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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -bdbd View Post
    If either of their 2 bigs gets injured the year, or in foul trouble, then they are in serious trouble.
    Not only that, but the lack of frontcourt depth will make it tough for Roy to run his preferred run-and-gun style. You can't ask two big guys to sprint back and forth across the floor for an entire game. So does Roy slow things down in order to limit the number of possessions (as we did this year)? Or does he have Barnes play extended minutes at the 4? If Zeller and Henson play 30 minutes each (which is a lot), then that leaves 20 minutes for Barnes to play the 4. And 10 of those minutes will be with Henson at the 5.

    There are plenty of teams in college who play without much size (Purdue comes to mind) and without much depth (Butler?)... we're just unaccustomed to seeing it at Carolina.

  2. #202
    Wow. Shows what the heck I know.

    Having said that, I bet Roy won't mind it too much, as Carolina's best chance for success next year is to run, run, run.

  3. #203
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by NYDukie View Post
    IMO, UNC is the big swing team in the ACC and the national map next year. In the end, I believe Duke will still hold the upper hand but before we dismiss them let's look at few different aspects of their team.

    1. Team chemistry was a big "cloud" over them this past year that was repeated over and over. Seems that a few of the rumored reasons now may be gone in Davis, Thompson and the Wears. To what extent each affected team chemistry is debatable but it appears some combo of those four contributed to it.

    2. Some are quick to say they have no frontcourt depth and as a result they should be dismissed to the NCAA bubble or the NIT once more. Wasn't this past year's Duke team questioned for the same reason in the backcourt? Yes, Scheyer and Nolan were a more reliable duo but no one for sure knew Nolan would have the huge uptick in his contributions as he did while Andre would provide some insurance and make some big shots in his limited playing time. I understand Duke had other reliable options also, such as Kyle but who is to say that neither one of Zeller or Henson turns the corner and becomes a 15/8 player while the other is solid contributor. In addition, Barnes could spell them occassionally upfront.

    3. Though freshman, Barnes and Bullock do provide them the possible outside perimeter shooting they lacked. Again, freshman are violatile in production so this can also go many ways but at they do provide UNC more options.

    4. UNC's major issue to me still will be PG and that to me will be what ultimately drags them down. I think Drew got bashed unfairly but at the same time he was miscast for UNC's system. Whether Marshall is the answer remains to be seen as it seems his stock has dropped.

    All I'm saying, and "I'm just sayin" is lets not gloat too much here as some have. I'm not including everyone here as some are more cautious in their opinions of UNC's situation. There is talent over there and sometimes things just need to be added or taken out and stirred back up to get it right. Maybe it works for UNC, maybe it doesn't but from the shade of blue, it will be interesting to see how it goes over there. Do they beat the Duke team next year? I don't think so but they will be a player in my opinion next year.
    While I agree UNC should be an NCAA team next year, and also agree one of UNC's biggest issue is a lack of a PG who can run Roy's high octane system, there is a big difference between having no frontcourt depth and having no backcourt depth: foul trouble. It's a lot easier for opposing teams to draw fouls from an interior defender than a perimeter defender.

    Which is why the reason that next year's UNC team will not be an elite team is they will be a poor defensive team. Their frontcourt will have to be wary of foul trouble and their perimeter players are freshmen, sophomores who haven't played that much, or players who have not shown a predilection for bearing down on the defensive side of the court.

  4. #204

    I have two words for you...

    Hi,

    "Roy Williams." If he can get the players he has to play like a team and make good use of their talents the Tar Heels will (unfortunately) be fine. If he coaches like last season and tries to shove square pegs into round holes--I think the Heels will have another long season.

    Why are these UNC threads so long anyway? I would rather talk about our kids and what Duke will do next year.

    GO DUKE!

  5. #205
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Henson, I think, is enormously talented. Better upside than anyone who has played at UNC than the Jamison days. In my view, much bigger upside than Davis.

    You put him and HB up front and you have a formidable half court and full court game. Drew will be more than competent as a lead guard with those two out there. Zoller gives Carolina a three-man big rotation that is not to be underestimated.

    Both Henson and Barnes will be terribly difficult to guard in the half court, especially inside, especially off of controlled breaks in which they catch in the middle without help defense set.

