2012 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[Gewebe14]

Natty's are hard to come by, even for the best of the best programs. Odds are stacked against you. UNC will be a really good team provided Marshall stays healthy and things come together. Even then, the tourney is a crapshoot.

For some schools it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPvhOkEVmm0

[jipops]

If the Tony Parker decision doesn't go our way, what other big men will be available for us to give a look? Is it a bit concerning that we could be looking at a repeat of our 2007-08 struggles recruiting big men?

[Kedsy]

If the Tony Parker decision doesn't go our way, what other big men will be available for us to give a look? Is it a bit concerning that we could be looking at a repeat of our 2007-08 struggles recruiting big men?

My guess is the smart move would be to turn to 2013 big men at that point.

[-bdbd]

If the Tony Parker decision doesn't go our way, what other big men will be available for us to give a look? Is it a bit concerning that we could be looking at a repeat of our 2007-08 struggles recruiting big men?

I think the "wait til next year" theory has a lot of merit, as it is really too late to get seriously involved with most, but there are a few still uncommitted kids we could jump on, however unlikely that is. But the pickings are a bit slim, as most top-100 kids have already committed... There have been a couple in the top-60 or so that you occasionally hear that Duke is "staying in touch with." But I wonder if there's ANY chance that we'd get back in it with a kid (who we'd stepped away from earlier): Alex Poythress (6'8" 200 lb). Separately, I hear there's a top-25 calibur WF/BF kid from Boston who was listed in this class a couple years ago that we might have a pretty good shot at, name of Alex Murphy...

But we do have an excellent shot with TP, and we are looking VERY strong with a number of top recruits for the 2013 class.

This is Scout's top-60 or so for the 2012 class (I hope I'm committing no sins by posting this public list here):

[list redacted for copyright]

[dukedoc]

Per Zags - Shabazz will visit when Cameron will be at its craziest

@AdamZagoria
Adam Zagoria
Shabbaz Muhammad will visit Duke March 3 for the Carolina game, his father told SNY.tv.

[Steven43]

I, for one, think there is little question that having an intimidating space-eater inside would have prevented Arizona from draining 60% of their threes against us. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise.

-Jason "I keed, I keed" Evans

I'm not sure what game you were watching, but in the game I watched Duke did not lose primarily because of Arizona's three-pointers. We lost that game because they DOMINATED us on the inside. They got the rebounds that mattered most, our inside game on offense was virtually non-existent, and they penetrated into the lane and to the basket with ease. Nobody stepped up to challenge them on the inside. You'd better believe that a big and intimidating player such as Tony Parker would have made a huge difference. I could not disagree more with those who keep insisting that we'll be fine with what we have. Yeah, if you want to lose in the round of 16 again. I want Duke to win national championships. We weren't fine last year against Arizona in the biggest game of the year and we'll be even less fine next year if we don't get Tony Parker. His presence on the inside, in combination with the rest of our talented roster, would give us a legitimate shot at winning it all.

[MCFinARL]

Per Zags - Shabazz will visit when Cameron will be at its craziest

@AdamZagoria
Adam Zagoria
Shabbaz Muhammad will visit Duke March 3 for the Carolina game, his father told SNY.tv.

So much for the supposed "bad news" that Duke was off his list because his father forgot to include it in a list of 7 schools he mentioned in a recent interview. Glad we can put that to rest.

Of course, maybe "Shabbaz" Muhammad is a different guy from Shabazz Muhammad...

[CDu]

I'm not sure what game you were watching, but in the game I watched Duke did not lose primarily because of Arizona's three-pointers.

Arizona shot 9-15 on 3pt attempts. Their big man shot 5-6 on 3pt attempts. So while it wasn't the ONLY reason we lost, it was a pretty darn big reason.

Also, Williams regularly beat our bigs off the dribble to get to the rim. I'm not seeing how Parker (who is not known in any circles as quick) would have helped.

I'd say the combination of 3pt shooting, beating players off the dribble, and having more athletic players at the 4 were the difference. And none of those are areas that Tony Parker serves as an improvement.

our inside game on offense was virtually non-existent, and they penetrated into the lane and to the basket with ease. Nobody stepped up to challenge them on the inside.

Our offense was in no way the problem in that game. We scored 77 points on 47% shooting from the field and 82% shooting from the line. The problem was entirely on the other end.

Also, the dribble penetration is primarily an issue for the perimeter defense. Tony Parker isn't changing that.

And Mason had 4 blocks (and one more that should have been a block but was called a foul), Miles had 1 block, and Singler had 1 block. So I'd disagree with your assessment that nobody stepped up to challenge them on the inside. I can't imagine Parker (who isn't known as a shotblocker) doing more to challenge drives than Mason did in that game.

You'd better believe that a big and intimidating player such as Tony Parker would have made a huge difference. I could not disagree more with those who keep insisting that we'll be fine with what we have. Yeah, if you want to lose in the round of 16 again. I want Duke to win national championships. We weren't fine last year against Arizona in the biggest game of the year and we'll be even less fine next year if we don't get Tony Parker. His presence on the inside, in combination with the rest of our talented roster, would give us a legitimate shot at winning it all.

