Wear Twins to Transfer and other UNC woes

[amat1129]

i hope the wears don't transfer, i really look forward to them underachieving the next few years

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

i hope the wears don't transfer, i really look forward to them underachieving the next few years

I hope they witness the Plummee dunking service a lot these next couple of years.

[left_hook_lacey]

While I agree it's hard to judge a player based on his freshman year, Lance started 18 games and played 15 minutes a game his freshman year. That's a significantly greater contribution than Wears, who started 3 games and played 16 minutes per game combined.*



* my minutes per game calculations count DNPs as zero (0) minutes.

You also have to consider though, Coach K didn't have a whole lot of options in Lance's freshman year as far as size on the inside. It was Lance, McRoberts, and Zoubek as far a truly "big" guy options. And I think Zoub was down a big part of that year with injury? Can't remember for sure.

[johnb]

Ok just making sure. IMHO I think the ACC POY possibly even the NPOY will come to HB and Kyle.

For HB to win NPOY, UNC would probably have to win 30 games. I'd give them both of those accomplishments as long as we end the year with a one-point victory. Seems fair.

[left_hook_lacey]

You are correct in the fact that the media will hype the guy up unbelievably.

And by mentioning those teams I'm talking experienced tourney teams that will hardly be intimidated by a hot shot freshmen.

In the league who will stop him? Oh I'm sure plenty will step up. On our team alone I feel we have at least FOUR people who can step up and shut him down depending on the situation and match-up, b/c we will be switching on him regardless.

I hope for UNC's sake that they come together as a team b/c running iso plays for Barnes will not work for long.

I feel like the amount of success UNC has a team will have a direct impact on how Harrison Barnes' season is viewed as an individual player. He is going to be a media-dariling from the start, but if UNC doesn't put together more ACC wins than it did last year, Barnes will be just another player by season's end. However, if he puts up player-of-the-year type numbers, and UNC is in the runnning for the ACC, Barnes will be seen as the savior and his name will be mentioned for every award know to college basketball.

[PADukeMom]

For HB to win NPOY, UNC would probably have to win 30 games. I'd give them both of those accomplishments as long as we end the year with a one-point victory. Seems fair.

I think 2 of our guys are going to have something to say to HB about obtaining that title.

[Lord Ash]

I do think Barnes will be in contention... as long as he puts up low 20s in points on average (which I don't think is too crazy, considering how few genuine offensive options they have and how good he is, and accounting for the early season cupcakes) and UNC improves greatly (impossible NOT to do) he should be discussed. It is a shame, though... put Nolan or Kyle on that UNC team and they would have a FANTASTIC chance of winning individual awards.

[Kedsy]

As for the Wear twins, I find it amazing how people can downplay what they offer to the heels after just one season. Exactly what did Lance and Brian bring to the table their Freshman year? It seems way to often that if a kid doesn't light it up their 1st year they are ruled a bust.

While I agree it's hard to judge a player based on his freshman year, Lance started 18 games and played 15 minutes a game his freshman year. That's a significantly greater contribution than Wears, who started 3 games and played 16 minutes per game combined.

You also have to consider though, Coach K didn't have a whole lot of options in Lance's freshman year as far as size on the inside. It was Lance, McRoberts, and Zoubek as far a truly "big" guy options. And I think Zoub was down a big part of that year with injury? Can't remember for sure.

The original poster said we shouldn't judge the Wears based on their freshman year performance, saying Lance and Brian didn't contribute so much their freshman year and they turned out OK. I agreed with him that you can't judge a player on his freshman year performance, but disagreed that Lance brought little to the table his freshman year.

So whether the Wears would have contributed as much as Lance if they'd had favorable circumstances is not really relevant to my point, which was that using Lance in that context was a poor example.

[Kedsy]

I do think Barnes will be in contention... as long as he puts up low 20s in points on average (which I don't think is too crazy, considering how few genuine offensive options they have and how good he is, and accounting for the early season cupcakes) and UNC improves greatly (impossible NOT to do) he should be discussed.