    I haven't given any thought to what else Carolina has but both these guys are likely to be dynamite on the college level, probably next year. It won't take much else.

  6. #206
    Now there is rumor that UNC might take a look at Kadeem Jack. He's a mobile power forward or even center in a pinch. He was a late bloomer, who can run the floor and rebound despite being thin. Supposedly he was thinking of going prep so that he could maybe catch some offers from elite programs. UNC might be exactly what he's looking for without having to prep a year.

    If they pick up this kid, and get to use the other Wear scholarship next year... that will possibly be more than a little annoying.

    God forbid they should get Terrance Jones somehow, the Jacks kid would be bad enough.

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    No doubt, this team will be a lot better than last years'.
    Will it be? I mean, I'm not saying it won't. There's the potential for them to be better. Who knows how this will play out? Maybe Roy will comb the country for a passable replacement and they will excel next year. Maybe he won't and they will suffer in late-game scenarios because of it. Or maybe he won't find someone and they'll still be better or he will find someone and they'll be worse. But this transfer (these transfers?) puts a gigantic question mark in the middle of their frontcourt. They could still improve, or this could be the beginning of a long and deep slide (let's hope so). Losing four players for two positions in one off-season is not easily replaced.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    While I agree UNC should be an NCAA team next year, and also agree one of UNC's biggest issue is a lack of a PG who can run Roy's high octane system, there is a big difference between having no frontcourt depth and having no backcourt depth: foul trouble. It's a lot easier for opposing teams to draw fouls from an interior defender than a perimeter defender.

    Which is why the reason that next year's UNC team will not be an elite team is they will be a poor defensive team. Their frontcourt will have to be wary of foul trouble and their perimeter players are freshmen, sophomores who haven't played that much, or players who have not shown a predilection for bearing down on the defensive side of the court.
    Among many insightful posts in this thread, I nominate Kedsy's for some follow-up praise and/or commentary, as most have not said much about defense.

    Including me. I've posted several times recently that I still have Heels at ACC #2, but on "IC funny" thread, I admitted to "wobbling" at latest news. Kedsy's point wobbles me ever more, as it's a big ?-mark. Henson is certainly a shot blocker, but fundamentally sound D? Doubtful. Roy able/willing to coach fierce D? Doubtful. Graves willing to play every play on D? Doubtful. Marshall able to defend opposing PGs of big-time talent? Doubtful.

    Allow me also to commend, for those of you who won't read every post on this schadenfreuede-filled thread, post #169 by Bluealum. Very thoughtful.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    While I agree UNC should be an NCAA team next year, and also agree one of UNC's biggest issue is a lack of a PG who can run Roy's high octane system, there is a big difference between having no frontcourt depth and having no backcourt depth: foul trouble. It's a lot easier for opposing teams to draw fouls from an interior defender than a perimeter defender.

    Which is why the reason that next year's UNC team will not be an elite team is they will be a poor defensive team. Their frontcourt will have to be wary of foul trouble and their perimeter players are freshmen, sophomores who haven't played that much, or players who have not shown a predilection for bearing down on the defensive side of the court.
    I agree with that, assuming that UNC doesn't find a last-minute recruit that is a decent third big. However, I'll say a couple of things:

    1. There is always the chance that they find a last-minute recruit to be an adequate third big, which would alleviate some of the foul concerns.
    2. One of the knocks on Williams is that he is too liberal with the use of his bench (basically the opposite of Coach K). If he has bodies, they'll play, even if it means fewer minutes for the better players. By removing the Wears from the equation, he'll have to go with his two big guys for extended minutes.

    Point #2 may mean that UNC is that much more likely to win games in which Henson/Zeller don't get in foul trouble. Of course, your point stands that they are that much less likely to win games in which those two do get in foul trouble.

    And of course, any frontcourt injuries would be devastating to them.

  10. #210
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Not only that, but the lack of frontcourt depth will make it tough for Roy to run his preferred run-and-gun style. You can't ask two big guys to sprint back and forth across the floor for an entire game. So does Roy slow things down in order to limit the number of possessions (as we did this year)? Or does he have Barnes play extended minutes at the 4? If Zeller and Henson play 30 minutes each (which is a lot), then that leaves 20 minutes for Barnes to play the 4. And 10 of those minutes will be with Henson at the 5.