I think you might be overstating what Tony Parker brings to the table. He's a highly-valued recruit and I certainly hope he chooses us. But he doesn't sound like the game-changing intimidating presence (certainly not on the defensive end) that you suggest we lacked.

[Steven43]

Yeah, it would really suck if one year after a five-man, #2 in the nation recruiting class, we'd have to "settle" for only getting two top 20 recruits.

I don't know why you're mentioning the 2011 class when the discussion concerns 2012. And I too would be quite happy and content to have Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker commit to Duke for 2012. The point I was trying to make was that if McGary and Muhammad are no longer considering Duke (and at the time I wrote the post Shabazz's dad had just read off a list of possibles for his son that did NOT include Duke), then our only remaining recruiting target for 2012 would be Tony Parker. Like I said, I'd be more than happy with a 2012 class of Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker, but I would be concerned if the entire class of 2012 is Rasheed Sulaimon. Yes, Rasheed appears to be a very good player, but he does not fill our greatest need which is an intimidating inside presence on both offense and defense.

[UrinalCake]

So who would be a good player comp for Tony Parker?

[NSDukeFan]

I don't know why you're mentioning the 2011 class when the discussion concerns 2012. And I too would be quite happy and content to have Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker commit to Duke for 2012. The point I was trying to make was that if McGary and Muhammad are no longer considering Duke (and at the time I wrote the post Shabazz's dad had just read off a list of possibles for his son that did NOT include Duke), then our only remaining recruiting target for 2012 would be Tony Parker. Like I said, I'd be more than happy with a 2012 class of Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker, but I would be concerned if the entire class of 2012 is Rasheed Sulaimon. Yes, Rasheed appears to be a very good player, but he does not fill our greatest need which is an intimidating inside presence on both offense and defense.

I am not Kedsy, but I believe he may have mentioned the 2011 class, because at Duke and most schools (other than Kentucky) it is not individual recruiting classes that play the games, but 4 classes at a time. If Duke has 5 very good players in one class, 4 of whom are likely to stay 3 or 4 years, it likely does not need to have a great big class the following year, 2012. I expect you know this so am wondering why you were questioning the mention of Duke's deep recruiting class when discussing the importance of more recruits in the 2012 class. Of course, I would like to have Tony Parker in the 2012 class, but do not expect he would have a huge impact his freshman year if he chooses Duke, but think he could have a great impact over his college career.

[Jim3k]

I'm not sure what game you were watching, but in the game I watched Duke did not lose primarily because of Arizona's three-pointers. We lost that game because they DOMINATED us on the inside. They got the rebounds that mattered most, our inside game on offense was virtually non-existent, and they penetrated into the lane and to the basket with ease. Nobody stepped up to challenge them on the inside. You'd better believe that a big and intimidating player such as Tony Parker would have made a huge difference. I could not disagree more with those who keep insisting that we'll be fine with what we have. Yeah, if you want to lose in the round of 16 again. I want Duke to win national championships. We weren't fine last year against Arizona in the biggest game of the year and we'll be even less fine next year if we don't get Tony Parker. His presence on the inside, in combination with the rest of our talented roster, would give us a legitimate shot at winning it all.

Well, you have a somewhat valid point. But you do not note that Duke was doing quite well at the half, leading by 6, when early in the second half Seth was knocked out of the game. That changed Duke's depth, its perimeter attack and affected its perimeter defense as well. Still, Williams had been throwing balls into the basket from everywhere, particularly his bomb as the half expired. He was having a Bootsy moment and his team became inspired. UofA shot 54 percent and made 9 of 15 3-pointers (60%), including five by Williams.

Eventually, we wore down as they outscored us by 22 in the second half. But with Seth out, they could focus on Nolan Smith, who had an uncharacteristically weak ballhandling afternoon with his 6 TOs. Irving tried his best to make up for it, but probably made a mistake when he took it all on his shoulders. I liked his heart, but his inexperience showed, despite his 28 points. He needed to find the bigs; Mason had 8, Miles 2 and Kelly zero. We needed offensive balance to prevent Zona from shutting Nolan down (only 3 for 14, 8 pts).

Despite that, the Wildcats played way over their heads against us and may well have won even if we had played better; they came back to earth against UCon.

[Kedsy]

I don't know why you're mentioning the 2011 class when the discussion concerns 2012. And I too would be quite happy and content to have Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker commit to Duke for 2012. The point I was trying to make was that if McGary and Muhammad are no longer considering Duke (and at the time I wrote the post Shabazz's dad had just read off a list of possibles for his son that did NOT include Duke), then our only remaining recruiting target for 2012 would be Tony Parker. Like I said, I'd be more than happy with a 2012 class of Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker, but I would be concerned if the entire class of 2012 is Rasheed Sulaimon. Yes, Rasheed appears to be a very good player, but he does not fill our greatest need which is an intimidating inside presence on both offense and defense.

The reason the 2011 class is relevant is after a big class, the next class is often a small one. This was the case in 1998 (just Maggette), in 2000 (just Duhon) and in 2003 (just Deng), all of which came after big (four or five or six man) recruiting classes (in 1997, 1999, and 2002). So based on history it would not be unusual or concerning if all we have in 2012 is one top ten recruit (and certainly not if we have two top twenty recruits).

