Lost: Across The Sea

[JasonEvans]

I'm not quite to where airowe is, but I am darn close.

I now feel that the show would have been better if, after Juliet blew up the bomb we had seen our heroes flying on Oceanic 815 and it did not crash and it was like none of this ever happened.

We could have simultaneously seen Ben kill Jacob, then smokey reveals himself and screams "freedom!!" as he flies away across the ocean and envelops all of Earth in a dark cloud of smoke -- destroying everything.

So, by setting off the bomb, our heroes saved the world from Smokey destroying the world. Lost logo. Fade to black. End of story.

Yeah, it would have sucked, but not as much as going through this often painfully bad 6th season. Sigh.

--Jason "it is morning and I am still really mad at Darlton -- how could they not know that this sucks?" Evans

[ncexnyc]

So nearly everyone on this board is crying about last night's episode. Gee whiz,just about all of you have been watching since day one and when has LOST followed up on what was supposed to be an earthshaking episode full of revelations? Everytime they've done this we always get more questions than answers.

Ok so we know Mom and MIB are Adam and Eve. Did they really have to flashback to the scene with Kate, Jack, and Locke? Or is there some significance to that. Could it be those three will be the modern versions of Mom, Jacob, and MIB?

Mom said she was the guardian of the island and had taken that role over from her mom. She also had MIB's take on humanity, which seemed very odd. Does that mean Jacob's view has something to do with what he did to his brother? Mom said he really wasn't supposed to be the chosen one and he got the position by default. Throughout the show we've always been told Smokey was the island's security system. Is MIB still acting in that role, trying to thwart Jacob's plan to open the island?

MIB saw his dead mother, but Jacob couldn't. Hurley sees dead people that others can't. Alot of people say this is going to end up between Jack and Flocke, are we shortchanging Hurley as a player in the overall game?

Did mom do all that killing and cover up an excavation site. Pretty impressive for an old lady. Or was Smokey summoned?

When in time this all happens doesn't really matter. We can write off the appearant inconsistencies to visitors eventually installing the wheel through some prodding by MIB and the subsequent alterations in time that were likely to occur.

Is MIB actually MIB? Or has Smokey assumed his form to torment Jacob?Afterall, we did see his body out of the cave and later laid to rest with Mom.

The last few weeks just about everyone was jumping on the Flocke is totally evil bandwagon, but after last night some are waffling. I'd say that's an interesting turn of events.

[alteran]

Well sure, except that this is a TV show, and a TV show can take a stand and simply tell us "This is what happened" and then we know. Lost has repeatedly refused to take a stand and tell us anything of value or note or interest as it relates to the show and what came before, which is why honestly over the years it has lost me a bit.

FWIW, the infinite regression problem is unsolvable, either in reality or fiction. Every single mythology has exactly this problem. You cannot solve the infinite regression problem without begging the question. I actually thought the line "every question you ask will just create another question" was a metaphorical hammer over the head of the audience.

A really patronizing metaphorical hammer.

Yes, I'm as annoyed as everyone else.

I'm willing to live with "the rules are this way because Zeus and Osirus said so over a couple of beers." I just want to know what the frakking rules are. It's clear that Ilana knew some of the rules, because she knew MIB was "stuck" in Locke's body once Jacob was dead.

They really should have told us the rules this episode, instead of dancing around them vaguely. I think they're dancing vaguely because while they always knew a lot would come down to these arbitrary rules, they didn't really nail them down from the beginning, and as soon as they state them the fan base is going to find places where they got broken.

That strikes me as the coward's way out. Admit you made some mistakes rather than keep dodging. We'll deal.

I'm pretty convinced this is how the rest of Lost is going to go. Lindelhof and Cuse are just too afraid to answer the SPECIFICS of the questions for fear of getting caught in inconsistencies. This "if it's important to our characters, you'll get the answer" crap is a clear dodge. Oh you want to know the rules? Well, the specifics weren't important to Hurley. You want to know why people keep bumping into each other across time and space? Well, Jack doesn't really want to know.