In 2005-06, UNC had so few offensive options that their #2 and #3 scorers were Reyshawn Terry and David Noel, but freshman Tyler Hansbrough only scored 18.9 ppg, and was not anywhere close to the NPOY discussion. It would be surprising on next year's UNC team if Barnes would beat Hansbrough's individual contributions.

Put another way, UNC doesn't figure to play at a super-fast pace with the PGs they'll have, and the Heels don't figure to be a top flight defensive team either, so if Barnes dominates the shots enough to score 20+ ppg, the rest of their team will be so pathetic offensively that it's hard to imagine the team winning very many games.

Having said all that, if he scores 16 to 18 ppg and UNC does win a lot of games then he may be in the discussion. I'd be shocked if he won, but he might be in the discussion.

[SupaDave]

I do think Barnes will be in contention... as long as he puts up low 20s in points on average (which I don't think is too crazy, considering how few genuine offensive options they have and how good he is, and accounting for the early season cupcakes) and UNC improves greatly (impossible NOT to do) he should be discussed. It is a shame, though... put Nolan or Kyle on that UNC team and they would have a FANTASTIC chance of winning individual awards.

I understand everyone being high on Barnes - but averaging 20 points a game??!?!??!?! LMAO! It's not gonna happen. Ask Derrick Favors (11.2ppg). Ask Sylven Landesberg (17.8ppg).

Folks like Tyler Hansborough and Toney Douglas have done it but they were mature players by the time they accomplished 20ppg.

This year? Malcolm Delaney and Greivis Vasquez. A Jr and a Sr. Durand Scott is the only other frosh in the top 20 and he's tied for last at 11.2 ppg.

UNC's potential transfers could prove to be addition by subtraction b/c if you guys expect Barnes to see 20ppg he's gonna need to take a lot of shots and as evidenced by those listed above - he would have to DOMINATE the ball.

To dominate the ball for Barnes would mean that a lot of Mickey D's aren't touching the ball.

Considering that a big chunk of the league's top scorers are leaving I expect Barnes to make the top 20 but just keep in mind that they had no one this year.

[ncexnyc]

The original poster said we shouldn't judge the Wears based on their freshman year performance, saying Lance and Brian didn't contribute so much their freshman year and they turned out OK. I agreed with him that you can't judge a player on his freshman year performance, but disagreed that Lance brought little to the table his freshman year.

So whether the Wears would have contributed as much as Lance if they'd had favorable circumstances is not really relevant to my point, which was that using Lance in that context was a poor example.

So basically Lance was a warm body that K was forced to play, because there weren't any viable alternatives. His numbers for his freshman year are 4.0 PPG and 2.5 RPG. Travis Wear posted 3.5 PPG and 2.2 RPG and David posted 2.9 PPG and 1.7 RPG, fairly close numbers to those put up by Lance his first year.

If bringing something to the table means he was the 5th player on the court, then yes you're absolutely right, but somehow I get the feeling you're trying to say he was more than that.

I'm not looking to get into a Lance vs the Wears debate here. What I'm talking about and what really bothers me is how some folks are so quick to write kids off, because they aren't making a huge impact their first year.

A number of people on this board have gone out of their way to pat our team on the back for having won the Championship "the right way", by having players stick around for four years. Part of the process involves players improving over that time and getting better and better each year as we saw with Brian, Jon, and Lance. If the Wears can get better each year and become solid contributors to the heels by their senior year, I'm sure they will have the talent to be a lot better than they were last year.

[Kedsy]

I'm not looking to get into a Lance vs the Wears debate here. What I'm talking about and what really bothers me is how some folks are so quick to write kids off, because they aren't making a huge impact their first year.