[Kedsy]

I could not disagree more with those who keep insisting that we'll be fine with what we have. Yeah, if you want to lose in the round of 16 again. I want Duke to win national championships. We weren't fine last year against Arizona in the biggest game of the year and we'll be even less fine next year if we don't get Tony Parker. His presence on the inside, in combination with the rest of our talented roster, would give us a legitimate shot at winning it all.

The rarest commodities in college basketball are unstoppable, back-to-the-basket centers and ultra-quick, pass-first point guards. There are very few of them, everybody wants them, and they tend to go pro after a year or two. Why are people surprised and upset when we don't have these sorts of player on the roster every season?

You speak of championships, but in Duke's four championship game wins, the starting centers were: Christian Laettner (twice), Casey Sanders, and Brian Zoubek. None of whom was the beastly, back-to-the-basket behemoth you insist is necessary to win a national championship.

(And yes, I know Carlos Boozer was the "real" starting center on the 2001 team, but I also know Boozer was the third or fourth option on offense for that team and that due to injury he scored only 3 post-season points prior to the Final Four. That team certainly didn't ride to glory on the shoulders of our massive monster in the middle. Ironically, the next season, when Boozer actually was the 2nd option, Duke lost in the Sweet 16, as we did in 2006 when Shelden Williams was our 2nd option.)

If Coach K has taught us anything it's that a master chef can make great food with whatever ingredients he has available. Your insistence that we are doomed to failure unless one #22 rated recruit decides to come here is really hard to credit.

[BD80]

... I would be concerned if the entire class of 2012 is Rasheed Sulaimon. Yes, Rasheed appears to be a very good player, but he does not fill our greatest need which is an intimidating inside presence on both offense and defense.

This is where I get a bit confused. How many teams in college bball currently have such a player?

[CDu]

Yes, Rasheed appears to be a very good player, but he does not fill our greatest need which is an intimidating inside presence on both offense and defense.

You keep mentioning Parker as an intimidating presence on defense. But nothing I've seen written nor any of the (limited) video footage I've seen of him suggests he's an intimidating defensive presence. He's reportedly a space-eater who has a nice touch around the basket. But he's not quick, not explosive, and plays below the rim.

Don't get me wrong - I very much hope he chooses Duke. But I feel like you (and you're not alone) have the wrong impression of what he'll bring.

[CDu]

So who would be a good player comp for Tony Parker?

Maybe kind of a Reggie Johnson type?

Note: not saying he'd produce as well as Johnson did last year, because Johnson was a stud for Miami. But that type of player (good touch around the basket, can carve out space, not a quick/explosive athlete, has stamina questions).

[Devilsfan]

From the be careful what you wish for department.... We've got a big this year. Everyone's still waiting to see him step on the court.

[COYS]

I don't know why you're mentioning the 2011 class when the discussion concerns 2012. And I too would be quite happy and content to have Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker commit to Duke for 2012. The point I was trying to make was that if McGary and Muhammad are no longer considering Duke (and at the time I wrote the post Shabazz's dad had just read off a list of possibles for his son that did NOT include Duke), then our only remaining recruiting target for 2012 would be Tony Parker. Like I said, I'd be more than happy with a 2012 class of Rasheed Sulaimon and Tony Parker, but I would be concerned if the entire class of 2012 is Rasheed Sulaimon. Yes, Rasheed appears to be a very good player, but he does not fill our greatest need which is an intimidating inside presence on both offense and defense.

Our 2010 team probably had less overall athleticism than the 2011 team. The 2010 team beat Baylor, a team that may have actually had more overall athleticism at all positions on the floor than the 2011 Zona team, in front of an almost homecourt crowd when the stakes were even higher. The 2011 team also went 2 for 3 against a UNC team that had two athletic and very tall front court players in Zeller and Henson. One of those wins was an absolute smack down.

My point is not that last year's team was perfect, but simply that it is deceiving to put too much weight on one game in the season. Arizona played an almost perfect second half of basketball. Their offensive rating for that game was better than any game Arizona played all season against meaningful competition . . . in fact, I would be willing to bet it is the best Arizona has played against a quality opponent in the last five years. It was an outlier game. Similarly, our defense in that game was atrocious to the point of being an outlier. If I'm not mistaken, Kenpom knocked our defense all the way from third down to eighth following that game. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap and say that we got outplayed, which is exactly what happened. UNC would've gotten blown out the same way in that game . . . maybe even moreso. Zona simply couldn't miss on their jump shots, which opened up driving lanes and got us playing too fast for our comfort level trying to catch up. Recall that Arizona shot poorly on their jumpers in the next game and went home. It was painful, but I'd be careful about making too much out of our loss to Arizona.

[norra5]

I just wanted to let you guys know that zagsblog.com is reporting that Shabazz Muhammad is coming to Duke for a OFFICIAL VISIT on March 3 why is that so special? Its because that is the day Duke is gonna kill UNC. This also means that he probaly wont decide till after this vist and that this visit might be his last official visit.