USA Basketball 2010 World Championships Discussion

[DukieBoy]

Dude, you've GOT to start paying attention. Rondo declined his invitation, as I posted in response to DallasDevil and I have now responded to you THREE times that Roy is not on the roster.

LOOK AT THE ROSTER DUUUUUDDDDEEE

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

Well I was talking more about the 2012 Olympics. That isn't the name of the thread either, so I don't really have an excuse. I didn't look at the roster for the 2010s.

[SilkyJ]

Well I was talking more about the 2012 Olympics. That isn't the name of the thread either, so I don't really have an excuse. I didn't look at the roster for the 2010s.

Well, the 2012 team will be tied to the 2010 team, sort of.

If you go to the webpage you will actually see that the roster is called the 2010-2012 roster. Much like the last go round, K and Colangelo are insisting on a 3 year commitment from the players in order to foster continuity, camaraderie, chemistry, etc. etc.

Now there are guys who can certainly be added to the list later in 2010/2011 especially as younger guys develop and whatnot (John Wall perhaps?), but for the most part those involved with the program now are the ones that will be involved later. Rondo and Roy are not amongst those players.

Here's some more color on Roy:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...usa/index.html
http://usahoopsnews.blogspot.com/201...-for-2012.html

[A-Tex Devil]

I've just sort of skimmed this thread, but I think the US is going to up the ante on the rest of the world in the next few years of the competition, and it's because of 1 player -- Kevin Durant.

KD was closer than most admit to making the Olympic team 2 years ago with stellar workouts in the summer. He has a game that is perfectly molded to the international style of play.

Barring injury or other deux es machina with his career, I think he has a chance (a chance) to be the greatest offensive weapon in the history of the NBA. (I'm not sure he'll ever be there defensively to put him with a Kobe/LeBron/Jordan, but he's only 21. We'll see.)

The issue is that he and Carmelo pretty much play the same position. And Carmelo has proven to be the USA's best offensive player in the international circuit. If K can figure out a way for them to both be on the floor without causing defensive lapses, that would be ideal, and pretty much unstoppable.

[Big Pappa]

I've just sort of skimmed this thread, but I think the US is going to up the ante on the rest of the world in the next few years of the competition, and it's because of 1 player -- Kevin Durant.

KD was closer than most admit to making the Olympic team 2 years ago with stellar workouts in the summer. He has a game that is perfectly molded to the international style of play.

Barring injury or other deux es machina with his career, I think he has a chance (a chance) to be the greatest offensive weapon in the history of the NBA. (I'm not sure he'll ever be there defensively to put him with a Kobe/LeBron/Jordan, but he's only 21. We'll see.)

The issue is that he and Carmelo pretty much play the same position. And Carmelo has proven to be the USA's best offensive player in the international circuit. If K can figure out a way for them to both be on the floor without causing defensive lapses, that would be ideal, and pretty much unstoppable.

I agree. It's also nice to see another Dukie in the ATX.

To get them both on the floor I could see the starting lineup looking like this:

Deron Williams
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Lebron James
Dwight Howard

[greybeard]

I agree with most of the points in your post but not this one. I agree that we could field the most talented team but not necessarily the best one. IMO there is no way a team of NBA all-stars thrown together could roll through a seasoned and close-knit group from another country - like Spain.

As Duke fans, we all know the value of having a group of guys who play hard, together, and that are well coached. Hard work and some talent usually can outway some work and lots of talent (2010 - Kentucky and Duke). I don't think that the international rules offset the importance of working really hard and playing together, even if the team from the other country is less talented.

You might be right but I don't think so. The reason all the practicing is necessary because guys get exposed on the floor as not knowing when they are playing at disadvantage or playing with advantage based upon how players are deployed because of the different geometry and rules.

You play the game you know and your mind is like a computer; you size up the game based upon milisecond changes and react in slight ways accordingly. That's what the practice is needed for.

