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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC

    Can we fight the tournament expansion?

    I know there are a lot of threads on the possible tournament expansion, but this thread to collect thoughts from all those opposed to see if we could/should try to get a collective voice to the NCAA that we don't want this. Should we stuff an inbox somewhere, blowup someone's voicemail etc.? I'm not positive, but I get the general feeling that most on this board are against the tournament expansion. I searched to see if anyone had put up a poll on this but I didn't find one. Maybe someone else knows, if not, maybe someone can post one for us.

    Anyway, I'm not one to usually get this involved in this type of discussion about possible changes to sports. I'm not one of those that screams for an NCAA football playoff every year(althought I'm for it), I don't root for or against instant replay in any sport, but college basketball has been near and dear to my heart for a long time, and I really think expansion beyond 64 teams will hurt the game, in the regular season, and the tournament.

    Back to the point: I want to get a collective voice from this board to find out just how many people that log on here are against it. If the number is big enough, maybe we can team up with other team boards across the country(even inside carolina, GASP!) and get enough people to make a ripple to get the NCAA to at least listen. As a matter of fact, Duke and Carolina fans coming together on something sports related should raise some flags somewhere.

    I just don't want to sit back and see this thing go to 96 teams and feel like I didn't try to do something to stop it. If we try and we fail, so be it. But I won't be able to live with myself if in the future, I'm watching the ACC regular season race wind down, and the middle-tier teams aren't fighting and scracthing to keep the tournament hopes alive.
    Last edited by left_hook_lacey; 04-15-2010 at 12:58 PM.

  2. #2
    I'm sure there are some petition sites that you could use...you can put my name down if you have any luck.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by cbnaylor View Post
    I'm sure there are some petition sites that you could use...you can put my name down if you have any luck.
    I took your advice and looked around for some petitions that had already been started.

    I've found a couple so far, but I don't know if they're worthy of getting hundreds or thousands or DBRers and other fan sites in the area to back them. I guess I'll keep looking until I find the best looking, well worded petition directed at the NCAA specifically. If I find something good, I'll post the link in here.

    This is a good start.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    At the risk of stating the obvious, the only way college basketball fans might impose their collective will is through actually reducing revenues for the universities, the conferences, the NCAA, the media (especially CBS, presuming they would retain broadcast rights), and the host-cities. This would require a strongly-held, close-to-unanimous opinion regarding Tournament expansion (which does not exist) and an organized campaign (who will plan, execute and fund?), neither of which are at all likely. Further, the aforecited entities probably believe expansion will provide a substantial financial windfall; while I am not sure they are correct, their aggregate vision of even greater basketball-derived income is – unfortunately – likely to be decisive. I do not like this, but I am afraid it is realistic.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by 4decadedukie View Post
    At the risk of stating the obvious, the only way college basketball fans might impose their collective will is through actually reducing revenues for the universities, the conferences, the NCAA, the media (especially CBS, presuming they would retain broadcast rights), and the host-cities. This would require a strongly-held, close-to-unanimous opinion regarding Tournament expansion (which does not exist) and an organized campaign (who will plan, execute and fund?), neither of which are at all likely. Further, the aforecited entities probably believe expansion will provide a substantial financial windfall; while I am not sure they are correct, their aggregate vision of even greater basketball-derived income is – unfortunately – likely to be decisive. I do not like this, but I am afraid it is realistic.
    This is all true, but I don't want to accept it. The fact that financial gain is the biggest driver of this wagon makes me cringe at it even more. I know, I know, money is GOD in this country, but sometimes, less is more, and I think this is one of those times. I just wish they(NCAA) could see that. Everybody likes ice cream, but eating a pint is much more enjoyable than eating 2 liters of it.

    One of the reasons the IMO that the NFL is so successful is because they play one game a week, and the hype, and build-up to Sunday is immense. Then, win or lose, fans have to sit on it for another week, and this snowballs until the playoffs. The NFL is considering expanding their season, which I also think is a mistake, for much of the same reasons the NCAA is trying to exand the tournament...dolla, dolla bills ya'll.

    But we're not gonna take it!(Queu Twisted Sister)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    We gotta take these bozos. Now we could do it with conventional weapons but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    We gotta take these bozos. Now we could do it with conventional weapons but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
    Way ahead of you.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Not only are the majority of DBR fans opposed to expansion, but the vast majority of all college b-ball fans are against it, not to mention coaches and probably players too. The only people who I think favor expansion would be those associated with mid-major schools or possibly schools like Virginia Tech who are often left outside of the bubble. But the only reason they favor it is because it helps them, not because it helps the game overall.

    It is mind-boggling that the NCAA knows this, yet they continue to push forth anyways. It's like if I ran a McDonald's and I knew that everyone hated McRibs and loved Big Mac's, but I continued to sell only McRibs because they made more money. Ok, bad analogy but you get the point...

