Proper grammar and spelling on a Duke board

[Duke Mom]

Ahh how the schoolmarm nit-
picks apart the words of fast fingered wit
propagated by new generation wordsmiths.
"it's about HOW you play the game"
says the man who wrote rule-book.

but he is right, in his wrote stricture. because
like basketball it's all about the style of play.
but whether posts become properly formed adagio thrusts
or the allegro con brio quickly spit ripostes
forcing tempo and topic becomes the game.

the answer lies in basketball too,
it's about how far you can push the rules.
grabbing, holding, and elbows...hack-a-shaq may
be within the law, but is it within the spirit of the rules?
so in your shane battier defense of grammatical divine law

remember this full-throated censure of written orthodoxy
in message board round-ball.

Wonderful verse! This bear has talent!

[Lord Ash]

I think it's just as important that we now have this incredible sanctuary where our disgruntled members can discuss the innateness of our younger posters.

I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with age...

[Jarhead]

y'all must hate me....i'm interweb bred as far as typing and punctuation, but my grammaw is not that bad...i do try to correct the horrendous mistakes, but i'm not going to lose sleep over my inability to be a great typist... or my propensity for using interweb slang...






it's a MESSAGE board folks...

It's also a means of communication and if one cannot be understood, that is not communication.

My sentiments, exactly.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with age...

I disagree. I would say there is a definite correlation between ones age and ones willingness to get worked up over spelling or gramatical errors on an internet sports fan site.

For some people, attention to detail doesn't come as easy. For others, they don't care to read over something before they submit their reply in every mundane instance, or maybe they had to finish up the post in 10 seconds because they had something more important to do. Some people are just crappy typers and it takes them forever to perform a complicated meneuver like pressing the shift key with their pinky finger while hitting a different letter.

My generation uses Sype, G-Chat, and Facebook chat on a daily basis while having 17 other windows open with 17 different things going on. Surprisingly (?) there is a lot of quick back and forth with no use of the shift key, hyphens, and some people even forget to use commas. I completely understand if someone doesn't treat an internet sports fan forum as a place where gramatic accuracy is essential.

Really, I could care less if someone forgets spells it Schmeyer or Sheyer as long as I know who they're talking about. They probably know and didn't care to check it. I see no problem in having a mix of people that care, and people that don't.


I personally get a little PO'd whenever I'm reading through a post and see


don't you mean scheyer

then the next post

You mean, "Don't you mean Scheyer?"

the next

Oh sorry guys for not being perfect.

the next

Well, if you must know, we're not asking you to be perfect, what we're asking is that you simply etc.......

Before you know it, your half way down the page and you don't even care to see where the rest of the forum is going.

My point is that to some, the ones doing the complaining (even while using pretentious smiley faces) are taking just as much away if not more from the flow and quality of conversation going on. It really puts a hamper on my being able to do 17 things at once efficiently.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

It really puts a hamper on my being able to do 17 things at once efficiently.

Slow down, you move too fast, you've got to make the morning last
Just kickin' down the cobble-stones, lookin' for fun and feelin' groovy

[jimsumner]

Some of us value DBR enough not to post while doing 17 other things.

And, I don't think that's age-specific.

[hedevil]

I would like to think that I value DBR as much as the next person. But this topic seems to be a bit over the top. I wonder why so many people think of Duke fans as being a bit snobby, arrogant, above others, etc...
Let me get this straight. This board wouldn't value the contributions to this board if they were coming from, say, a friend of a recruit who we happen to be recruiting, or a Duke fan who loves Duke just as much as the next person, if that particular individual didn't happen to use correct grammer and pronunciation?
I do the best I can to get my point across, although (as you can probably tell) I am not a master of the arts being discussed. However let me be clear, that doesn't make anyone here a more loyal nor better fan than I. If I seem to be going a bit overboard here, then I guess I came to the right place (this thread) for that.
Keep in mind that many of the recruits that we pursue are in fact of the twitter, texting, facebook, etc.. generation. Maybe some of them are good enough to play for "Duke basketball", but not good enough for the DBR. Is that the message we're trying to send here?

[Indoor66]

I would like to think that I value DBR as much as the next person. But this topic seems to be a bit over the top. I wonder why so many people think of Duke fans as being a bit snobby, arrogant, above others, etc...
Let me get this straight. This board wouldn't value the contributions to this board if they were coming from, say, a friend of a recruit who we happen to be recruiting, or a Duke fan who loves Duke just as much as the next person, if that particular individual didn't happen to use correct grammer and pronunciation?
I do the best I can to get my point across, although (as you can probably tell) I am not a master of the arts being discussed. However let me be clear, that doesn't make anyone here a more loyal nor better fan than I. If I seem to be going a bit overboard here, then I guess I came to the right place (this thread) for that.
Keep in mind that many of the recruits that we pursue are in fact of the twitter, texting, facebook, etc.. generation. Maybe some of them are good enough to play for "Duke basketball", but not good enough for the DBR. Is that the message we're trying to send here?

