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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I think it's fair to say their success next year will be heavily dependent upon two things (since I agree they have a lot of talent):
    1) no key injuries
    2) ability of Marshall to run the offense. If he isn't a considerable improvement over DrooToo, they'll be in trouble. If he is, they could be very good, barring injury.

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Who downgraded Barnes? The point is that he isn't going to be enough to overcome their deficits.

    Essentially the comparison is this:

    Bullock compared to Ginyard (improvement, probably)
    Barnes compared to Graves (improvement certainly)
    Henson compared to Davis (I'd take Davis to play the 4)
    Zeller compared to Thompson (even)

    But, then you lose Zeller off the bench and Henson off the bench. So, now you have no backup. So, to say that they are clearly better is odd to me. I just don't see how. Their starting unit may be better on balance, but who is going to rebound if they are going to take advantage of their speed at each position? There is a reason that basketball has evolved to have 2 larger guys on the court on most teams to focus on rebounding. It works to space the court and keep defenses honest. Just not sure Carolina will be able to do that.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    I agree with all of your post, but just wanted to add Ginyard as a player who may have contributed to chemistry problems and is now gone.
    How could I forgot, the creme de le creme...LOL Thanks for the reminder! Just goes to show what type of impact Ginyard had on me....NONE!!!!

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd Dukie View Post
    I look at this situation from a different perspective. From what I have read and heard, the Wear twins, talent aside, come from a pretty solid family background. Maybe the true significance of this event is that the Wears, including the Dad, are tired of Roy. What if this is indicative of further underlying tumult and chaos within the program? I have NO inside information and don't claim to, but I just get a feeling that things are worse in Hole Land than we might see. When allegedly good solid kids and their parents don't want to be associated with the program, my ears perk up.

    Just my .02.
    I agree with this. It seems to me that these were pretty good guys, hard workers, who wanted to be part of a great team. Instead, they appear to have been alienated and left when neither their teammates nor their coaches gave them any respect. On one hand, the players are the issue, but on the other hand, why has Roy not put an end to tweeting about teammates and the team in anything other than a good light?

    Meaning, it was not the Wears who were making a problem with chemistry, it was the Wears who took the brunt of the problems created by poor chemistry.

    Like 3rd Dukie, I am just speculating, but it just feels this way more than the other. Kinda reminds me of how Jason Williams felt playing for the Baby Bulls. He said they were so unprofessional and talked crap to him about being a goodie-two-shoes.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    There's nothing stopping from changing his mind, though, is there?

    Not sure a 6-9 210-lb. guy is what they need, though.
    You don't just go to prep school for no reason...

  6. #226
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd Dukie View Post
    I look at this situation from a different perspective. From what I have read and heard, the Wear twins, talent aside, come from a pretty solid family background. Maybe the true significance of this event is that the Wears, including the Dad, are tired of Roy. What if this is indicative of further underlying tumult and chaos within the program? I have NO inside information and don't claim to, but I just get a feeling that things are worse in Hole Land than we might see. When allegedly good solid kids and their parents don't want to be associated with the program, my ears perk up.
    Wow. I REALLY like how you think.

    I would imagine Roy's dramedy act had to be wearing a little thin to parents of the players, as he kept passive-aggressively (and sometimes not so passively) throwing them under the bus.

    Doing some tea-leaf reading, this announcement seems to lack the smooth arc of a frictionless transfer. There may be quite a bit to what you are saying.

    Still, I'm trying not to kid myself. Whatever UNC's current problems, Roy's won two titles, and good kids are going to play for him.

    I'm going to enjoy the ride, however long it lasts.

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA

    Long time lurker, first time poster

    Hi all, I've been reading this forum alot for awhile though this is my first time posting.

    I thought the 11' UNC team is a little like West Virginia last year, little post depth but alot of length and size on the perimeter. A lineup of Marshall, Bullocks, Graves, Barnes and Henson/Zeller would give them alot of length/size. What do you all think?

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    There's nothing stopping from changing his mind, though, is there?

    Not sure a 6-9 210-lb. guy is what they need, though.
    Does make me curious what the NCAA rules are for preps, and prep commits changing their minds.

    As for the 6-9 210... with Henson, Zeller and this Jack kid, UNC would look like a grandaddy-longleg tournament.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by sandinmyshoes View Post
    Does make me curious what the NCAA rules are for preps, and prep commits changing their minds.