Every pro knows the Triangle because they have either played it or had to defend it and it happens to be the best offense ever devised, especially if you have real talent. You let LeBron, Kobe, Melo, Bosh, Boozer, Brand, to name a few play at the elbow where MJ and Pippen, and now Kobe, Gasol, and Lamar have ruled, and the tournament is over.

Defenses, in our game, not the international one, please; a month is not enough time for these guys to making the game sing. Come on.

[Big Pappa]

Every pro knows the Triangle because they have either played it or had to defend it and it happens to be the best offense ever devised, especially if you have real talent. You let LeBron, Kobe, Melo, Bosh, Boozer, Brand, to name a few play at the elbow where MJ and Pippen, and now Kobe, Gasol, and Lamar have ruled, and the tournament is over.

I respect what you are saying about the international rules and you may be right about domination for the US if we changed the rules. If the other countries had to play our game and didn't practice much (like we did in 2004) I think we would surely dominate them. I just believe that without practice we would be right back to where we were in 04'.

Interestingly enough, I saw a special about the 2010 Lakers tonight on ESPN and a large part of it was about Ron Artest's addition. A large part of that was about his struggles to learn the Triangle offense, even after defending it (very well I would add) many times. I know Ron may not be the best example, but your comment brought it to mind.

[SilkyJ]

Bump!

As Airowe's blog mentions, and as the USA basketball site confirms, we now have a list of confirmed players for the USA basketball training camp, which starts Monday.

Three things I would point out: 1) ALL of the main players from the 2008 gold medal team are absent: Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Melo, Howard, Paul and Williams are all not on the confirmed list (neither is Kidd, but he's not on the larger roster). Tayshaun Prince and Carlos Boozer were on that team and are also missing, despite being on the larger roster.

2) This is going to be a VERY young team, which is partially a consequence of point #1.

3) Rondo has been added to this list, and yes I'm giving this its own "point." Previously, Rondo had declined this invitation, but after his performance in this playoffs I would bet Colangelo put the full court press on to get him. He's not a great shooter, which is usually at a premium in international competition as folks are known to use lots of zone, but obviously he's a tremendous talent and will play a lot of minutes for team USA for years to come. The PG battle b/w him, Paul and Williams come 2011 and 2012 will be tremendous.

Other notable absentees who are on the larger roster but who are not attending, include: Lamarcus Aldridge and Al Jefferson, both of whom would have good shots at making this and/or later teams.

Anyway, its definitely a younger group with the exception of a few players like Amare, Chandler and Billups, so maybe its by design that none of the players are returning? I'm sure we'll find out the reasons for having ZERO returning members of the gold medal team whenever K and Colangelo have their next presser, but it certainly wont be a bad thing to get some of these younger guys more deeply integrated into the program.

Below are all 21 players organized into 3 categories that I think somewhat define what the coaches will look at when picking the roster: PGs, Post players, and the multitude of Wings. (As a note, I am including combo guards like Steph Curry in the PG category and while Mayo and Gordon could go there I put them in the Wings category...my reasoning: you wouldn't put DWade in the PG category, you'd call him a wing since he was always in the game with either Kidd, Paul or Williams during the last run. Decent reasoning in my mind. I don't think Mayo or Gordon would ever be the primary PG, not when guys like Billups, Rondo or even Rose/Curry are around.)

PGs
Chauncey Billups
Stephen Curry
Rajon Rondo
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook

Wings
Kevin Durant
Tyreke Evans
Rudy Gay
Eric Gordon
Danny Granger
Jeff Green
Andre Iguodala
O.J. Mayo
Lamar Odom
Gerald Wallace

Posts
Tyson Chandler
Amar’e Stoudemire
David Lee
Brook Lopez
Robin Lopez
Kevin Love

From this list, I would think the LOCKS are
Rondo, Durant, and Amare, with Billups and Chandler basically locks b/c they've been in the program and to the FIBAs before. Not to mention they would provide a veteran presence on what is likely to be a very young squad.