The only really good moment last night was finding out that Adam and Eve were NOT a couple, but mother and son (sorta). That felt like the old Lost that could surprise without being cheap.

L&C will not be answering questions the last 3.5 hours except in passing, and probably just as unsatisfactorily as we saw tonight. Let's learn to deal with it, people. Like Jason said, what are we going to do? Not watch the last 3.5 hours out of 100+? I don't think so.

The last three hours is going to be about the characters, and the island story arc, and what happens with MIB.

--alteran

p.s. FWIW, I personally think the polar bears mystery has been more or less answered.

Dharma wanted the polar bears as test subjects to operate the dangerous frozen donkey wheel in a rudimentary manner. That's why Dharma was training them with fish biscuits. That's why Charlotte found a polar bear in a Tunisian desert with a Dharma collar, in the location that Ben Linus landed when HE spun the frozen donkey wheel.

They either escaped or were released, and the Losties happened on one of them. End of story.

Walt's polar bear in the comic book is at this point a red herring.

A genuine deathbed answer from L&C might be a little different from this, but materially this has got to be pretty close.

[CLT Devil]

At this point I would even take a 'Men In Black' ending, the very end of the movie where the camera keeps focusing out to the whole world, then the who solar system, the galaxy and then shows our entire Universe is contained within a marble that some crazy aliens are gambling over, along with a few dozen other marbles. Just to show us how insignificant we really can be.

I agree with the last poster than when you make it up as you go there will be mistakes in the plot. I think the creators are worried about the 'Star Trek Scenario' where everytime a fanboy meets them they are asked "how did Jack know that the two marbles symbolized, etc, blah blah blah." Just own up to it and give it closure.

[JasonEvans]

I'm willing to live with "the rules are this way because Zeus and Osirus said so over a couple of beers." I just want to know what the frakking rules are. It's clear that Ilana knew some of the rules, because she knew MIB was "stuck" in Locke's body once Jacob was dead.

They really should have told us the rules this episode, instead of dancing around them vaguely. I think they're dancing vaguely because while they always knew a lot would come down to these arbitrary rules, they didn't really nail them down from the beginning, and as soon as they state them the fan base is going to find places where they got broken.

That strikes me as the coward's way out. Admit you made some mistakes rather than keep dodging. We'll deal.

Bing-freaking-go!!!!

I would even have been willing to buy into the exceedingly lame notion of "the beautiful light must be protected" if the show had actually bothered to explain why and what it all meant and some other stuff that mattered in this episode.

Here is what I do not get -- the show has been great because of the characters. The fans know that and the producers say it in every interview. Ok, fine. Then when you force us to leave the characters for prolonged moments, you better damn well make it worth our while by explaining and expanding upon the mythology and meaning of what our characters are caught up in. Instead, we got a side story that did not make sense, did not expand upon what is going on now with our characters, and was painfully poorly written and acted.

This in unforgiveable at this point in the game. The Lost producers have been bragging for 3 years about how they were going to get to do something that show almost never get to do -- they were going to end on their own terms with the story they had envisions from the start. Woo hoo!!! This was somewhat revolutionary in the world of drama. It happens in sitcoms all the time, but sitcoms generally do not have an ongoing story and certainly not a story centered around a mystery. I cannot recall any drama like this. This would be special!!

But, with 3+ years to make sure the story ended perfectly they are instead blowing it in a big way down the stretch. How can you have one of the worst episodes in the history of the show as your 3rd to the last episode?!?!?! Unforgiveable!!

Maybe they will make it up at the end. I know we will all be watching (like I said, what choice do we realy have). Still, I feel like we have been cheated and conned and ripped off by the execution of this final season. This has been worse the worst season of Lost, by a longshot, and that is just sad.

--Jason "I am not sure what more I can say... but I bet I will think of something" Evans

[JasonEvans]

It is nice to know I am not alone in hating this episode.

Over at DarkUFO.blogspot.com (a site with a ton of spoilers, but they label them well and keep them on the spoiler side of the site so it is safe to visit), they run a poll after every Lost episode to guage fan reactions.

Here is a table showing how all the episodes rank (I think they started the rankings with season 3).