    As for the 6-9 210... with Henson, Zeller and this Jack kid, UNC would look like a grandaddy-longleg tournament.
    JAck has only been playing organized basketball for three years. If roy can find a way to get him qualified, they can have him. But I don't think he can, nor would he waste a scholarship on a project...

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by dchen09 View Post
    Hi all, I've been reading this forum alot for awhile though this is my first time posting.

    I thought the 11' UNC team is a little like West Virginia last year, little post depth but alot of length and size on the perimeter. A lineup of Marshall, Bullocks, Graves, Barnes and Henson/Zeller would give them alot of length/size. What do you all think?
    I think they are coached by completely different coaches. Huggins is the type of coach that preaches defense first and can take a team of talented kids like that and teach them to give of themselves for the team. He teaches toughness and aggressiveness. I don't like some of the things he does off the court, but he is a tremendous coach.

    On the other hand, Roy is sort of a "beautiful game" kind of coach. Like Brazil or Argentina in soccer (futbol). When you have all the best players at every position, it is the most amazing thing to watch. When you don't, it isn't so beautiful.

    I have a hard time believing he is going to get the same sort of toughness out of a bunch of guys who acted like prima donnas this year plus three highly touted recruits, one of whom has a stated goal of being national player of the year and being number 1 in the NBA draft.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    I actually think that the opposite is true. It will be much easier for Roy to run his fast-paced system with this lineup.
    Interesting analysis and I agree that when Barnes is at the 4 they would like to run and play a 4-out type of offense. But they'll still need to pay attention to fatigue with their big guys. I guess Zeller and Henson will have to find a way to pace themselves throughout the game, much like Scheyer and Smith did for us, but it seems harder for an interior player to do that. I liked your comparison to Duke in 2006.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    JAck has only been playing organized basketball for three years. If roy can find a way to get him qualified, they can have him. But I don't think he can, nor would he waste a scholarship on a project...
    My UNC friends are now claiming that Williams has already called Jack and that there is mutual interest. Still, better him than UNC making a run at Terrance Jones. As for being qualified, my understanding is that Jack is already qualified.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    I actually think that the opposite is true. It will be much easier for Roy to run his fast-paced system with this lineup. Presumably, he will play a smaller lineup at least some of the time. As you said, you could see Barnes at the 4 for up to half of the game. With this lineup, the last thing Roy would want is to slow the game down. With that lineup, they will have a speed advantage on most teams despite being undersized (especially in the bulk part of size). A slow game would become more of a physical contest, which UNC would lose almost every time.

    Look at Duke '08 for an example. Duke basically had 3 big guys, two of which were undersized in the bulk department. Could you imagine that team trying to play a slowdown type of game. It wouldn't have worked. Ultimately, that team didn't have the right blend of skills to keep it up into the tourney. I actually think the Duke '08 team might be a good comparison team. Both will have a center who hasn't shown his potential because of injuries. Both have a star freshman who may be forced to play out of position at the 4. Both have a starting pg who has struggled in the past backed up by a freshman. Both have a slashing type 2-guard. Both have a 6-6 forward who could steal minutes at the 4 if he has to and both have a pf who is too thin and may have to play some center. There are a few differences. UNC will have some of these guys be more offensive and perimeter oriented compared to their Duke counterparts (Graves/Henson) compared to (McClure/Thomas). Having the more offensive oriented guys might actually help in this type of system. Both teams have only one senior, but Duke's (Nelson) played a position that was easier to be a leader on the court from than UNC's (Graves). Almost forgot, both lost an underachieving, highly rated F/C to the draft. I know a couple of comparisons aren't quite perfect, but considering all of the circumstances, this might be a good bar for which to compare next year's UNC team. Duke was 11/13 in the preseason polls, and I wouldn't be surprised to see UNC start the year out in a similar position.
    Interesting analysis, though I would say Drew is a better PG than Paulus was (Paulus would have been a better 2G). I agree that having a more offense-minded club to start with might be a plus for them over the D oriented '08 squad. You mentioned it briefly but perhaps the biggest difference between these iterations is leadership. 2010-11 UNC won't have any and '08 Duke had a very good (reg. season at least) leader in Demarcus Nelson.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by sandinmyshoes View Post
    My UNC friends are now claiming that Williams has already called Jack and that there is mutual interest. Still, better him than UNC making a run at Terrance Jones. As for being qualified, my understanding is that Jack is already qualified.
    At UCONN and Arizona maybe...

