USA Basketball 2010 World Championships Discussion

[SilkyJ]

OK, as promised in the NBA thread I am starting up this thread.

Its a little early as training does not start til July and the Championships dont start til August, but since the discussion was started over there I figured some folks might be interested. (And heck we've been discussing our starting lineup for November for a month already!)

Below are all the posts from the NBA thread. If a mod wants to move them over here, please go ahead!

The most obvious discussion right now is who will be on the team. If no one else does so first, later today/tonight I'll put up what I see as the 12 man roster for the 2010 team and where the battles for spots are likely to occur. That should be a good starting point. Obviously, the picture is quite gray right now with all the free agents potentially not playing (Bron, Wade, Bosh, Booz, etc.) but that just means more scenarios for us to explore

Here is the current list of folks who have agreed to participate on the team for 2010-2012.

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

Gasol and his brother, Fernandez, Navarro, Ricky Rubio, etc.

Don't sleep on Spain, Coach K!

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/05/10/r...well-in-spain/

Rubio is playing quite well these days.

note: sorry for the slight tangent, but Olympic and World Championship hoops is Duke basketball related!

Hey, they took us to the wire in the championship game. Of all the teams not to sleep on, I think Coach K has them at the top of the list. What other team starts 5 players that are/have been/could be playing in the NBA?

I'm excited for the World Championships this year b/c we may be missing a lot of key players due to free agency: Lebron, Wade, Boozer and Bosh and probably one or two others I am forgetting, so we'll get to see how some of the newer/younger guys are coming along and maybe get a glimpse of who the new additions to the 2012 squad will be.

Of the newbies (meaning guys who weren't on the roster in 2008) Durant is virtually a lock, though he'll need to work on his defense if he wants to play starters minutes in 2012. With Boozer and Bosh gone, I'd expect Amare to make it (he was on the team in '06 or '07 with K) and I'd expect Al Jefferson, Brook Lopez, and Lamarcus Aldridge to get long looks as well and probably in that order of preference. Let's say 2 of those guys (including Amare) makes it to replace Booz and Bosh, Durant take Lebron's spot, that makes one more spot open (Wade's). You'd think they would want a versatile, wing type player. Rudy Gay would be a good fit offensively or maybe Lamar Odom, but I could also see hustle/defensive guy like Gerald Wallace or David Lee making it as a 12th man type.

Silky "Hm, maybe I should start a 2010 World Championships thread" J

I agree, I see Rudy Gay in the last spot. I don't think Odom or even Wallace has a very good chance but I would love to see David Lee grab the last spot. Nobody in the league outworks that guy night in and night out.

What about Brandon Roy? He's quite the player.

As for the 12th man, I think they go for a set position player. USA has never really went for players like Odom who play PF and SF. It should be interesting to see, however

Rudy would be a great fit, but is known for sometimes having an attitude problem, not playing defense, etc. and we know K won't put up with that crap. If properly motivated, however, he would make a great addition.

RE: Roy, TOTALLY agree and great point but he isn't listed on the USA website's roster.

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

He would almost certainly be a lock for the team.

RE: 12th man spot. I think it could go either way and to say they didn't go with guys who played multiple positions is crazy! K loves guys like that! Guys like Melo and Lebron all played the 3/4 spots and sometimes lebron played center. At time K went with Paul and DWill in the backcourt, sliding whoever the SG was into the SF spot. K loves guys like that, especially when they can GUARD multiple positions. Heck, thats the reason Tayshaun Prince was even on the team. He could guard 2-4.

I'm not saying Odom is the answer, and they may very well go with a spot shooter like say Danny Granger.

OK, its decided, I'm going to start this thread when I have some time later today. Another thing to discuss will be who is going to be the 3 point specialist on the team to punish the zone like Redd did in '08. Granger could fit that role and don't be surprised in Curry maybe moves into that role (or a bigger one) by 2012...

[DallasDevil]

Assuming that none of the free agents participate, I see the team consisting of (*=starter):
G-Chris Paul*, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant*, Derick Rose
F-Kevin Durant*, Carmelo Anthony*, Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Rudy Gay
C-Dwight Howard*, LaMarcus Aldridge, Al Jefferson


Other guys in the mix may be Billups, Curry, Lee, Odom, and Prince. And after his recent performances, Jerry may want to consider giving Rondo an invite to the program.

[SilkyJ]

I was speaking more along the lines of an Odom like player. He's just such a unique player. He's a PF who can play PF, SF, or C and can also bring the ball up court. He could be picked, but I think they would take a Danny Granger over him.

As for the 3-pt specialist, I could definitely see Curry. He was one of the tops in the league. And, while it's a HUGE longshots, JJ was up there too. He'd have to improve elsewhere significantly. Plus, I can already here the haters now complaining that Coach K would take one of his own for the team

I don't think Curry makes it this year, but in 2012 I'd bet he does.

