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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by stillcrazie View Post
    I don't think it was a parody. The guy who says the line is someone we're supposed to like. This was the first episode I've seen, and the whole show really plays on your emotions. I think the writers threw in that line to make the character even more sympathetic.
    I thought about this issue a good bit late last evening. I didn't see the show last night, watched it once or twice early on, but not since, so have no clue as to which characters are more appealing than others.

    Still, having agreed to temporarily take the advice to chill out over the Nazi reference, I did wonder who said it, and what the viewers' feel for that character had been coming into the episode.

    So, I ask, as neutrally as possible: (1) Is stillcrazie correct that "The guy who says the line is someone we're supposed to like"? (2) If yes, is this - that the character hates Duke as much as he hates Nazis -or is it not worth being troubled about?
    Last edited by gumbomoop; 04-28-2010 at 01:27 PM. Reason: misspelling and misstatement

  2. #82
    I saw/heard that too. They were showing a Carolina game too but I was so mad that I didn't notice if that was one of this year's games with us or not.

    The nazi comment was so uncalled for so I am now a former Glee fan.

  3. #83

    Gumbo!

    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    I thought about this issue a good bit late last evening. I didn't see the show last night, watched it once or twice early on, but not since, so have no clue as to which characters are more appealing than others.

    Still, having agreed to temporarily take the advice to chill out over the Nazi reference, I did wonder who said it, and what the viewers' feel for that character had been coming into the episode.

    So, I ask, as neutrally as possible: (1) Is stillcrazie correct that "The guy who says the line is someone we're supposed to like"? (2) If yes, is this - that the character hates Duke as much as he hates Nazis -or is it not worth being troubled about?
    Hopefully you will get more responses to your questions besides mine. 1). I don't know the characters' names, but the guy who says the line is dating the mom of one of the students. The student's father died when he was a baby and his mom has never dated anyone since. They keep the father's urn in the house and have never moved on from his death. The kid is resentful of the guy dating his mom, who is also the father of another student who happens to be gay. At the end of the episode, the guy dating the mom makes an impassioned speech to the son about how he will never hurt his mother and really loves her. Then, as a gesture of reconciliation, they sit down together to watch the game. The son moves his father's ashes (egads!) so the guy can sit in his father's recliner. It is during this cumbaya moment that the guy proclaims his hate for Duke! As far as (2) goes, I suppose it is a matter of personal taste.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Mizzou, post-Quin
    Quote Originally Posted by stillcrazie View Post
    Hopefully you will get more responses to your questions besides mine. 1). I don't know the characters' names, but the guy who says the line is dating the mom of one of the students. The student's father died when he was a baby and his mom has never dated anyone since. They keep the father's urn in the house and have never moved on from his death. The kid is resentful of the guy dating his mom, who is also the father of another student who happens to be gay. At the end of the episode, the guy dating the mom makes an impassioned speech to the son about how he will never hurt his mother and really loves her. Then, as a gesture of reconciliation, they sit down together to watch the game. The son moves his father's ashes (egads!) so the guy can sit in his father's recliner. It is during this cumbaya moment that the guy proclaims his hate for Duke! As far as (2) goes, I suppose it is a matter of personal taste.
    While I'm not a Gleek, I guess the fact that I know that phrase actually makes me one.

    The father in question has been in one or two other episodes, most notably the one where his son comes out. He's portrayed as an old fashioned man... works as a mechanic, drinks beer, watches football. Will he approve of his son's orientation? Spoiler Alert: He does. "I've known since you were five" or some such heartwarming moment. The show is nothing if not melodramatic.

    I think the line from last night's episode was another way to use a stereotype. As Crazie pointed out, it's during a "bonding" moment between the father and the son of the woman he's now dating, who has been resentful of the new man in his mom's life. How can the father show he's an approachable guy? Hate on Duke.

    Personally, I think the line should have started and ended there, as in, "I hate Duke." And for a show as trendy as Glee is, they certainly could have followed it with "I hate Duke... they win all the time" (or some other reference to recent events) rather than the Nazi line, but a simple "I hate Duke" would have gotten the point across.

    Incidentally, great catch GP3NY. I slowed down the show to see if the light blue team was Carolina, and when I saw that it wasn't, I didn't even pay attention to the actual letters... NCTH and DBD. Oh, those clever Hollywood folk.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by grad_devil View Post
    Definitely was a point guard, and you're right about the thug who arranged the hard foul that caused the injury.

    Someone on DBR several years ago mentioned Coben's Myron Bolitar series and I've read every one. Quite entertaining, with witty self-deprecating humor. I highly recommend them.

    --grad_devil
    Nope, a forward. His unc antagonist was a PG.

    Yep, in Deal Breaker, the first book, it says somewhere early on that he's a forward.

    got it: page 44:

    "Myron was short for a forward, a program six-six (really only six-four), but he was a physical brute, a bull, and a hell of a leaper for a white man. He was highly recruited, chose Duke, and won two NCAA titles in four years."