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking Dark Cloud over the Silver Lining

    I have long-accused posters here of looking for the dark cloud when there is already a silver lining. (The best example is the poster who wrote about Ted Roof: "I am afraid that if he has a winning season, some bigger program will come and hire him." As if that were the worst possible outcome.)

    But along the same lines, I think UNC could be more dangerous next year without the Wear twins. I have always found Ol' Roy's substitution pattern to be helter-skelter and confusing. And I thought, at least in 2010, the team was confused as well. With depth approximating Duke this year (although guards instead of big men), UNC will have a predictable rotation, be more disciplined, and just possibly may play quite a bit better.

    That's the cloud, but the silver lining has not disappeared.

    Either Barnes or Graves will play the 4 one-half the time. This assumes that Zeller and Henson average 30 minutes a game, and one is always on the court. Then, one-half the time UNC will play a lineup of Zeller or Henson plus Barnes or Graves plus three guards. Now mind you, Zeller and Henson averaged 17.4 and 15.8 MPG respectively in 2010. And Zeller has been injured every year. So Barnes could have more minutes at the 4 than at the 3.

    Other observations:

    • Looks like Ol' Roy is gonna get to prove he belongs in the Hall of Fame.
    • It also looks like each UNC guard will have ample to time on the court to display his abilities and inabilities.
    • I hope Wojo, Collins, and Nate are already working on plays to draw fouls on Henson and Zeller.


    sagegrouse

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Ol' Roy's Statement

    “We are extremely disappointed that David and Travis are leaving the program,” says Williams. “I love both kids and they would have been very important parts of our team next season. It is a significant blow to our team as we had four post players and now we are down to two. They are quality kids and will be quality players.
    “Their father called me last night and asked for their release, which came as a complete surprise. I met with both kids in mid-April for our typical end-of-year meetings and together we worked on their development plans for next season. Both David and Travis seemed to be excited about their futures at North Carolina.

    “Our coaching staff will look at at whatever options are available but it’s hard to replace two quality players at this time."

    Seems like one more case of Roy saying a lot more than he needs to. Does he really need to point out that the team is now down to 4 posts? Does he need to say it came as a complete surprise?

    Rhetorical questions.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post

    "Roy Williams."
    You say that like it's a good thing.

  18. #238
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by sandinmyshoes View Post
    My UNC friends are now claiming that Williams has already called Jack and ... my understanding is that Jack is already qualified.
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    At UCONN and Arizona maybe...
    And, of course, UK.

    Wait, what is the cut-off to be "qualified" for a Cal coached program? 20 ppg?

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    ... UNC will ... be more disciplined ...
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    ...I hope Wojo, Collins, and Nate are already working on plays to draw fouls on Henson and Zeller.

    sagegrouse
    Why? Do you see either playing defense?

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    A silver lining

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Other observations:

    • Looks like Ol' Roy is gonna get to prove he belongs in the Hall of Fame.
    • It also looks like each UNC guard will have ample to time on the court to display his abilities and inabilities.
    • I hope Wojo, Collins, and Nate are already working on plays to draw fouls on Henson and Zeller.


    sagegrouse
    Will Graves won't need to slim down in the off-season, because he will need those pounds to play in the post.

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte
    In that statement right there you see the difference between K and Roy. Prove me wrong, but K has never had an ill word about someone transferring, or even commented on it beyond calling him a good kid and wishing him the best. Roy just alkways seems to say a little more than he needs to. Down to only 2 players in the post? Is that a pre-emptive excuse for next year?

    I agree that the main blow to UNC here is the ability to stop a team with a driving PG (Irving!!), as Henson is their lone shot blocker and foul trouble will be huge for them. When we play we will have the luxury of dictating the pace based on their personnel. If Hensen or Zeller go out we can out in the Plumlee Power Duo and loom over them. As you can tell I really really like to beat UNC, and like to crush them like we did last year every time we play.

    A lot has also been revealed with how the other players are publicly (tweeting at least) trashing the two brothers. Can't help but think that was an unhealthy environment last year. I thought some of those were gone in Deon, Davis and Ginyard but what's being said today has made me change my mind. K has always been good at building a 'team' and with the exception of McRoberts rarely have we had a cancerous player. UNC has had quite a few this decade...another testament to K and his ability to read a kid.

    I think this whole subject has been beaten to death, talking about another team losing two role players while we're fresh off a Natty Championship year, but it does give me great pleasure to see Tar Heels squirm, and the last 8 months or so have been phenominal.

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