage (no bodies or anything). But I'm sure TPTB also realized that some people could raise the issue of their being dead the whole time, and I'm sure they feel okay with that ambiguity too.
    Exactly, it was all laid out by Christian in that final scene in the church. To paraphrase, he said "This is a place you made to find each other" and that "There is no now". He also clearly said "Everything that happened to you actually happened." (these are rough quotes from memory)

    I'm not sure how it can be interpreted as anything other than Island=Reality, Sideways=Purgatory/Limbo.

    The view of the wreckage at the end just looked like the same wreckage that was there before, just aged and washed by time and a salty breeze.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Yeah, I guess we can't really objectively "know" any of it was real, but (if you're being serious) you should rewatch the last scene with Christian. The way I understand it...

    Island = real life for Losties
    Flash-sideways = Losties envisioned it after death, before "moving on"
    I am being serious. Given that we are dealing with a series which involved immortality, a smoke monster, ghosts, miracle cures and time traveling islands, I submit that a nether world where souls can create their own reality before "moving on" is just as "real" as a flesh and blood world.

    In other words, if reality is what is perceived by the spirit, the envelope in which the spirit is contained is immaterial.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    I'm not sure how it can be interpreted as anything other than Island=Reality, Sideways=Purgatory/Limbo.
    Okay, using your labels, is "purgatory" any less "real" than "reality"? Why? If the spirit survives and feels emotion, pain, etc. in both places, what makes one more real than the other?

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    I am being serious. Given that we are dealing with a series which involved immortality, a smoke monster, ghosts, miracle cures and time traveling islands, I submit that a nether world where souls can create their own reality before "moving on" is just as "real" as a flesh and blood world.

    In other words, if reality is what is perceived by the spirit, the envelope in which the spirit is contained is immaterial.
    My view on this is in line with Cato's. During the whole scene with Jack and Christian, I was drawn to the scene between Harry and Dumbledore in The Deathly Hallows when Harry was, essentially, in a "waiting room." Harry asked Dumbledore a lot of the same questions that Jack asked his father, including the following:

    “Tell me one last thing,” said Harry. “Is this real? Or has this been happening inside my head?”
    “Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?”

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by cato View Post
    Okay, using your labels, is "purgatory" any less "real" than "reality"? Why? If the spirit survives and feels emotion, pain, etc. in both places, what makes one more real than the other?
    I never took any philosophy or theology courses, so I can't get too far into a debate of what is and isn't real. For my purposes, the Island was on the timeline of current reality to you, me, the '04 Red Sox, etc. There was twist of time travel, smoke monsters, immortality, etc that made it fictional, but the world was present day Earth. This purgatory limbo "world" didn't actually take place at any time or place. It was only a way for the souls of the Losties to reconnect before heading off to what I assume is some sort of Heaven.

    But one can definitely question what is and isn't real. Does now exist? Did Duke actually win the National Championship? I not the person to ask these questions however.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  13. #93
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    Whew.

    I don't quite know what to think. I LOVED the episode up until the last 10 minutes. Before that (especially at about the 1 hour mark), I was saying, "Wow - so much is happening, how is this going to last 2 1/2 hours?").

    And then the end occurred.....and we find out they are in Purgatory...clinging to their old lives and old haunts until they reach enlightenment and can move on. In the final scene in the church I kept thinking, "Why does this remind me of Titanic?"

    So, random thoughts/likes/dislikes

    1) There were some tremendous scenes in this. Jin and Sun (and Juliet as their doctor), and suddenly understanding, and speaking English. Just great. Sawyer and Juliet - amazing. Hurley in just about every scene he was in. Ditto for Desmond.

    2) Obviously the sideways world was Purgatory....and if you discard the cheesy factor of that (which, admittedly, is tough), and step back and look at the full season, it not only makes sense with what the Producers/Writers were doing, they did a pretty damn good job of it. Sawyer was a cop - not a con-man - still trying to find the person who ruined his life, but realizing that wasn't important. Locke was a person who realized that walking wasn't as important as having love. Hurley had good luck. Kate was desperately seeking redemption. Charlie as well. Claire wanted to keep her child. Jin and Sun were tired of always striving for the support of their parents. And some weren't ready for redemption yet (Ben, even with enlightenment), Ana Lucia - who still was crooked. They did a good job pulling that together. I must admit.