  6. #86
    Yeah, shoutingncu is on the money. Kurt's dad is kind of a lummox, but a relatively lovable dude who accepted Kurt's homosexuality when it looked unlikely he'd do that. I'd say the line fits with his character as a "red blooded American."

    I still think ya'll are reading too far into it. (And I have no problem admitting it really is a good show! Netflix the first season on DVD and give it a shot. I won't tell anyone.)

    Props to the guy who appeared in "I Know What You Did Last Summer!" I'm going to take a closer look next time I see that.
    Last edited by Starter; 04-28-2010 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Giving props to the first season of Glee

  7. #87

    The WHOLE thing

    Quote Originally Posted by shoutingncu View Post
    While I'm not a Gleek, I guess the fact that I know that phrase actually makes me one.

    The father in question has been in one or two other episodes, most notably the one where his son comes out. He's portrayed as an old fashioned man... works as a mechanic, drinks beer, watches football. Will he approve of his son's orientation? Spoiler Alert: He does. "I've known since you were five" or some such heartwarming moment. The show is nothing if not melodramatic.

    I think the line from last night's episode was another way to use a stereotype. As Crazie pointed out, it's during a "bonding" moment between the father and the son of the woman he's now dating, who has been resentful of the new man in his mom's life. How can the father show he's an approachable guy? Hate on Duke.

    Personally, I think the line should have started and ended there, as in, "I hate Duke." And for a show as trendy as Glee is, they certainly could have followed it with "I hate Duke... they win all the time" (or some other reference to recent events) rather than the Nazi line, but a simple "I hate Duke" would have gotten the point across.

    Incidentally, great catch GP3NY. I slowed down the show to see if the light blue team was Carolina, and when I saw that it wasn't, I didn't even pay attention to the actual letters... NCTH and DBD. Oh, those clever Hollywood folk.
    So I re-wound the show last night - and TURNED IT UP. Because the dad was obviously saying something thought provoking and "dad-like" to Finn.

    The script was (more or less) this:

    Curt's Dad: Man, I hate Duke more than I hate the nazis.
    Finn: (pause) Yeah, tell me about it.
    CD: They recruit these guys...(fade out), and what they don't understand is that they're going to a college built entirely on tobacco."

    I love Glee, and I thought the reference to Duke hate was specific to the times, and something a surrogate dad would say to his girlfriend's son (who's on the varsity BB team).

    Not that the faded out script deviates from THAT particular premise, but the fact that they went after the tobacco stuff makes you realize that they're less about the sports - and more about just hating on the south.

    The game, itself, is between a Red/White team playing at home - and a sky-blue-esque team on the road. However,

    A) It is obviously an NBA-type arena
    B) It is NOT UNC (as it is not actually UNC colors)

    As someone mentioned, it is DBD vs. NCTH on the screen.

    I don't think this warrants any spate of hatemail to the Glee producers, but whomever put it in the script has an intense dislike of both Duke - AND the south.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by cf-62 View Post
    I don't think this warrants any spate of hatemail to the Glee producers, but whomever put it in the script has an intense dislike of both Duke - AND the south.
    You do realize, if a character in a television show, movie or book says something, it doesn't automatically mean that the writers of the show actually believe in whatever the character says.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    You do realize, if a character in a television show, movie or book says something, it doesn't automatically mean that the writers of the show actually believe in whatever the character says.
    EXACTLY, but I guess some people just love the feeling of being hated.

  10. #90

    cf-62

    Thanks for posting that. I totally missed the tobacco part.

    I am really surprised at all the Glee fans on this board. I am going to try watching it again, because there were some things I liked about the show and I'm intrigued by the buzz, but I really hated the melodramatic bursting-into-song-during-incredibly-emotionally-charged-situations. While I was watching it, I actually thought, "This is such a chick show," which I intended, in my own mind, as somewhat of an insult. And I am a female who prides herself on despising "chick beers" (e.g. Allagash White, Blue Moon) and knowing more about good beer (Bell's Two Hearted Ale, Founder's Dirty Bastard) and Duke basketball than most guys I know (participants on this board excepted). So, y'all are telling me that American men, Duke basketball fans no less, sit at home and watch Glee. Okay, now I am trying to picture you guys weeping into your kleenex during the songs. It's just not working for me.

  11. #91

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by bluepenguin View Post
    On tonight's episode two guys sit down to watch the game. We see Duke on the TV. One guy says "i hate duke like I hate the nazi's"

    I guess that makes up for "In the Middle" which predicted a Duke championship, before the final four.
    I give.
    What is Glee?

    BTW, I love your car tag. I am from Dekalb County as well.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Welcome2DaSlopes View Post
    EXACTLY, but I guess some people just love the feeling of being hated.
    I probably would misinterpret your point here, were to I try either to agree or disagree with it. So, instead, I'll jump off from it to say that in the vast majority of instances, I personally [as one person among a possible large set of "some people"] have been both irritated and amused by the ubiquitous Duke-hate.