I suggest you start from the bottom, not the top, if you want to see how Over The Sea is doing in the rankings. It is currently #8 from the bottom. That's right, 3 episodes from the end of the series we get the 8th worst episode in the history of the show. The bottom is mostly full of those early season 3 episodes when the show did not know where it was going and when fans started to leave in droves. So, this dreck wranks up there with Lost's absolute worst. I hope Darlton are proud. Jerks!

-Jason "grrrrrrrrrrrrr" Evans

[mr. synellinden]

Yes, yes it has.

"The time for questions... is over"

I agree. I'm done asking questions because I know they won't be answered. I'll watch but I'm thoroughly disconnected at this point. I couldn't care less if this was all a dream. I'm done.

I feel like I've been dating a girl for 7 years hoping and believing that there would be a beautiful marriage to cap off this relationship. Sure, we've had our ups and downs, at times not really knowing what the other was thinking. Then, just as I ask her The Question, she comes back at me with questions instead of answer. "Where will we live?" "How will we deal with having kids in a world like this?" "What if we can't have kids?" "When are we?"

Lost, you lost me.

I am where airowe is. I am thoroughly disgusted with Lost and its creators. This season has been a huge waste and a revelation that there was no semblance of a plan or storyline telling the Lost mythology.

I realize we have 3.5 hours left, but I suspect that the majority of that will involve the resolution of the on-island battle between Flocke, Widmore and the remaining castaways -- and what the impact of this has been on the sideways world. All of that seems almost entirely inconsequential to me if there is not an adequate explanation of the mythology of the island, what it is, where it came from, what dharma was doing, who the Others were, where the Temple came from (is that really all we're going to get about the Temple people? if so, why the hell did we even have that diversion this season?), how it is a vehicle for time travel, where its electro-magnetic properties come from and what they mean, ... I could really go on at length.

This episode answered very little about all of that. Yes we know that Jacob and MIB are brothers and how they came to be on the island. And we know who Adam and Eve are (but really, who cares about that?). We know nothing about this magical light at the end of a stream. We know nothing about Mom, what she is doing there, why she killed Claudia and what her true motivations were in raising Jacob and MIB. What is she protecting? What really will happen if MIB leaves the island? These two brothers were born on the island and had a mortal mother. What makes them special?

Maybe some of these questions will be answered, but I also suspect not. I can't believe after five seasons of great drama and being led to believe that Season 6 would explain all of these things, we are left with the island being a place with special store of light and energy that has some type of life-giving and life-taking power.

My bet is that it does all tie to the concept of fate (remember what was written on Charlie's hand in season 1). That this island and this light/energy source is what controls the fate of mankind. Perhaps weaving is symbolism for the weaving and interconnectedness of fate. And if there is nobody on the island to protect the mechanism that creates/controls fate, then chaos would reign and, as Eloise said, we would all cease to exist because there is no fate dictating that we be here and our lives proceed a certain way. Maybe that is why all the castaways in the sideways world are being brought together - because that is what is consistent with fate - if the plane didn't crash, then they need to be brought together somehow because fate requires it.

If that is what is happening here - then explain the magnetism of the island, why it's relevant -- explain the time travel properties. Perhaps the turning of the donkey wheel releases the light/electro-magnetism energy and there is a temporary disruption of fate and chaos that causes a jump in time?

I am holding out a sliver of hope for the last 3.5 hours, but even if we get to a good place in the end, this season has been a huge disaster in my eyes that is likely to drag down the legacy of Lost.

[airowe]

Why can the Dharma Initiative people not have babies but Jacob and MiB could be born and so could Aaron?

So many questions. Not enough answers.

This is like the reverse of Radio Shack.

[blublood]

The bottom is mostly full of those early season 3 episodes when the show did not know where it was going and when fans started to leave in droves. So, this dreck wranks up there with Lost's absolute worst. I hope Darlton are proud. Jerks!

Seeing as how Darleton tend to get their feelings hurt and lash out over Twitter when fans do not like their episodes, I hope they did not read that. They might decide to sub in a truly awful, enigmatic ending to the finale just to stick it to us. You'd hope they'd be above that, but hmmmmmmm....