    There are plenty of teams in college who play without much size (Purdue comes to mind) and without much depth (Butler?)... we're just unaccustomed to seeing it at Carolina.
    I actually think that the opposite is true. It will be much easier for Roy to run his fast-paced system with this lineup. Presumably, he will play a smaller lineup at least some of the time. As you said, you could see Barnes at the 4 for up to half of the game. With this lineup, the last thing Roy would want is to slow the game down. With that lineup, they will have a speed advantage on most teams despite being undersized (especially in the bulk part of size). A slow game would become more of a physical contest, which UNC would lose almost every time.

    Look at Duke '08 for an example. Duke basically had 3 big guys, two of which were undersized in the bulk department. Could you imagine that team trying to play a slowdown type of game. It wouldn't have worked. Ultimately, that team didn't have the right blend of skills to keep it up into the tourney. I actually think the Duke '08 team might be a good comparison team. Both will have a center who hasn't shown his potential because of injuries. Both have a star freshman who may be forced to play out of position at the 4. Both have a starting pg who has struggled in the past backed up by a freshman. Both have a slashing type 2-guard. Both have a 6-6 forward who could steal minutes at the 4 if he has to and both have a pf who is too thin and may have to play some center. There are a few differences. UNC will have some of these guys be more offensive and perimeter oriented compared to their Duke counterparts (Graves/Henson) compared to (McClure/Thomas). Having the more offensive oriented guys might actually help in this type of system. Both teams have only one senior, but Duke's (Nelson) played a position that was easier to be a leader on the court from than UNC's (Graves). Almost forgot, both lost an underachieving, highly rated F/C to the draft. I know a couple of comparisons aren't quite perfect, but considering all of the circumstances, this might be a good bar for which to compare next year's UNC team. Duke was 11/13 in the preseason polls, and I wouldn't be surprised to see UNC start the year out in a similar position.
    Pratt '09
    GO DUKE!

  11. #211
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd Dukie View Post
    (couldn't help stealing that Bushism)

    I find myself actually wishing the Heels a better season next year than this season.

    I hope they actually WIN the NIT next year!!
    With the NCAA field expanding by 3, I am sure the heels will have a higher seed in the NIT next year.

    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred View Post
    Recruiting better players will not always translate into actually landing better players.
    Better players does not mean better people ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    Has anyone else seen the twitter chatter after this? Henson and a few others were really talking badly about the Wears... saying they were glad they were gone because now they could get some real players, saying they left because they couldn't find a place to park their pickup truck, saying they couldn't tell them apart anyway... Deon actually twittered at the other guys to knock it off, it wasn't funny.

    Check out The Devils Den or even Inside Carolina for some pretty long posts about it.

    The chemistry on that team is just abysmal, and I don't know if the Wears were part of the problem, or are leaving because of it.
    This is the truly encouraging part of the saga ... It sounds like there is something still rotten on the hill. The guys that are left (Deon - apparently the voice of reason in the locker room is leaving) are into "talent," which means they consider themselves to have "talent" and to be above those whom they consider to have "less talent." Sounds like this is a team of individuals who are looking out for their draft prospectus.

    Should be fun for ol' roy to get this group to play together, or to listen to him talk about sacrifice for the team.

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    If UNC is the second best team in the ACC next year, it is only because the rest of the ACC is not good. This team, at least on paper, should be not very good. Yes, Barnes and Henson are tough to guard, but who will they guard? Barnes is a good rebounder, but you can't really expect him to rebound with 6'10 and 6'11 guys at the same rate. Carolina still has the same issue at PG they had last year. They want to run, but their PG can't do it effectively. For LD II, it is because of decision making. For Marshall, at least from what we have all heard, he just isn't a fast, push the ball type of PG. They get a major upgrade in talent on the wing, but they lose a ton in rebounding and post presence. I don't see why everyone thinks they will be much much better next year. I think they will be better, top half of the ACC, but certainly not a team I would expect to beat us. Anything can happen in a given game, but if I were betting, I'd bet heavily on Duke to win in both Cameron and Dean Dome by >10 points.

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by NYDukie View Post
    1. Team chemistry was a big "cloud" over them this past year that was repeated over and over. Seems that a few of the rumored reasons now may be gone in Davis, Thompson and the Wears. To what extent each affected team chemistry is debatable but it appears some combo of those four contributed to it.
    I agree with all of your post, but just wanted to add Ginyard as a player who may have contributed to chemistry problems and is now gone.