As for JJ, you need to read my earlier post regarding Roy: he's not on the roster. And uh, HUGE longshot, even in CAPS is still an understatement.

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

[SilkyJ]

Assuming that none of the free agents participate, I see the team consisting of (*=starter):
G-Chris Paul*, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant*, Derick Rose
F-Kevin Durant*, Carmelo Anthony*, Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Rudy Gay
C-Dwight Howard*, LaMarcus Aldridge, Al Jefferson

Other guys in the mix may be Billups, Curry, Lee, Odom, and Prince. And after his recent performances, Jerry may want to consider giving Rondo an invite to the program.

I like where your head is at. Let's play out the ZERO free agents scenario.

I'm with you on the starters, though Paul/Williams will be an interesting battle and both will likely play "starters minutes." At this point, b/c of his 3 point shooting, size, and defense I might actually give Williams the edge.

Remember, one thing K talked about in his previous run was how physical the international game is and in particular how physical their guards are. Deron Williams is a big, physical PG who wont get knocked around.

PG - Williams (for argument's sake)
SG - Bryant
SF - Durant
PF - Melo
C - Howard

So who are the 7 reserves. Last time they had 2 dedicated reserve PGs (Paul and Williams who backed up Kidd) and 2 dedicated post players/centers (Bosh and Boozer who backed up Howard) and 3 wing players: Wade, Redd, Prince who all fit a specific role (Wade: 6th man and scorer, Redd: 3 point specialist, Prince: athletic defender who can guard multiple positions). Seems like a reasonable philosophy to take this time around.

PGs:

1. Paul
2. Rose/Billups (with Westbrook and Curry in the mix)

Centers:

1. Amare
2. Jefferson (with Lopez, Aldridge, and Perkins in the mix)

Wing Players: This is the toughest to project in my mind

1. Granger (3 point specialist/6th man. While the team has more than adequate 3 point shooters in Bryant, Durant, Melo and Williams, Coach K saw the need for a 3 point specialist during his previous run so I'd imagine they'd have one again. Granger is probably the best guy on the roster to fill this spot, though he's not Michael Redd good...I expect them to find someone by 2012 who is better suited for the role, though heck granger is a very good shooter who averaged 25ppg the last 2 seasons so even if they do find someone better, he could still very well be on the team, perhaps filling the next role...)
2. Gay (scorer. complete offensive weapon who can play 2-4 if needed)
3. Wallace (athletic defender who can guard multiple positions)

Others I think could be in the mix: Andre Igoudala, OJ Mayo, Lamar Odom

(Regarding Rondo: he declined his invite for 2010, but may be involved later on. K would love his defense.)
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/2010/05/ra...sa-invitation/

[Bluedevil114]

As a great a school UNC is and there are no "holes" being considered.

Boston just got done winning the championship before the Olympics and since JJ and Orlando will be going to the Championship this year it should give Rondo some extra time to rest.

[DallasDevil]

I should add that my line-up was based on the assumption that Amare opts out and becomes a free agent this summer.

[Big Pappa]

I don't think Curry makes it this year, but in 2012 I'd bet he does.

As for JJ, you need to read my earlier post regarding Roy: he's not on the roster. And uh, HUGE longshot, even in CAPS is still an understatement.

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

JJ really has no shot, as much as I would love to see him there. I'm not sure a non-starter has ever been on a U.S. Olympic Team (possible trivia question). I would love for someone to give Adam Morrison a prank call, "Adam, since your NBA career has been so great and everyone said you would be SO much better than JJ in the league, we have decided to let you play for the U.S. Olympic Basketball team... Just kidding." *click*

[SilkyJ]

JJ really has no shot, as much as I would love to see him there. I'm not sure a non-starter has ever been on a U.S. Olympic Team (possible trivia question). I would love for someone to give Adam Morrison a prank call, "Adam, since your NBA career has been so great and everyone said you would be SO much better than JJ in the league, we have decided to let you play for the U.S. Olympic Basketball team... Just kidding." *click*

Now you're just being mean...




OK i'll do it. Who has his #?

[Billy Dat]

According to the USA Basketball website, here's the full pool. Colangelo and K always say that building up equity is important. I've sorted the list, by memory, by who has the most equity built up. I also included a bucket of guys who participated in the mini-camp last year but are not on the finalist list this year.