[BlueDevilBaby]

Why can the Dharma Initiative people not have babies but Jacob and MiB could be born and so could Aaron?

So many questions. Not enough answers.

This is like the reverse of Radio Shack.

Because they were conceived off-island.

[airowe]

Because they were conceived off-island.

That's right. I forgot about that part. Disregard my stupidity.

[mkirsh]

Share the same feelings as most others. We did learn/confirm a few things last night, such as: how Jacob and MiB are related, where did they come from, who are Adam and Eve, what the wells were for, what Locke meant when he said he had a crazy mother, and where the donkey wheel comes from (although some of the answers sucked, they were still answers).

I don't think we will ever get answers to who CJ Craig is and how she got to the island or what the magic light is/means, but did have some other thoughts/questions after last night:

#1: How much does Jacob really know about the island? CJ Craigg was very vague in what she explained to him, and he didn't seem to be the brightest bulb. How does he know the rules, how to create mirror lighthouses, how to get off the island to visit the Losties, etc? Also, does he really know what he is protecting, or is he just protecting the island because he was told to (kind of like the Losties pushing the button in the Swan every 108 minutes)?

#2: Did Jacob create smokey by throwing his bro into the light, or did smokey already exist and they just merged? Teenage MiB saw a vision of his biological mother - was that the smoke monster, or he can just see dead people like Hurley?

#3: If the island takes 2, maybe 3 days to walk from one side to another, how did MiB not find the magic light after looking for 30 years?

#4: Is there any significance to the fact that both Jacob and MiB were born on the island but conceived off of it, like Aaron was?

#5: Did mom have a "foil" or balance like Jacob does with his Bro?

#6: Since mom doesn't seem like a very nice person, is the island caretaker supposed to be "evil" (for lack of a better word), and that is why she thought MiB was the logical heir? Is Jacob not the right fit for the role, and that is why he has to balance with MiB? Is this why Jacob keeps bringing people to the island, to disprove mom and MiB?

#7: When jacob was explaining the island to Richard, he used the corked decantur and said the wine was evil and the island was the cork holding the evil in. Yet at his "coronation", he drank the wine (looked to be the same wine) to take over from mom.

#8: I would bet on Desmond walking into the magic light to somehow restore balance to the island, leaving him the sole caretaker like Mom was before Jacob.

[Wander]

For whatever it's worth... the best part of Lost (end of season 3) was immediately preceded by the worst part of Lost (middle of season 3). Repeat? Maybe?

By the way, I assume this episode was also the reveal about Walt, with the mom calling MIB "special" and all. Which sucks... but I don't think this episode necessarily single-handedly ruins the whole show.

[El_Diablo]

I think a lot people expected this episode to answer all the questions about the mythology of the show, and they feel let down because the questions have not been resolved fully. There are 3.5 hours left...still a lot of time to expand upon the mythology and resolve the bigger questions. Of course, it will be a little open-ended on that front, but it's probably better that way. Would people really rather hear about midichlorians again? That would be really lame too.

IMO, this episode was still just setting the stage for the big reveals in the finale.

If this episode were indeed the deepest they end up dwelling into the mythology, then I agree with the majority here that it was a poor effort. But I believe that there will be more built upon this, so I'm still optimistic. One way or the other, we'll find out soon enough.

[Udaman]

Last week I defended the episode that many people did not. I thought there were some (arguably obvious) answers to some questions, and that was OK.

But this week...sheesh! Can't do it. When I realized the episode was over half way done, I was already mad, and that just made me angrier.

Jacob and MIB (and the producers saying - let's not reveal his name ever, because wouldn't that be funny. GRRRRR) are born from normal people? Huh? So many new and dumb questions. Who is their mom? How did she get there? Where does her power come from? How could she make it so they two brothers can't kill each other? Why does that then default to smokey...when he isn't really his brother? Or is he? ARGHHHHHH.

But really, the main issue are the huge series questions that I doubt ever get answered. They include:

1) How did the Egyptian statue get built, and why?