So thats 2 PGs, 1 Wing, 2 post players. So you would imagine out of the 7 remaining spots, there would be 1 more PG and Post each, and 5 wings, some of the more SG types (ala Iguodala), some more SF/PF types (ala Odom) and some more pure 3s (ala Granger). This composition would exactly mirror the 2008 lineup of 3 PGs, 3 Posts, 6 wings. Here's my prediction:

PGs: Rondo, Billups, (+1)
+1 = Curry.
Runner-up: Rose.
By the end of the year last year, Curry was the ROY and his shooting will be valued in international arena. Rose is more of a pure PG and can better handle the physicality of international game, but with 2 proven, pure PGs already on the team (in my scenario), I think Curry makes more sense. Westbrook is solid, but can't shoot, so I think he is out of the running here. Rose's game is similar, but basically better.

Posts: Amar'e, Chandler, (+1)
+1 = Brook Lopez.
Runner-up: David Lee.
Sleeper: Kevin Love.
We know that Amar'e can't guard Centers, and with Chandler as the only pure Center, I think the staff goes with "need" here and gets another pure Center. That takes the "undersized" centers like Lee and Love out of contention, in my mind. Brook Lopez is already a high quality NBA 7-footer (he averaged 18 and 9 last year and 1.7 blocks...yes it was on the nets) and so he'd already be in the discussion regardless of what the "need" for the team was down low. I do like Lee and Love though, and both could be in contention, perhaps at the expense of one of those many Wing spots. K will love Lee's hustle and motor, and Love is obviously just an all-around talent and can definitely hit the boards.

Wings: Durant (+5)

1. Granger
2. Mayo
3. Iguodala
4. Odom
5. Gerald Wallace

In contention: Rudy Gay.
I won't rationalize all these selections, but I wanted a mix of good shooters, athleticism (especially for defense) and some size and versatility. Mayo and Granger can come in and extend the D with shooting, Iguodala and Wallace are extremely athletic and can lock down multiple positions, and Odom adds some extra size and versatility. Gay is in the mix here, but his defense may hurt him.

Starting lineup prediction:
PG: Rondo
SG: Granger
SF: Durant
PF: Amar'e
C: Lopez

Here's what I put before regarding the 7 reserve positions, before we knew the exact players in the running...pretty similar predictions, I guess I'm just sticking to my guns.

PGs:

1. Paul
2. Rose/Billups (with Westbrook and Curry in the mix)

Centers:

1. Amare
2. Jefferson (with Lopez, Aldridge, and Perkins in the mix)

Wing Players: This is the toughest to project in my mind

1. Granger (3 point specialist/6th man. While the team has more than adequate 3 point shooters in Bryant, Durant, Melo and Williams, Coach K saw the need for a 3 point specialist during his previous run so I'd imagine they'd have one again. Granger is probably the best guy on the roster to fill this spot, though he's not Michael Redd good...I expect them to find someone by 2012 who is better suited for the role, though heck granger is a very good shooter who averaged 25ppg the last 2 seasons so even if they do find someone better, he could still very well be on the team, perhaps filling the next role...)
2. Gay (scorer. complete offensive weapon who can play 2-4 if needed)
3. Wallace (athletic defender who can guard multiple positions)

Others I think could be in the mix: Andre Igoudala, OJ Mayo, Lamar Odom

[airowe]

Great post SilkyJ. I would say that three-point specialist you were tabbing for Granger would probably end up being a Seth Curry type, but I don't know if has the upper body strength at this point to handle being pushed around in international play. I agree it would more likely be someone of Granger's size, at least at this point in Curry's development.

While I would have liked to have seen more of a commitment from the returning Olympians, I think the fact that there is a whole new pool of talent to select from, and work with during the World Championships will eventually benefit not just the players themselves, but the Olympic Basketball program as an entity. They will get to work with the coaches for all of next week and then whoever is picked for the team will get valuable international experience as well.