This is not Facebook or a twitter account or sending a text message. It is a board dedicated to discussing Duke Basketball and other Duke sports. Though has no official association with the University, it is inhabited mostly by Duke alumnus and alumna and serious Duke fans. In that group are many very bright and thoughtful people.

I think that someone contributing to this board should have enough self respect and respect for others to attempt to communicate using proper grammar, spelling and minimal abbreviations. For me, I can accept errors if the post reflects an effort to be precise.

We expect Duke Basketball players to be precise, accurate and give the highest effort. Why can we not expect the same of ourselves and others posting on this board? Sloppy presentation often reflects sloppy thought and a lack of effort. My opinion is that we should all strive to present in the best manner possible. Some will do better than others and that is OK. It is the slovenly posts that are effectively unreadable or can only be read with difficulty that is an issue with me. To me that is inconsiderate to me and my fellow posters.

[Jarhead]

This is not Facebook or a twitter account or sending a text message. It is a board dedicated to discussing Duke Basketball and other Duke sports. Though has no official association with the University, it is inhabited mostly by Duke alumnus and alumna and serious Duke fans. In that group are many very bright and thoughtful people.

I think that someone contributing to this board should have enough self respect and respect for others to attempt to communicate using proper grammar, spelling and minimal abbreviations. For me, I can accept errors if the post reflects an effort to be precise.

We expect Duke Basketball players to be precise, accurate and give the highest effort. Why can we not expect the same of ourselves and others posting on this board? Sloppy presentation often reflects sloppy thought and a lack of effort. My opinion is that we should all strive to present in the best manner possible. Some will do better than others and that is OK. It is the slovenly posts that are effectively unreadable or can only be read with difficulty that is an issue with me. To me that is inconsiderate to me and my fellow posters.

I agree with much of what you say, Indoor, and I often find such loose grammar and word selection that a passage requires slow reading to grasp the meaning of the writer. I do accept, however, that not everybody is adept at the use of the English language. That's okay, but what isn't okay is the deliberate misuse of the language because of laziness. It all started with email and news groups, and now it has morphed into a twitter and texting world in which people communicate in a new code language that restricts the very art of communication.

What my criticism targets is that laziness that I mentioned. I make a habit of rereading everything I post here before I submit it. I try to correct all of my typos, and I use spell check running in the background to catch most of my spelling errors. The rereading also corrects some of the stupidest statements anybody could make. I don't catch them all, though. My grammar used to be impeccable, but I have long forgotten most of the rules. What I rely on is how understandable my written words are. I have deleted many posts before submitting them, because I was not happy with the meaning I was trying to convey.

As you post, look down the page and you see two buttons. One is to submit your post, and the other is to preview your post. You should preview your post if you compose more than a few sentences. That is a benefit you pass on to all of us who hang out here. Let's not be a forum that excludes people because of weak writing styles. Personally, I like that we have kids and folks from all walks of life visiting here every day. On the other hand, if you get after people who try to write properly and fail to meet your standards, just assume that they are trying their best.

[hedevil]

I agree with pretty much all you said. I do think that everyone should make an effort to try their best to communicate. I guess I don't take it so personal if someone expresses themselves poorly, granted that they at least try. I live in a city where the population is majority hispanic (myself not included). I'm used to hearing accents and poor English, however, I don't feel offended by it, nor would I expect their (anyone with poor english skills) grammer or pronunciation to significantly improve while being on the computer. Who am I, or you for that matter, to judge the next persons speech or communication skills? If a person is a loyal duke fan on this board, that is enough for me.

Please tell me how, by computer, you can distinguish between someone trying their absolute hardest to be understood and "proper", or whether they are slacking in effort? Commas, capitals, quotations, etc... etc...? I could easily argue that you can't.

What does serious Duke fans mean?

[Indoor66]

What does serious Duke fans mean?

Non-band wagon types.

[brevity]

What does serious Duke fans mean?

Duke fans who are serious... about everything.

I'm a stickler for grammar and spelling, but I let my standards for others slide a bit here. If someone can't complete a sentence but still makes a valid point, I retain the idea, rather than how it was communicated. But if a post is nonsensical -- especially one that opens a new thread that covers well-established ground -- I reserve the right to give its writer hell.

Carry on, but it may be more productive to limit these kinds of complaints to this thread. Except for when a Duke player's name is misspelled: those offenders should be called out at all times.

[DevilHorns]

This is not an elementary school. Just because someone likes to assume the teacher role and be particular for certain spelling/grammar issues doesn't mean everyone has to swing right in line and assume the role of a booger-eating third grader.

This is a message board. Everyone on the board has equal rights to post. No individual poster should have any right to try and dictate how others post.

[Redacted by mods]

I am incredibly upset right now. I am considering leaving this forum for good.

[allenmurray]

Courtesy is what spelling, grammer, capitalization, etc. go to for me. In a short post, twitter/IM/internet langauge is fine. But in a lengthy post it makes things difficult to read. That isn't a generaltional, grammatical, or status issue - it is a courtesy issue.