    The only real "voice" that we have as fans is in our spending/viewing habits. If nobody watched the first two rounds of the expanded tournament then they wouldn't do it. In reality, I will still watch Duke play, but maybe I won't watch as many of the other games. Losing money is the only reason I could see for the NCAA to reverse this change, but unfortunately by the time the expanded tournament comes around they will already have their fat new contract with CBS so there will be no turning back.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Not only are the majority of DBR fans opposed to expansion, but the vast majority of all college b-ball fans are against it, not to mention coaches and probably players too. The only people who I think favor expansion would be those associated with mid-major schools or possibly schools like Virginia Tech who are often left outside of the bubble. But the only reason they favor it is because it helps them, not because it helps the game overall.
    You've got some of it backwards. Most coaches favor expansion for the selfish reason of job security (I can't begin to describe how much I despise college basketball coaches as a whole because of this). Mid-major fans are against it, because a lot of them are going to get screwed over with seeding. Some of the idiots favoring expansion are using Butler as an example of why it would be a good thing, but in reality Butler's run to the title supports the exact opposite case - that the tournament should SHRINK if anything.

    It's over. The tournament is expanding. The only hope I can possibly see is if it's such a complete and dismal financial failure the first year or two or three years that they have no sensible choice but to go back.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    First -- I am against this 96 team idea. I don't like it.

    All that being said, talk is that the tourney will start at the same time with the 9-24 seeds playing their 32 games on Thursday and Friday with the "old" round of 64 being played on Sat-Sun. The round of 32 would be played mid week, then we'd be back on schedule (or perhaps a Fri-Mon sweet 16 and final 8 to allow some space -- no reason you couldn't have 2 games on a Monday night). Final four would remain same.

    I take that Thursday and Friday off every year. 16 games a day is like heaven. So much so that the round of 32 is often kind of a let down. There's not as much basketball. Now I get 4 straight days of 16 do or die games? Sign me up!! Will the quality of play be as good? No. I am not sure that will matter, though.

    The question for CBS is going to be -- will enough people actually watch those first round games on a weekday when exactly ZERO of the top teams are playing (I will, but I am not normal when it comes to the tourney). The question for the NCAA is -- will people actually show up to the arenas? If ratings and gate are abysmal for those first round games, I imagine it might be a 1 year experiment.

    But if there are enough people out there like me that will watch anyway, then I wouldn't be surprised if we come to love it in 5 years.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    First -- I am against this 96 team idea. I don't like it.

    All that being said, talk is that the tourney will start at the same time with the 9-24 seeds playing their 32 games on Thursday and Friday with the "old" round of 64 being played on Sat-Sun. The round of 32 would be played mid week, then we'd be back on schedule (or perhaps a Fri-Mon sweet 16 and final 8 to allow some space -- no reason you couldn't have 2 games on a Monday night). Final four would remain same.

    I take that Thursday and Friday off every year. 16 games a day is like heaven. So much so that the round of 32 is often kind of a let down. There's not as much basketball. Now I get 4 straight days of 16 do or die games? Sign me up!! Will the quality of play be as good? No. I am not sure that will matter, though.

    The question for CBS is going to be -- will enough people actually watch those first round games on a weekday when exactly ZERO of the top teams are playing (I will, but I am not normal when it comes to the tourney). The question for the NCAA is -- will people actually show up to the arenas? If ratings and gate are abysmal for those first round games, I imagine it might be a 1 year experiment.

    But if there are enough people out there like me that will watch anyway, then I wouldn't be surprised if we come to love it in 5 years.
    They had a hard time filling some of the stadiums during the early rounds this year, even when some of the more high-profile teams were playing.

  12. #12
    Enjoy.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/bracket?id=5071629

    Every ACC team makes the hypothetical 96-team bracket.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Inman, SC & Fort Myers, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    We gotta take these bozos. Now we could do it with conventional weapons but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
    Toga party?

  14. #14
    I am in favor of a universal D-I tournament. The strength of the tournament is that it is nuts; are we at the perfect level of nuts; or will making it more nuts make it better? It's nuts to experiment, so let's experiment. Vive la crazy!

  15. #15
    Agreed. Let's invite everyone, and let's start the tournament on January 1. Imagine three whole MONTHS of craziness! That would be so much better than these boring conference games that don't mean anything.

    And if we start early, we can have a second or third tournament for the teams that get eliminated in the first few weeks. Put it on the Ocho! Imagine the ratings bonanza! Vive le crazy!

  16. #16
    Well, I can't imagine CBS wanting a 96 team field -- they only showed a few of the games at any given time anyway. Sounds like this is a tee up to ESPN, with their multiple channels.

    I really hate the idea. I think it takes alot of fun out of the regular season. I think it puts alot of stress on tired bodies of kids who have very little chance to go far into the tournament, and risks injury.

    I think its just a conspiracy to help the coaches keep their jobs.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 78Devil View Post
    Well, I can't imagine CBS wanting a 96 team field -- they only showed a few of the games at any given time anyway.
    Actually, CBS carried all of the games. In Durham they were on chanels 1051, 1052, 1053, and 1054. The growth of digital cable makes putting all the games on more of a possibility.

    That aside, I still hate the idea.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    What will be the bigger controversy --- the 1st team left out, or the 9 and 10 seeds complaining about not getting a bye over the 7-8 seeds?

    One good thing -- I think a "24" seed has a much better shot of beating a 9 seed than a 16 seed does of beating a 1. So I think that every team in the tourney has a chance to win a game.

    Yeah -- there are all sorts of big picture problems with this idea. Like I said, I don't like it. But 64 elimination games in 4 days - if that's the way they do it - will be phenomenal.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    If you have an extra $60 billion in the bank to give to the NCAA, I'm sure they'll happily keep the 64 tourney team...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

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