We'll try to find out more about the reasoning for the returnees not joining the team for the World Championships as we cover the Training Camp this week...

[SilkyJ]

Great post SilkyJ. I would say that three-point specialist you were tabbing for Granger would probably end up being a Seth Curry type, but I don't know if has the upper body strength at this point to handle being pushed around in international play. I agree it would more likely be someone of Granger's size, at least at this point in Curry's development.

While I would have liked to have seen more of a commitment from the returning Olympians, I think the fact that there is a whole new pool of talent to select from, and work with during the World Championships will eventually benefit not just the players themselves, but the Olympic Basketball program as an entity. They will get to work with the coaches for all of next week and then whoever is picked for the team will get valuable international experience as well.

We'll try to find out more about the reasoning for the returnees not joining the team for the World Championships as we cover the Training Camp this week...

Thanks, airowe. I agree that Granger isn't the ideal guy for the 3 point specialist...unfortunately, no one really is beside Curry and as you point out he's a little undersized or understrengthed...yes I just made up that word. Mayo can also shoot the rock: he averaged 38% as a rookie and in his 2nd year from deep, so he's no slouch...though he's also no Michael Redd, but b/w him, granger, curry and even billups and durant we have some solid shooters out there. Still, I would like to see one specialist to bring in a really punish the zone. Don't be surprised if this comes up in some tight games where we are shooting poorly.

Will also be very interested to read your coverage, particularly regarding the lack of returnees. Surely there must be something we are missing since literally all of the guys from '08 aren't coming. I recall Coach K saying that part of his reason for re-upping was that guys like Bron, Kobe, and Howard all re-upped as well for the full 3 yr commitment. He also said this summer would be tough with free agency, but thats basically over at this point so there must be some other explanation.

[Billy Dat]

I am glad to see there are others as excited about the World Championships as I am. Here are my predictions:

Billups, Rondo, Rose, Curry
Durant, Gay, Odom, Granger
Amare, Lopez, Love, Lee

I think Billups is a lock because K has such strong belief in veteran leadership. As such, Billups is in the Kidd role. I think Amare and Odom are on for similar reasons, especially since both have the international experience.

In the backcourt, I am going with both Rose and Rondo even though both can't really shoot. But, I think everything else they bring is key. I added Curry for the shooting alone.

Up front, I am going size (Lopez), rebounding (Lee) and the guy who is most like an international big (Love). Chandler's equity with the team may bump him up, though. If so, I think it's over Lee.

For wings, I am going with the obvious (Durant) and the experience (Odom). I am going with Granger and Gay because I think Granger is the best combo of defense and scoring of the remaining guys, and I think Gay made a huge impression on the Team USA staff last summer at the mini camp. I think that will carry over.

I can't wait for next week, and I am going to the game against Paris in NYC in August!!!

[tbyers11]

I'm sure we'll find out the reasons for having ZERO returning members of the gold medal team whenever K and Colangelo have their next presser, but it certainly wont be a bad thing to get some of these younger guys more deeply integrated into the program.

Here is an article in which Colangelo briefly gets into the reasons (free agency, injuries) why none of the 2008 Olympic team will be on this team.

I find this part of the article interesting

Colangelo had previously said anyone declining an invitation without a legitimate reason would be at risk to be excluded from the 2012 Olympics in London. He said Sunday none of these players will be penalized.

“There are no issues here with anyone,” Colangelo said. “Everyone has to take care of their business, families and to get healthy. All our [Olympic] guys were touched by all of that.”

To me not all of these players excuses are super-legitimate but I think that USA basketball realized that they would have to give the biggest names some summer time off or they might not get them back for 2012.

I think having a whole new group will be good to see which players will be on the 2012 team with the core (Howard, Wade, Kobe, LeBron, Paul, Williams, Anthony) that will certainly be on the team.