  14. #214
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Also, what is Henson's problem? That is a really inappropriate thing to say about a teammate past, present or future. Its even worse to say it on a public forum. Is Roy Williams really ok with this? I can't imagine he would be.

    I don't mean to insult Josh McRoberts, but is it possible that Henson is causing the problems that everyone said Josh caused for us? Bad attitude, stand-offish and leading to issues with recruiting and team chemistry? Just a thought.

  15. #215
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    We've been in this position with transfers, but I don't think any were of this significance, do you guys agree? I think maybe when Chris Burgess transferred to Utah leaving Brand? Boozer? I don't remember exactly, but I digress.

    I think this is huge for them in a very negative way. Henson is solid and so is Zeller, but they have no depth and with Zeller's propensity to get injured, they could be in real trouble. It's possible that they can snag a big guy late sometime this summer, but I don't know who is left on the board that they would want to give a scholly to. Anyone know?

    I feel badly for them a little, they get a huge commitment from Barnes and it is almost going to waste now because of this. They'll still probably get to the tournament, but with an early exit. Long live Duke's dominance!!

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by sandinmyshoes View Post
    Now there is rumor that UNC might take a look at Kadeem Jack. He's a mobile power forward or even center in a pinch. He was a late bloomer, who can run the floor and rebound despite being thin. Supposedly he was thinking of going prep so that he could maybe catch some offers from elite programs. UNC might be exactly what he's looking for without having to prep a year.

    If they pick up this kid, and get to use the other Wear scholarship next year... that will possibly be more than a little annoying.

    God forbid they should get Terrance Jones somehow, the Jacks kid would be bad enough.
    They ain't getting Jack.

    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...dwayne-collins

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    So Zeller is injury prone, couldn't the same thing have been said about Brian?
    HB is the real deal and will be a major impact player for UNC. The only reason his ability is suddenly downplayed/questioned is because he decided to go to UNC instead of Duke. Henson is an extremely talented big, who made major strides once shifted to his natural position. The PG's will be solid, but as others have pointed out not really suited to Roy's style. The rest of the team has talent and the only question will be can they gel as a unit.

    Frontcourt depth could be a problem, but then that was also said about our backcourt last year. Hanstravel managed to avoid foul trouble throughout his career and in Roy's system, which doesn't stress defense, their bigs should have little trouble avoiding fouls.

    Will they challenge us? No, but they definitely won't stink up the court like they did last year.

    I also wish Travis and David the best of luck and hope things workout for them.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    There's nothing stopping from changing his mind, though, is there?

    Not sure a 6-9 210-lb. guy is what they need, though.

  19. #219
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisheery View Post
    Also, what is Henson's problem? That is a really inappropriate thing to say about a teammate past, present or future. Its even worse to say it on a public forum. Is Roy Williams really ok with this? I can't imagine he would be.

    I don't mean to insult Josh McRoberts, but is it possible that Henson is causing the problems that everyone said Josh caused for us? Bad attitude, stand-offish and leading to issues with recruiting and team chemistry? Just a thought.
    I apologize for repeating what I said in another thread, but it looks to me like this announcement was a surprise to everyone on the UNC team and they found out like we did-- friends, bulletin boards, and the news. A few not-so-ebullient "good lucks" and some catty remarks seem kind of par for the course in that situation.

    But I like how you think.

  20. #220

    It seems to me that...

    while most of the discussion and speculation in this thread has been, understandably, about the remaining talent at UNC, this transfer might be a symptom of a greater problem. Also, there seems to be at least some acceptance that the team might be better off now and that Williams wanted them to leave. If Williams has the sense that God gives a goat, he cannot like the timing here.

    I look at this situation from a different perspective. From what I have read and heard, the Wear twins, talent aside, come from a pretty solid family background. Maybe the true significance of this event is that the Wears, including the Dad, are tired of Roy. What if this is indicative of further underlying tumult and chaos within the program? I have NO inside information and don't claim to, but I just get a feeling that things are worse in Hole Land than we might see. When allegedly good solid kids and their parents don't want to be associated with the program, my ears perk up.

    Just my .02.

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