2008 Olympians (most equity built up, * for 2010 free agents, ** for hinting that they may not be available, *** for injured/old/may want to hold out for 2012)
Carmelo Anthony**, Carlos Boozer*, Chris Bosh, Kobe Bryant***, Dwight Howard, LeBron James*, Chris Paul*, Dwyane Wade*, Deron Williams, Tayshaun Prince

2007 Tourny of the Americas (next most equity built up):
Chauncey Billups, Amar’e Stoudemire

2008 Select Team/2009 Mini Camp (next most equity built up):
Andre Iguodala, Brook Lopez, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, David Lee
Kevin Love, O.J. Mayo, Jeff Green, Derrick Rose, Eric Gordon, Rudy Gay

Newbies/Prior Invites but Never Participants:
LaMarcus Aldridge, Stephen Curry,Tyreke Evans, Danny Granger, Al Jefferson,
Lamar Odom, Kendrick Perkins, Gerald Wallace

Guys who played last summer but aren't on this year's list:
Thad Young, Kyle Korver, JaVale MacGee, Josh Smith, DJ Augustin, Anthony Randolph, Greg Oden, Ronnie Brewer, Paul Milsap

[greybeard]

I think that there is very little possibility, as in zero, that Kobe plays this summer, or any other after the Lakers make a meaningful run. Same for LeBron. If Paul plays, in my opinion, he's insane, given how is body does not hold up.

Durrant is likely to play and I have to believe has much he can learn. On the other hand, any star on any team that goes deep in the playoffs in any year I should think would need to be certifiable if they play. Bodies break down and we are seeing it with the best of the best, namely Kobe, and I believe LeBron as well, although in his case I think it is shooting threes on the move from ungodly distances in ways (falling back) that do not permit his torso to follow through with the shot--thus the sore elbow.

I am not a fan of Dream teams; nor am I a fan of pro basketball players playing in the Olympics. I think that Stern is crazy for not using his influence to get the United States to force a change of the game played in the Olympics to OUR GAME, not some offshoot of it that changes the geometry and the timing of the game such that all this training in order to compete is necessary in the first place.

I think that we, Americans, can easily field the best team in the world if the game was the one played in America, either college or NBA rules. I think a month of easy practice, and a team of pros if that is what it must be would roll through the Olympics or any other international tournament.

I see almost no value to pro ball players spending their human capital preparing to play a game that I think is markedly different than anything that they have played growing up and anything that they will play when paid going forward.

Since it probably would be a public relations nightmare for Stern to take such a position--a tacit admission that what is so is, that is, that the rest of the World is better at the International game then we are unless we are lucky enough to win a squeeker after the best-of-the-best spend four summers preparing so they are not markedly stupider on the court than their competition.

I say, return to letting only amateurs from the US play. Maybe one and doners will spend an extra year or two in college to get a shot out of showing on a public stage. Then, the US will have no impediment in insisting that the real game of basketball be played and that it will no longer participate in a game that is foreign to the originators of the sport.

I think that, if the US does not get to compete against others in the game that is played in the US, they will lose no matter who is on the team this next time. I also happen to think that the very best players will no longer participate, that they will come to realize that their bodies are a zero sum game and should not be wasted on what has become an economic behemouth in which they have no stake.

[roywhite]

We've had nearly every version of USA participation in Olympic (and to a large extent World Championship) basketball:

AAU guys and college guys play
The best college guys play
College guys play, but younger and not always the best
Dream Team of pros
Team of pros without many star players
Good team of pros with limited preparation
Best available pros with good preparation (2008)

In the meantime, the competition has gotten better and better, and generally consists of the very best players a given country has.

Frankly, I liked the 2008 model a lot; the USA had a very good team and was well prepared, but had a serious challenge in the Gold Medal game. Going to another model is just not very likely IMO.

I will concede that a slightly lesser USA team this summer has a chance of losing to, say, Spain, or Argentina. But let's try to get the best players we can and prepare them in a first class way, as I know Colangelo, K, and others will do.

[Big Pappa]

I think that we, Americans, can easily field the best team in the world if the game was the one played in America, either college or NBA rules. I think a month of easy practice, and a team of pros if that is what it must be would roll through the Olympics or any other international tournament.

I agree with most of the points in your post but not this one. I agree that we could field the most talented team but not necessarily the best one. IMO there is no way a team of NBA all-stars thrown together could roll through a seasoned and close-knit group from another country - like Spain.

As Duke fans, we all know the value of having a group of guys who play hard, together, and that are well coached. Hard work and some talent usually can outway some work and lots of talent (2010 - Kentucky and Duke). I don't think that the international rules offset the importance of working really hard and playing together, even if the team from the other country is less talented.

[Billy Dat]

I love the way the system is set up now, and I have grown to love the international game. I think, considering how great our players are, dealing with the handicap of not having international rules and style in their DNA is ok. I agree that players who have already made their mark may think twice about participating every time, but the double whammy of testing/improving their games against the best comp, and the boost in exposure, will always be a huge lure for the up and comers. Since we seem to have a never ending supply of budding stars, I think we'll be in great shape. The USA Basketball program is as strong as it has ever been since the world "caught up" and I am really looking forward to this summer, and London in 2012. The amateur era for the Senior Men's National team has passed, if you want to get into that, watch the U19 or U18 team. That, basically, the remaining amateur international competition.