[SilkyJ]

I am glad to see there are others as excited about the World Championships as I am. Here are my predictions:

Billups, Rondo, Rose, Curry
Durant, Gay, Odom, Granger
Amare, Lopez, Love, Lee

I think Billups is a lock because K has such strong belief in veteran leadership. As such, Billups is in the Kidd role. I think Amare and Odom are on for similar reasons, especially since both have the international experience.

In the backcourt, I am going with both Rose and Rondo even though both can't really shoot. But, I think everything else they bring is key. I added Curry for the shooting alone.

Up front, I am going size (Lopez), rebounding (Lee) and the guy who is most like an international big (Love). Chandler's equity with the team may bump him up, though. If so, I think it's over Lee.

For wings, I am going with the obvious (Durant) and the experience (Odom). I am going with Granger and Gay because I think Granger is the best combo of defense and scoring of the remaining guys, and I think Gay made a huge impression on the Team USA staff last summer at the mini camp. I think that will carry over.

I can't wait for next week, and I am going to the game against Paris in NYC in August!!!

I'm definitely pumped! I like your picks and your reasoning. Very similar to mine. I basically picked G.Wallace over Lee b/c at 6'7/220 he still averaged 9rpg so he can bring the rebounding buts some more athleticism/versatility and defense. He can guard 2-4 basically. I also went with Chandler over Love b/c of experience, and Mayo over Gay b/c of shooting, though I could definitely see Gay winning that battle.

You put 4 PGs in there, so basically put in Rose and took out Iguodala...could happen, but I'm not sure we need 3 PGs and and a combo guard. I think we'd rather have another athletic defender out of the wing than another PG who won't play very much. There's not enough minutes for Billups, Rondo, Rose and Curry.

[Billy Dat]

As for why none of the 2008ers are coming...I think it's very basic. They gave up 3 straight summers from 2006-2008 and they don't want to put too many additional miles on the tires. They all consider the Olympics a bigger deal than the Worlds, and I bet they all want to play in 2012.

In the case of Lebron, Wade and Bosh, they're focus is squarely on winning an NBA title and I bet they wanted to focus on that. Don't be surprised if Riley got in their ear about that, too. Kobe needs surgery, Paul is coming off an injury, Prince is no spring chicken, Boozer is headed for a new team, Redd is still banged up, etc. But, a lot of NBA guys aren't playing for their countries...Kirilinko, Pau Gasol, etc.

Bottom line, I think the US is better off long term getting some new blood out there. I think everyone will agree that Team USA participation improves these guys' games tremendously, especially in the confidence department. I think whomever makes the team will improve dramatically and they'll be ready to take it to the guys who decided to skip this summer during the 2010/11 NBA season.

[Class of '94]

Here is an article in which Colangelo briefly gets into the reasons (free agency, injuries) why none of the 2008 Olympic team will be on this team.

I find this part of the article interesting


To me not all of these players excuses are super-legitimate but I think that USA basketball realized that they would have to give the biggest names some summer time off or they might not get them back for 2012.

I think having a whole new group will be good to see which players will be on the 2012 team with the core (Howard, Wade, Kobe, LeBron, Paul, Williams, Anthony) that will certainly be on the team.

Personally, I think it's kind of a poor reflection on most of the Olympians that are not playing in the Worlds. The only people that know of that have a legtimate injury excuse is Kobe and possibly Chris Paul (who was hurt in the regular season). I don't remember hearing anything about Deron being hurt; but he might have had off-season surgery. I know Melo had his wedding and is on his honeymoon. But Howard, Lebron, Wade, Bosh and the other guys have not excuses. I wished they would have stepped up to help this team since none of them won a gold medal at a World championship; but I agree that it will be a fantastic experience for the guys that will be competing.

And btw, I am not ready to say that KD will be the greatest offensive player in the world. He's good; but he doesn't (as of now) have the shake and bake drive and shoot moves or the post-up game that Kobe or D-Wade have. Not saying it can't happen but don't see right now.

