2012 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[BD80]

Just to chime in...I absolutely think Roy coached Hans into the lottery. ...

When he arrived, Hans only had the shuffle-left. ol' roy taught him to shuffle right, shuffle back, shuffle forward, and how to dance. ol' roy also taught hans to get in touch with his feelings so he could communicate to the refs his disappointment in not getting every call. The "puss-in-boots" big weepy eye look must have taken some serious coaching.

[CameronBlue]

When he arrived, Hans only had the shuffle-left. ol' roy taught him to shuffle right, shuffle back, shuffle forward, and how to dance. ol' roy also taught hans to get in touch with his feelings so he could communicate to the refs his disappointment in not getting every call. The "puss-in-boots" big weepy eye look must have taken some serious coaching.

Don't forget he also taught him the spontaneous nose bleed. It's tricky though you can only go to the well once with that one.

[Kedsy]

Who do you think would start over him?

If McGary doesn't come to Duke, and assuming Mason leaves after this year, I expect Ryan to be the starting center in 2012-13. I expect Alex to start at PF. Note that when it comes to positions, in my mind it's all about whether you can defend the position. I am confident that Ryan as a senior will be able to defend almost all opposing college centers. I hope Alex gets strong enough to guard opposing 4s by next year. I expect that Marshall will be able to put in solid rotation minutes by next year as well.

I think if Parker came to Duke he'd play decent minutes. I just don't think he'd start until his sophomore year.

[wilko]

I think if Parker came to Duke he'd play decent minutes. I just don't think he'd start until his sophomore year.

Hard to say..
Injuries are always a risk as we learned last year. Seth and Andre had to adjust. Adversity creates opportunities.
Also it depends on the guys work ethic and the energy he brings to the court when his number is called. How well he "gets it" and is productive in his role.. Thats not a TP statement solely, its seemingly that way for anybody to get PT.

Also Match-ups would play a part. who is slumping, who is hot and how to present the opposition with a confusing set to take them out of rhythm.

Bottom line; if he (or anyone else) works hard enuff and gets positive results, it'll be hard to keep him off the court.

[CDu]

Good post. I was a freshman with you when Elton arrived, and I remember watching him destroy everyone -- including returning NBA players -- in pickup games on East Campus Gym and thinking that he was going to be absolutely dominant right away. He was a ready-made player from Day 1, and I would contend if he left after his first season, he'd have been a top 10 pick -- had he not broken his foot. His learning curve was that good. He'd scored in double digits in every game to that point, but wasn't the same conditioning-wise after returning from the injury. He of course showed up as a bona fide NBA All-Star caliber player for the beginning of his sophomore year.

Agreed completely on Boozer. He, too, was very skilled and mature as a freshman. He got better at the same rate that his opportunity to contribute went up.

And I'm with you: I'd love to say it was Duke's coaching that made both of them what they were, but they were very good players the minute they walked on campus and I'd think they'd have continued on that path virtually anywhere. That said, as we all know, Duke is no question a terrific environment for a burgeoning player.

Agreed on all counts. I don't mean to come across as suggesting Coach K and the Duke staff over the years haven't been great for their players' development. We obviously have a fantastic coaching staff at Duke. I just think that Boozer and Brand happen to not be the best examples of this, as I think those guys were destined for the NBA regardless of where they played their college ball.

[Kedsy]

Hard to say..
Injuries are always a risk as we learned last year. Seth and Andre had to adjust. Adversity creates opportunities.
Also it depends on the guys work ethic and the energy he brings to the court when his number is called. How well he "gets it" and is productive in his role.. Thats not a TP statement solely, its seemingly that way for anybody to get PT.

Also Match-ups would play a part. who is slumping, who is hot and how to present the opposition with a confusing set to take them out of rhythm.

Bottom line; if he (or anyone else) works hard enuff and gets positive results, it'll be hard to keep him off the court.

Good points. It wouldn't surprise me if he starts a few games, due to injury or having a great week at practice or matchups. I was talking about him being the main starter at his position.

Who knows, the guy might make a quantum leap his senior year of high school, as well. The only reason I said anything was I think some people are going overboard over this kid. I'm sure eventually he'll be a good (maybe even great) college player. But to talk about him being the first pick in the NBA draft after two years in college (as someone did a few posts ago) is unrealistic for a kid at Parker's current high school ranking. It's not like nobody has seen the kid. If his game were ready for him to be a college star right off the bat, the recruiting gurus would know it. He'd be a top 5, or at least top 10 prospect, but right now that's not him (he's #22 in the RSCI).

And, yes, I realize Derrick Williams went from #100 RSCI to #2 in the NBA draft in two years, but he's very much the exception. It's possible but very unlikely to happen for Tony Parker or any other non-top 10 prospect.

[CDu]

Just to chime in...I absolutely think Roy coached Hans into the lottery. He got better every year, and no way without the focus Roy had the team put on him does he make the lottery.

I disagree on Hansbrough. I'd argue that his game changed very little over his four years. His production remained incredibly consistent over his four years. As a freshman, he averaged 18.9 points and 7.8 rebounds in 30.4 mpg while shooting 57%. As a senior, he averaged 20.7 points and 8.1 rebounds per 30.3 minutes while shooting 51%. Hansbrough is one of the rare examples of a player whose productivity and skill set remained nearly identical from his freshman year to his senior year.

As for his draft stock, I think Hansbrough might have been a lottery pick as a freshman given the low quality of the 2006 draft and given how well he played (and given that "upside" is so valuable). I'd say Williams had very little to do with Hansbrough making it.