A three sentence post - no big deal. But 700 words with no regards for standard writing conventions makes for difficult reading - which translates into a hidden message of "I really don't care about my reader".

[allenmurray]

This is a message board. Everyone on the board has equal rights to post. No individual poster should have any right to try and dictate how others post.

Actually you are right that it is a message board. But you are wrong about "everyone having an equal right to post". It is privately owned and we are guests of the owners. No matter how much anyone tires to make that prettier - it is what it is. You have as much right to be here as the owners give you. They have always reserved the right to limit access, edit posts, ban people, etc. Democracy it ain't, and the first amendment does not apply to privately owned sites.

[cspan37421]

This is not an elementary school.
...

I am incredibly upset right now. I am considering leaving this forum for good.

If you cannot stand to be corrected, internet message boards may not be the place for you.

It seems to me that grammar that doesn't meet elementary school standards reflects badly on Duke by association. So I think constructive criticism is a net positive for Duke and for ourselves - we all might learn something, or at least be reminded of that which we have forgotten. Not all mistakes are as obvious as lose - loose. Affect vs. effect trips up many people, and even some very highly educated people use insure when they mean ensure.

As a related aside, I read an article on the Magic game today from the Orlando Sentinel. The writer detailed a near-confrontation between Jason Williams and a member of the media, who was crowding him around his locker. The writer went on to say that someone from the Magic stepped in to "diffuse" the situation.

Grammar is becoming a free-for-all! But it can evolve. To wit, in a Friends episode from long ago, IIRC, Joey has described something as "mind-bottling." After being questioned, "Don't you mean mind-boggling?", he replies something like, "It's like when your thoughts are all bottled up and they can't get out." That's not a bad case for evolving language! But some of the stuff here isn't that close of a call, IMO.

[Duke Mom]

This is not an elementary school. Just because someone likes to assume the teacher role and be particular for certain spelling/grammar issues doesn't mean everyone has to swing right in line and assume the role of a booger-eating third grader.

This is a message board. Everyone on the board has equal rights to post. No individual poster should have any right to try and dictate how others post.

[Redacted by mods]

I am incredibly upset right now. I am considering leaving this forum for good.

Take a deeeep breath...

[Comment on redacted quote removed]

There seem to be two distinct camps on the "how to properly post" issue. Those who feel it is very important to use proper spelling, grammar, etc. (funny, when you catch spelling errors/typos in some of those posts) and those who feel it is not a critical issue. And, as is the case with most conversations, the voices who feel most strongly about the issue will speak the loudest (yes, I did it...I began this sentence with "and").

You have more important things to worry about, like learning how to save lives and becoming a great doctor (read your profile). Anyone who gets accepted to Hopkins Medical School has to be a pretty smart cookie. Allow your sense of humor to put this into perspective. If nothing else, it's a good story to tell.

Hope you continue to enjoy DBR. I'm new here, and so far, it's been a fun place. We all have to play by DBR's rules of conduct, perhaps some of those need to be more clearly enunciated.

[devil84]

Per our rules:

Some discussions with a long history of inflaming the board will be stopped early. The moderators have our full support. Infractions imposed by moderators are final and not subject to debate on the public boards.

A number of posts in this thread were deleted or edited due to discussion of individual infractions. We will not debate whether infractions are or are not necessary for individual posts.

The rule that was being discussed is:

Needless Posting - For posts wholly without redeeming qualities that don't rise to a more serious infraction. Think before you post. Includes rampant stupidity.

Generally speaking, one word posts fall into this category. Word length of the post is not the only criterion, however.

Also in the rules:

If you wish to bring a post to the attention of the moderators, click the small triangle in the upper, right corner of the questionable post (float your mouse above it to see "report post").

The topic of this thread is about proper grammar and spelling on this board. Let's return to the topic at hand.

[DukeUsul]

Someone suggested that mods delete or infract posts that have poor grammar or spelling? Is anyone forgetting that Mr. Beard is a mod here (Throaty to his friends). I'd just love to see him come in here and knock some of the lingustic imperialists off their high horses.



"Ever since email and the Internet people have become lazy with their grammar."

I'd like to see him tear that one to shreds.

[4decadedukie]

I know this discussion started on the main board, but I figured it might help to divert it away from the basketball section and into the off topic section?

Call me a senior member or whathaveyou (heh... senior member) but I cannot STAND when an internet forum is full of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and shorthanded text-type. It does not take any longer to write properly, and it CERTAINLY should not take any sort of extra mental effort to do so. Writing in the English language should simply be natural. I hate how dumbed-down a forum can look when it is full of mistakes and short cuts, and honestly I feel like a poorly written post (or several) or some cut-n-pasted "COOL STORY BRO!" pictures not only bring the level of discourse down, but encourage further thoughtless posting in the future.

Call me snobby if you like, but the fact that this is a Duke forum simply enforces my expectations for the members to use their native language (when it is, indeed, their native language) properly.

Extremely well stated, Lord Ash, I simply could not agree more. We display our intellect both by the thoughts we post and by the fluency with which they are written.