[SilkyJ]

Bottom line, I think the US is better off long term getting some new blood out there.

Totally agree with this part. Bron, Melo, Wade, etc. are all all-stars, have all played together, and have all played against int'l competition at this point. They will come in and be fine. Getting these younger guys integrated makes a lot of sense.

And I agree with you about giving up prior summers and addt'l mileage, etc. but I was under the impression that this was a 3 yr commitment. Not a big deal if they come in for 2011 and then the olympics in 2012, (as they say, 2 outta 3 ain't bad) but this was definitely framed as a 3 year commitment, so I was a little surprised to see none of them joining.

[roywhite]

Totally agree with this part. Bron, Melo, Wade, etc. are all all-stars, have all played together, and have all played against int'l competition at this point. They will come in and be fine. Getting these younger guys integrated makes a lot of sense.

And I agree with you about giving up prior summers and addt'l mileage, etc. but I was under the impression that this was a 3 yr commitment. Not a big deal if they come in for 2011 and then the olympics in 2012, (as they say, 2 outta 3 ain't bad) but this was definitely framed as a 3 year commitment, so I was a little surprised to see none of them joining.

Refresh my memory.

Doesn't the 2010 World Champion qualify for the 2012 Olympics and thereby get to skip 2011 qualifying?

[SilkyJ]

Refresh my memory.

Doesn't the 2010 World Champion qualify for the 2012 Olympics and thereby get to skip 2011 qualifying?

Sounds right. I seem to recall that we lost to greece in '06 at the FIBAs, and thats why we had to play in the Americas tournament in '07 in order to qualify.

Presumably, even if we did qualify this year, we would still have training camp and everything in '11 to continue to foster the chemistry, familiarity and everything, but its not the same as playing in games and tournaments together.

So to your point (and mine), shouldn't these guys be around this year in case its the only time before the Olympics that they will get to play in real games together??

[airowe]

So to your point (and mine), shouldn't these guys be around this year in case its the only time before the Olympics that they will get to play in real games together??

The USA has an automatic berth into the 2012 Olympics as the last Gold Medal Winner.

There will be plenty of our opportunity, exhibitions, scrimmages, and game play for the USA team to play together:

http://www.usabasketball.com/calendar/index.html

[roywhite]

The USA has an automatic berth into the 2012 Olympics as the last Gold Medal Winner.

There will be plenty of our opportunity, exhibitions, scrimmages, and game play for the USA team to play together:

http://www.usabasketball.com/calendar/index.html

Airowe, are you sure about the Olympic Gold Medal winner automatically qualifying for the 2012 Games?

Here's a wiki entry on qualifying for the 2008 Olympics If I understand it correctly, the host nation got an automatic berth and the 2006 World Champion had an automatic berth; everybody else (12 teams total in the Olympics) had to qualify in 2007 regional tournaments or in a 2008 qualifying tournament. Perhaps the qualifying procedures for 2012 are a little different?

By the way, any info on whether the top guys for Spain will all play? Both Gasols plus Rubio, Fernandez, etc ---they could be very tough. USA is no sure thing in the World Tournament.

[airowe]

Airowe, are you sure about the Olympic Gold Medal winner automatically qualifying for the 2012 Games?

Here's a wiki entry on qualifying for the 2008 Olympics If I understand it correctly, the host nation got an automatic berth and the 2006 World Champion had an automatic berth; everybody else (12 teams total in the Olympics) had to qualify in 2007 regional tournaments or in a 2008 qualifying tournament. Perhaps the qualifying procedures for 2012 are a little different?

By the way, any info on whether the top guys for Spain will all play? Both Gasols plus Rubio, Fernandez, etc ---they could be very tough. USA is no sure thing in the World Tournament.

I guess I'm not positive but would have bet my life on it 5 minutes ago.