2) How did Jacob learn he could leave the island?

3) Why can't Smokey kill the candidates? Why can't they kill themselves? Why can they only kill each other?

4) Why was Jacob bringing random people to the island? Just to look for a replacement? What was the whole conversation with him and Smokey at the end of season 5 about - "It only ends once. Everything up to then is just progress."

5) Why were the Others there? How did Ben release smokey before?

6) Why was the Temple formed?

7) How did Ben know how to get off the island? How did the other Other do it before (when we went to visit Michael)? Why did the island move when Locke turned the wheel? What was the incident about? Why the freaking numbers?

8) Why is the "Island" in control? Is it? So many times people have said, "The island isn't through with you." "The island won't let us die." Why? How? What???

These aren't trivial questions. These aren't - "Oh, how did that guy know her. Hmmm. Doesn't really matter, I guess." These were and some still are INTEGRAL parts of the show and the action between the characters....and in the end, we will have no idea what they meant...because the producers had no idea.

It's sad. This was a great show. Now, I just want it over. Thankfully, it ended after just 6 seasons.

[JasonEvans]

And you know what sucks, Udaman? They are not going to give us answers because they don't want to admit that they do not have answers.

I would not care if they said the freaking river of light was midochlorians!! At least George Lucas actually bothered to explain the Force. His explanation was lame and not necessary, but at least he gave it a try. If the Lost producers had come up with some silly, lame reasons for the Egyptian mythology, the baby birthing problem, what the smoke monster is, why Jacob and MIB can or cannot kill each other/leave the island, and so on I'd be happy. I'd deal with it even if it was a somewhat lame explanation. Instead, we get "it is a river of light... but don't go there." And that is it. Nothing else.

--Jason "Do these arrogant idiots not realize that they are destroying their legacy?" Evans

[Lord Ash]

And you know what sucks, Udaman? They are not going to give us answers because they don't want to admit that they do not have answers.

I would not care if they said the freaking river of light was midochlorians!! At least George Lucas actually bothered to explain the Force. His explanation was lame and not necessary, but at least he gave it a try. If the Lost producers had come up with some silly, lame reasons for the Egyptian mythology, the baby birthing problem, what the smoke monster is, why Jacob and MIB can or cannot kill each other/leave the island, and so on I'd be happy. I'd deal with it even if it was a somewhat lame explanation. Instead, we get "it is a river of light... but don't go there." And that is it. Nothing else.

--Jason "Do these arrogant idiots not realize that they are destroying their legacy?" Evans

Whoa whoa whoa whoa! Easy there!

The midochlorians, along with Greedo Shooting First, was George Lucas deficating on my childhood. He should have left well enough alone... all we needed to know about The Force was that it surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the universe together, and because he never made it any more of a BIG SMOKEY POLAR BEAR EGYPTIAN STATUE DONKEY WHEEL mystery, we were fine with it.


Jason, I am glad you mentioned their legacy though... I was talking about that with my wife today... a few seasons ago Lost would have gone down as one of the coolest, most interesting, most mysterious shows ever. Now it just looks like it will not be remembered for much at all except a brilliant pilot and drumming up a lot of public fanfare.

[DukieBoy]

I still thinking people are over reacting. There are still over 3 hours left!!! Lost is known for having amazing season finales, so what do you think they have in store for the SERIES finale that is 2.5 hours. I'm defending them right now because I think they are still setting things up.

And it doesn't matter what they try to answer, as others have said, because there are always going to be more questions.

[Dianesboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DcnB_WLXWo Connect 4 Million

[El_Diablo]

Instead, we get "it is a river of light... but don't go there." And that is it. Nothing else.

Were this the last episode, I too would be upset that there is indeed nothing else. But I don't think they're done with that yet.

They've said they won't cover issues if the characters don't care about them...but you can bet Jack cares about what brought him to the island and why. So much so that he's smashing lighthouse mirrors and jumping off boats.

Give them two more weeks. If they don't explain more...trust me, I'll be standing right next to you with my torch and pitchfork in hand.