    3) So, what was the island? I'm torn here. As someone else said, it could be real (with time travel, planes crashing, electromagnetism, bright lights, people who can't die, etc, etc)....or it could also have been some kind of purgatory. I must admit, that latter seems more likely. Some kind of gateway between life and Purgatory. That would explain the "lists" and people getting taken away after reaching certain points (i.e. Ecko). It would explain why Christian's casket was empty. It would explain why he showed up with Michael on the boat before it exploded. It would explain why you always arrived on the island unconscious - either via plane or sub. It would really explain everything, since none of it was truly real. Of course, we also know that the producers were doing things as they went along, kind of making things up....so maybe they don't know, or, more likely, it changed as they went along. But I think deep down they always knew this was about dying and moving on....and I bet they start hinting that the island wasn't truly real.

    4) Things I really liked: Hurley as #1 and Ben as #2 (and mentioning that at the end, which means they lived that way for a while). Ben saying, "Those were Jacob's rules." (again, I think this gives credence to the island as some kind of transition place between life and death. Jacob brought the Black Rock there because he could. Flocke wanted off because he wanted to cheat death. JMHO.). Kate and Jack - they pulled that acting off. Seeing Penny.

    5) Things I loved. Hurley and "He's worse than Yoda." Sawyer with lots of Sawyerisms (blondie, tubby, etc). Miles - he was like me - always pretty confused, but going along for the ride. Plus he uses tape to fix things.

    6) Things I disliked. Frank not being dead...yeah, they needed a pilot, but how could he have gotten off that sub (unless, of course, the island was never real)? No Ecko at the end (100% on the actor, but boy I would have liked to have seen him). The banter between Jack and his dad (yawn).

    7) Thing I absolutely HATED. That Sayid was with Shannon. By far the worst part of this episode for me. Their love interest was way forced in Season 1, and didn't last long (what, a few days - maybe a week). And she's his constant? It should have been Nadia. In fact, in Purgatory he was dealing with his struggle to have her, to see her in an imperfect relationship and know that she could and should be with him - the person who truly loves her. This one single fact almost ruined the episode for me. Almost.

    Overall, I liked it. I think they were all dead the entire time, and this was about redemption - with lots of messed up things thrown in, and some B.S. by the producers as they went along. But it was tremendous acting, and a great mystery, and they did a pretty damn good job wrapping it all up, all things considered.

    Jack, Kate, Locke, Ben, Sawyer, Hurley, Juliet, Jin, Sun, Charlie, Desmond, Penny, Claire, Sayid, Richard, Rose, Bernard...thanks for being a part of my life. You will be missed.

  14. #94
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    As always, Doc Jensen's ramblings have a few great nuggets in them:

    I think fans and haters — and fans and fans-until-last-night — will be debating this for a while. NEWSFLASH! The argument will never be settled. I expect in the days to come, as I find myself in conversations with people who were disappointed, I will be asked to mount a defense of the series. I will be put on the spot to show them why it all ''made sense,'' and failing that, prove them that the show really did have a ''Greater Point To It All.'' But what is certain is that I will convince them of nothing. I also think it would be wrong and even disrespectful of me to try. Your experience of Lost is your experience of Lost, and it is valid. I presume you are intelligent people who are not blinded by personal bias. I am sorry you feel let down. But I do not share your perspective. Does that mean we can't ride the same church bus to heaven together? I hope not.
    and

    It's funny that so many people cynically bitch about Lost not having ''a master plan'' — the Lost story is all about the folly of ''master plans.'' Anyone who has ever had a master plan on this show has failed catastrophically. Mother. Jacob. The Man In Black. Ben. Charles Widmore. Jack. Sawyer. The best we can do is live our lives with enlightened improvisation — to be so self-aware and fearless that we can live fully in the present and redeem our every moment and every human connection.

  15. #95
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    Island = Not Real

    The more I think about it...all the signs were always there that the island was not real....but some kind of gateway between life and Death.

    The plane crashed....and there they were.

    Richard - about to be executed for murder....and he ends up on the island.

    The woman with twins....her boat sank in a storm. The children would never have been born.

    Even the Others - arrived on a sub, and never did so while awake.

    Of course it is up to each person to interpret things. But for me, I think the island was never real, which means the mythology never mattered. When Charlie asks, "Where are we?" It's what they all thought. And the scene at the very end, with the plane crash, seems to indicate that nobody survived. Jack lying down next to the shoe in the bamboo made it seem like it all happened at once.