[Billy Dat]

FWIW - I also think K's post-Duke career will involve him having Jerry G's current job of Executive Director/CEO of USA Basketball.

[basket1544]

I read on ESPN's rumors page that Deron Williams won't be playing this summer. Something about a wrist injury.

[greybeard]

The geometry of the game, the lane size in particular, and the ability to swat balls off the rim, make understanding one's vulnerability on exterior defense, for example, very problematic. Accordingly, one not familiar with the game, might think that he has help available no matter which side of the low block the offensive player is situated on, only to discover the help cannot get there. The same can be said on the other side of the ball. Understanding what is a "win" position either off a catch in the low post, a catch in the high post, a drive to the basket, all changes with the different goal tending rule and the geometry of the lane. We have not yet talked about the different rules regarding inbounding the ball and, again most importantly, walking.

It would be like taking a poker wiz at 5 card stud and putting him in a game in which 3s are wild, then 2s and 3s. He'd be a relative idiot as against people used to playing with the wild cards. This is where the real advantage lies, not in team chemistry, but in being smart in a fundamentally different game, at least as I see it.

The more players focus on the incidence of injury that accompanied playing on this past team, I believe Kobe, LeBron and Melo all broke down to name just 3, and that no one but the beast really flourished--Williams and Paul also broke down this year too. These guys are going to get that it doesn't get all better and that those injuries start counting much more as they age, come into the 30 range, new symptoms emerge. When players start realizing the number of former players who never hurt their hips who have had to have hip replacements at early ages, playing hard for an extra two months a year for highly paid stars concerned not just with the longevity of their careers but the quality of their post career lives, forgettaboutit, they ain't playing.

With all the work that Bryant Gumbel is doing in investigating and reporting on injury in sport, and the more they see of child hood heros or oldsters in the league who can no longer exhibit athleticism even while they still appear to be in great shape, the time for these type concerns reaching young players, I believe, has arrived.

Those who are looking for killer big contracts might still want to play and think it worth it; Durrant and his teammate Green (I think Green would be TERRIFIC in the international game, by the way) are examples who come to mind. However, one year of playing through and if, for example were to go deep next year, I think that both those guys would opt out, or at least that they should.

We'll see. This entire length of season issue it seems to me falls away if international play were to change to the NBA rules. The NBAs expansion plans might push the International community in that direction, particularly as more and more of their stars compete in the NBA. Then, I believe, the US would be able to field superior teams for the forseeable future without the summer commitments for four years which is the current requirement.

[Big Pappa]

Durrant is likely to play and I have to believe has much he can learn.

Those who are looking for killer big contracts might still want to play and think it worth it; Durrant and his teammate Green (I think Green would be TERRIFIC in the international game, by the way) are examples who come to mind.

I understand your points about international play and they are very well supported. I do have to nitpick though because you did it twice. It's Kevin Durant

[CPDUKEGUY24]

In response to previous comments, w/ regard to making sure K remembers not sleep on Spain and their stacked starting five, who know already how to play the international game so well...

For starters: http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...age=08_moly_04

"We're really pleased with our effort. It's an honor to play against a great team. And, Spain has a great team," said USA and Duke University head coach Mike Krzyzewksi.

He was on 'em back in 08'

Did you guys ever doubt him? Come on... coaching staff consists of a West Coast coach, McMillan, who sees (by sees I mean, coaches against and thusly also literally sees) more of Pau Gasol than he could ever want. And also coaches Fernandez, and Im sure at some point has coached against Lil. Gasol, and Navarro as well.

As well as, Mr. International/Up-Tempo style of play, himself, Mr. Mike D' Antoni (sp?)

Ducks in a row folks, it could only be better his second time around right?

[DukieBoy]

Here's what my line-up is going to look like

PG - Deron Williams
SG - Kobe
SF - Bron
PF - Melo
C - Howard

PGs
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo

Forwards
Amare
Bosh

Wing Players
Wade
Roy
Granger

[SilkyJ]

PGs
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo

Wing Players
Wade
Roy
Granger

Dude, you've GOT to start paying attention. Rondo declined his invitation, as I posted in response to DallasDevil and I have now responded to you THREE times that Roy is not on the roster.

LOOK AT THE ROSTER DUUUUUDDDDEEE

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

you need to read my earlier post regarding Roy: he's not on the roster.

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.ph...01012MNTroster

(Regarding Rondo: he declined his invite for 2010, but may be involved later on. K would love his defense.)
http://www.hoopsnotes.com/2010/05/ra...sa-invitation/