And I've said twice that I agree with you on your main point. What really bothers me is people being quick to write off solid contributors based on scoring averages. If that's not what you intended when you seemed to dismiss Lance as a "warm body," then I apologize. Otherwise I feel compelled to say Lance was a much more significant contributor in 2006-07 than the Wears were in 2009-10.

[wilko]

If the Wears can get better each year and become solid contributors to the heels by their senior year, I'm sure they will have the talent to be a lot better than they were last year.

Pardon me while I hope for the opposite.

Not that they are bad guys... they are prolly more committed to their church, organ donors, assist the elderly and do all sorts of wonderful deeds that make them much better human beings than me.

However, I reserve the right to judge them for their poor wardrobe choice and will do so as long as they continue to a juvenile pastel.

No hard feelings. JJ gets bashed for less. So geese and ganders and all that.

[ncexnyc]

I realize refering to Lance as a warm body is cold, but let's be honest it's the truth. Do you honestly believe he would have played as much as he did his first year if the other big men who left the program had stayed?

So was his contribution to Duke as a Freshman more significant than those of the Wears? Absolutely you're right on that account, but it was due more to necessity than ability.

If you disagree with me fine, but a quick review of threads dealing with Lance and his impact on the team his first three years paints a far different picture than the one we see now, with Lance the graduating Senior.

[Lord Ash]

I may indeed be over-estimating Harrison's pt total average (and I knew it was high when I said it) but again, I do think he will be option 1, 2, and 3 on that team, and I think he is an awful good player. I may be wrong, of course

[kong123]

HB did average over 20 pts per game in all of the all-star games, plus he was the MVP of each game, so if there is a player than can average over 20 pts per game as a freshman, then he is as likely as any.

My guess is he will average 15 to 20 points in conference and probably more before conference play begins.

As far as the Weirs go, they need to learn how to play and when they do, they will be solid contributors. Both Weirs averaged 10 minutes each, with Travis averaging 3.5 pt/gm and 2.2 reb/gm. David averaged 2.9 pt/gm and 1.7 reb/gm. Combined, they play 20 minutes and their stats are comparable to LT's. LT is a senior and those kids are freshman playing on a team that had a horrible year. I would say that their upside is much better than LT's upside is or was. Now, LT did many things on defense that do not show up on the stat sheet and who knows whether or not the Weirs will become a defensive force in their 4 years. They will be much better on the offensive end.

[airowe]

HB did average over 20 pts per game in all of the all-star games, plus he was the MVP of each game, so if there is a player than can average over 20 pts per game as a freshman, then he is as likely as any.

There will be more defense played in unc's season opener than there was in any of those All-Star games.

Who's the last SF Freshman to average 15-20 ppg under roy?

[kong123]

Because I am not a KU fan, I cannot comment on his players there, but I would guess Pierce. As far as UNC players go, Hansbrough is the only player in the Williams era that has averaged 15+ pts his freshman year. I understand that he was a PF and not a SF, but he was our big recruit that year. This year, our big recruit is HB and he is a real scorer. We haven't had a real scorer in that sort of position since Rashaad McCants was here. Both Ellington and Lawson could get their own shot, but HB's size and skill set will present problems for many teams. I imagine he will play very much the same game that KS plays, except HB is a more explosive athlete. Like I said, I think he will average 15 pts/game and we will need double digits from the player that wins out at the 2 spot as well. I think Reggie Bullock is capable of providing that. In the end, its a complete toss up after last year. Will they contribute or won't they, that is the question.

[moonpie23]

I would say that their upside is much better than LT's upside is or was.

way to sell Lance short....you be sure and ring us up when EITHER of the twins is a player in the title game that, without their play, there IS not a title game, or the title...

[Duvall]

way to sell Lance short....you be sure and ring us up when EITHER of the twins is a player in the title game that, without their play, there IS not a title game, or the title...

I enjoy mocking the Wears as much as the next guy, but they really are capable of becoming solid contributors by their senior year. They could certainly win a title as role players on a team that surrounds them with elite talent at the other spots.