    Who knows....but that's my take.

    Still reminded me of Titanic.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Udaman View Post
    The more I think about it...all the signs were always there that the island was not real....but some kind of gateway between life and Death.

    The plane crashed....and there they were.

    Richard - about to be executed for murder....and he ends up on the island.

    The woman with twins....her boat sank in a storm. The children would never have been born.

    Even the Others - arrived on a sub, and never did so while awake.

    Of course it is up to each person to interpret things. But for me, I think the island was never real, which means the mythology never mattered. When Charlie asks, "Where are we?" It's what they all thought. And the scene at the very end, with the plane crash, seems to indicate that nobody survived. Jack lying down next to the shoe in the bamboo made it seem like it all happened at once.

    Who knows....but that's my take.

    Still reminded me of Titanic.

    But how can you leave purgatory like the O6 did? What about Richard traveling to and from the island to meet Locke as a boy? Or Jacob meeting Kate and Sawyer at an early age. It doesn't jive with my understanding that purgatory is somewhere you go after you're dead. If they had died in the original crash, then why would Jacob be in both their childhood reality and in their purgatory?

    Also, the shoe was tattered and old. Time had progressed from when they crashed to when Jack died.

    Also, also the producers emphatically denied that what was taking place was purgatory way back in season 1 (take that for what it's worth however).
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  17. #97
    In a nutshell, I enjoyed the finale and I loved the series. Before I expound on my thoughts longer, I wanted to posit a few questions to the experts here:
    - What's the significance of the shoe? Did this appear originally near where Jack landed post plane crash?
    - What's the significance of Vincent coming to lay with Jack as he passed away?
    - Presumably the gray hair on Richard indicates that he is now aging. Is this because Jacob ashes burned out? If so, Richard presumably would've died at some point. Any reason he wasn't at the church?
    - Can someone elaborate on "the rules" between Jacob and his brother? Was it anything more than you cannot kill me directly? Presumably, it didn't take MiB thousands of years to figure out a "loophole" as simple as convincing someone else to kill him? Is there more to this?
    - Lastly (for now), I'd love more insight into the Ben vs. Widmore relationship. What started this feud? What was the purpose of their rival - simply that Widmore wanted the island and Ben wanted to keep him from it? Did Widmore ultimately have a change of heart because of a conversation with Jacob, or was Widmore still 'battling' Ben in their final scene? Also, I seem to recall a provision in "their rules" where they couldn't directly kill each (didn't Ben once have the opportunity to kill Widmore and chose not to?) -- if this is true, why could Ben kill Widmore during the final episode?

  18. #98
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    I am going to miss this show. I thought that the ending was incredibly well done - lots of answers...but not TOO many. Just enough to make you think/wonder some more. Wasn't that one of the best things about Lost, that it made you THINK??

    Quote Originally Posted by Udaman View Post
    Whew.

    I don't quite know what to think. I LOVED the episode up until the last 10 minutes. Before that (especially at about the 1 hour mark), I was saying, "Wow - so much is happening, how is this going to last 2 1/2 hours?").

    And then the end occurred.....and we find out they are in Purgatory...clinging to their old lives and old haunts until they reach enlightenment and can move on. In the final scene in the church I kept thinking, "Why does this remind me of Titanic?"

    So, random thoughts/likes/dislikes

    1) There were some tremendous scenes in this. Jin and Sun (and Juliet as their doctor), and suddenly understanding, and speaking English. Just great. Sawyer and Juliet - amazing. Hurley in just about every scene he was in. Ditto for Desmond.

    2) Obviously the sideways world was Purgatory....and if you discard the cheesy factor of that (which, admittedly, is tough), and step back and look at the full season, it not only makes sense with what the Producers/Writers were doing, they did a pretty damn good job of it. Sawyer was a cop - not a con-man - still trying to find the person who ruined his life, but realizing that wasn't important. Locke was a person who realized that walking wasn't as important as having love. Hurley had good luck. Kate was desperately seeking redemption. Charlie as well. Claire wanted to keep her child. Jin and Sun were tired of always striving for the support of their parents. And some weren't ready for redemption yet (Ben, even with enlightenment), Ana Lucia - who still was crooked. They did a good job pulling that together. I must admit.