    However, for me, and intending to speak for no one else, "vast majority" does not include explicit statements from the mouth of a sympathetic pop culture [?] character who implicitly compares Duke to Nazis.

    In my now-4 posts on this thread, I have said it's dangerous to compare loosely anyone/anything to Hitler and Nazis. I've come close to doing so myself in recent days, so I have to think carefully about my own glass house. [I willingly except "The Producers," but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, with "internal" outrage over songs such as "Springtime with Hitler" made quite explicit.]

    Most, though not quite all, posters seem less troubled than I about this scene and dialogue. I don't like it because, imo, it crosses a line not broached by even normally - make that abnormally - vicious Duke-hate. I don't intend to write to the folks who produce Glee, nor to the sponsors. Nor do I prefer to get into a pissing contest over this issue, so I'll hope to respect, if grudgingly, the different point of view of others, without adopting it.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    In my now-4 posts on this thread, I have said it's dangerous to compare loosely anyone/anything to Hitler and Nazis. I've come close to doing so myself in recent days, so I have to think carefully about my own glass house. [I willingly except "The Producers," but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish, with "internal" outrage over songs such as "Springtime with Hitler" made quite explicit.]

    Most, though not quite all, posters seem less troubled than I about this scene and dialogue. I don't like it because, imo, it crosses a line not broached by even normally - make that abnormally - vicious Duke-hate.
    I've thought a bit more about this in the past hour and I tend to agree. It bothers me less in terms of Duke-hate and more in terms of trivializing Hitler and Nazism. To compare anyone with them trivializes what they did, which should not be so glibly dismissed.

  14. #94
    Never heard of this show. The title of Glee itself sounds dumb.

  15. #95
    Man, you guys must have really hated American History X.

  16. #96
    Glee got pwned by Jon Stewart--the whole bit is actually pretty funny, with a tongue-in-cheek "Duke-Hating" theme.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...-2010/jock-rap

    (sorry you'll have to sit through a :30 commercial)
    Last edited by drdoctormd; 04-28-2010 at 09:53 PM. Reason: apologies for subjecting everyone to intertube ads

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    Man, you guys must have really hated American History X.
    For the record, I can't say I'd use the word "enjoy" to describe my take on "Am His X," but "hate," no. More like fascinated and unsettled by a brutal film about a disturbing phenomenon.

    I assume your comment here fits your previous advice to chill out. I accepted your counsel temporarily, and do think that this will simply die down. But it shouldn't go away because we collectively or individually imagine there's any resemblance between "Am His X" and a tongue-in-cheek social comedy. Even to call this an apples/oranges fallacy would understate the difference considerably.

    This thread - or at least the Glee stuff - will fade because of lack of interest in pursuing the real difference of opinion about whether the scene and dialogue in question was parody or not. I still do not know, but I've not succeeded in eliciting many straightforward responses to the questions I posed in post #81. I do not recant, unless and until persuaded by substantive argument. But I do relent and thus, for all intents and purposes, chill out.

    I promise [or threaten] to post more lightheartedly on other threads, where lightheartedness seems, to me, more appropriate.
    Last edited by gumbomoop; 04-28-2010 at 11:18 PM. Reason: add a thought

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by grossbus View Post
    Nope, a forward. His unc antagonist was a PG.

    Yep, in Deal Breaker, the first book, it says somewhere early on that he's a forward.

    got it: page 44:

    "Myron was short for a forward, a program six-six (really only six-four), but he was a physical brute, a bull, and a hell of a leaper for a white man. He was highly recruited, chose Duke, and won two NCAA titles in four years."
    Wow. To think that I've read all of those books and still was (nearly) positive he was a point guard; says quite a bit about my reading comprehension/retention.

    I think I'll blame it on the poster who wrote about these books in the off-topic board long ago...yeah, that's where I got it from

    Thanks for setting me straight, grossbus...

    --grad_devil

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    =
    I still do not know, but I've not succeeded in eliciting many straightforward responses to the questions I posed in post #81. I do not recant, unless and until persuaded by substantive argument. But I do relent and thus, for all intents and purposes, chill out.
    With AMX, I was just drawing a parallel -- intentionally a ridiculous one -- to people taking seriously what a fictional character in a show says or does. Listen man, it's all good, you don't have to recant anything in my book. We're all Duke fans here, I got nothing but love for any and all of you.

    (And besides, we have been known to agree -- I, for one, lean towards retiring Scheyer, FWIW)

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    In the movie "Me, Myself and Irene" one of the characters is trying to get into an Ivy league school, and his brother says something like "you better study or you'll end up at Duke."
    That's a pretty hilarious line that is somewhat true (although grades isn't the basis of most rejections).

    An example of smart and researched humor, unlike the shock material that was in Glee.

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