    3) So, what was the island? I'm torn here. As someone else said, it could be real (with time travel, planes crashing, electromagnetism, bright lights, people who can't die, etc, etc)....or it could also have been some kind of purgatory. I must admit, that latter seems more likely. Some kind of gateway between life and Purgatory. That would explain the "lists" and people getting taken away after reaching certain points (i.e. Ecko). It would explain why Christian's casket was empty. It would explain why he showed up with Michael on the boat before it exploded. It would explain why you always arrived on the island unconscious - either via plane or sub. It would really explain everything, since none of it was truly real. Of course, we also know that the producers were doing things as they went along, kind of making things up....so maybe they don't know, or, more likely, it changed as they went along. But I think deep down they always knew this was about dying and moving on....and I bet they start hinting that the island wasn't truly real.

    4) Things I really liked: Hurley as #1 and Ben as #2 (and mentioning that at the end, which means they lived that way for a while). Ben saying, "Those were Jacob's rules." (again, I think this gives credence to the island as some kind of transition place between life and death. Jacob brought the Black Rock there because he could. Flocke wanted off because he wanted to cheat death. JMHO.). Kate and Jack - they pulled that acting off. Seeing Penny.

    5) Things I loved. Hurley and "He's worse than Yoda." Sawyer with lots of Sawyerisms (blondie, tubby, etc). Miles - he was like me - always pretty confused, but going along for the ride. Plus he uses tape to fix things.

    6) Things I disliked. Frank not being dead...yeah, they needed a pilot, but how could he have gotten off that sub (unless, of course, the island was never real)? No Ecko at the end (100% on the actor, but boy I would have liked to have seen him). The banter between Jack and his dad (yawn).

    7) Thing I absolutely HATED. That Sayid was with Shannon. By far the worst part of this episode for me. Their love interest was way forced in Season 1, and didn't last long (what, a few days - maybe a week). And she's his constant? It should have been Nadia. In fact, in Purgatory he was dealing with his struggle to have her, to see her in an imperfect relationship and know that she could and should be with him - the person who truly loves her. This one single fact almost ruined the episode for me. Almost.

    Overall, I liked it. I think they were all dead the entire time, and this was about redemption - with lots of messed up things thrown in, and some B.S. by the producers as they went along. But it was tremendous acting, and a great mystery, and they did a pretty damn good job wrapping it all up, all things considered.

    Jack, Kate, Locke, Ben, Sawyer, Hurley, Juliet, Jin, Sun, Charlie, Desmond, Penny, Claire, Sayid, Richard, Rose, Bernard...thanks for being a part of my life. You will be missed.

    Good summary Udaman. I generally agree. I don't think there was any intent by the writers to explain all the answers - in fact quite the opposite. But isn't that more fun anyway?? (BTW, I didn't mind Sayid was with Shannon - for his sake, as he'd become quite the sympathetic character and "deserved" to find love/happiness/fulfillment.) Loved the Yoda line - soooo Hurley. I had a feeling that he'd be a terrific "caretaker." Seemed fitting in the end.

    In the end I was very sad to see it go away. Like finishing and setting down a great, engrossing novel. You put it down after the last page, and ....just for moment, wonder..... "OK, what now?"




    P.S. Poor Michael, still back there amidst the trees, whispering at people... Unable to leave.
    Last edited by -bdbd; 05-26-2010 at 02:51 AM.
    -BDBD

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    In the end I was very sad to see it go away. Like finishing and setting down a great, engrossing novel. You put it down after the last page, and ....just for moment, wonder..... "OK, what now?"

    Start watching Fringe. I am serious. The past half-dozen episodes at the end of season two have been amazing and really cool. It is X-Files with better storylines.

    You can watch the entire show on-line (I think) and are only 2 seasons behind... I could even tell you which episodes are less essential to the mythology so you could skip them.

    -Jason "everyone needs to do this!" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Start watching Fringe. I am serious. The past half-dozen episodes at the end of season two have been amazing and really cool. It is X-Files with better storylines.

    You can watch the entire show on-line (I think) and are only 2 seasons behind... I could even tell you which episodes are less essential to the mythology so you could skip them.

    -Jason "everyone needs to do this!" Evans
    Yeah, the last few episodes have been good. I liked most of the first season but early this season they started to lose me. I thought I was out, but they pulled me back in!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
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    By feldspar in forum Off Topic
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    Last Post: 03-08-2007, 12:26 AM

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