And I agree with CDu that coach K made Boozer a better player and helped him get to the NBA as a higher pick...maybe he gets that good somewhere else, but he definitely did at Duke, so ya gotta give coach K credit.

Actually, I think you disagree with me here. I was one of the ones suggesting Coach K had less to do with Boozer's reaching the NBA. In fact, I'd argue that staying at Duke for 3 years may have hurt his draft stock. He might have gone in the first round as a freshman. As a junior, he fell to the second round (due to the "lack of upside" theory).

[wilko]

Good points. It wouldn't surprise me if he starts a few games, due to injury or having a great week at practice or matchups. I was talking about him being the main starter at his position.

If his game were ready for him to be a college star right off the bat, the recruiting gurus would know it. He'd be a top 5, or at least top 10 prospect, but right now that's not him (he's #22 in the RSCI).

Lets just say for sake of argument that Duke gets all the guys remaining on its wishlist. If the NBA labor agreement ends the 1yr rule... how many signees just go for another year of prep school and by-pass college altogether? Where would that leave Duke.. and how would it change the landscape of college Bball?

Things lurking out there that we cant know right now..

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I disagree on Hansbrough. I'd argue that his game changed very little over his four years. His production remained incredibly consistent over his four years. As a freshman, he averaged 18.9 points and 7.8 rebounds in 30.4 mpg while shooting 57%. As a senior, he averaged 20.7 points and 8.1 rebounds per 30.3 minutes while shooting 51%. Hansbrough is one of the rare examples of a player whose productivity and skill set remained nearly identical from his freshman year to his senior year.

As for his draft stock, I think Hansbrough might have been a lottery pick as a freshman given the low quality of the 2006 draft and given how well he played (and given that "upside" is so valuable). I'd say Williams had very little to do with Hansbrough making it.



Actually, I think you disagree with me here. I was one of the ones suggesting Coach K had less to do with Boozer's reaching the NBA. In fact, I'd argue that staying at Duke for 3 years may have hurt his draft stock. He might have gone in the first round as a freshman. As a junior, he fell to the second round (due to the "lack of upside" theory).

We'll have to friendly disagree on Han's improvement over the years. His 12' face up jumper that he has developed and using in the NBA was nowhere to be found his early years. And I'd argue his stats were skewed by the quality of players around him his last two seasons.

On Boozer, I guess I misread your post. I agree that he would have been an NBA player anywhere he went. But I thought he did get better while at Duke, ..and didn't he have injury issues too that affected his draft?...so when players improve and stay more than 1 year, I think we have to give the coaching staff credit for that improvement..

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Nerlens Noel, a top 2013 big man, will not reclassify for the 2012 class.

[SilkyJ]

No surprise here, but Watzone tweeted that MM is officially leaning to UM and not looking good for Duke.

I can now say that Michigan is the favorite to land Mithc McGary. Not looking good on this one. The football school is in good shape

[dukedoc]

No surprise here, but Watzone tweeted that MM is officially leaning to UM and not looking good for Duke.

Alas... at least we won't need to replace any shattered backboards - those things are expensive!

Anyone hear anything new about Tony "poker face" Parker?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Alas... at least we won't need to replace any shattered backboards - those things are expensive!

Roy did a 2nd "in home" and visited with McGary and Warren yesterday at Brewster...

[-bdbd]

We'll have to have to friendly disagree on Han's improvement over the years. His 12' face up jumper that he has developed and using in the NBA was nowhere to be found his early years. And I'd argue his stats were skewed by the quality of players around him his last two seasons.

On Boozer, I guess I misread your post. I agree that he would have been an NBA player anywhere he went. But I thought he did get better while at Duke, ..and didn't he have injury issues too that affected his draft?...so when players improve and stay more than 1 year, I think we have to give the coaching staff credit for that improvement..

Please don't forget that TH was a "top-5" recruit coming out of High School in MO, according to a couple of recruiting services. So the argument can be made that, without NCAA/NBA restrictions, he could have been a lottery pick straight out of H.S. But it isn't like he was an unskilled High Schooler who came out of nowhere, unllike a certain PF out of SoCal and U of Arizona that we know about all too well... Another thing to keep in mind is that the NBA draft isn't a science and isn't alwaays (ever?) based on college pefprmance or production. So often a younger kid (e.g. college 1-and-done) gets drafted before college seniors with better production numbers, as "potential upside" so often rules the day. Also, the intangibles can sometimes go undervalued. So, very hard to objectively evaluate if TH improved his value during college under Huck. It is actually entirely possible that a kid DOES learn some new skills, yet actually gets drafted lower as a result of stcking around extra time. Such is the NBA draft. (Though I'd hope that those extra skills will help them long-term in sticking longer and being more productive in the Association.)

One Duke kid that I always heard it argued DIDN'T stick around long enough was Will Avery, who left with Magette, et al, but wasn't ready (a PG who lacked the ability to drive both sides). As a result, I think he just lasted through his original (3-yr.?) contract and was off to lesser adventures (than the NBA). Had he stuck around Duke another year or two could K and staff have taught him those extra skills? Who knows??

[dukeballboy88]

AAU coaches scare me. How can an AAU coach trump your parents??? First Tony Parkers AAU coach gets hired at UCLA and I bet Michigan said give us MM and you will have a job too.

Im going to see if I can field a AAU team and pay some top notch talent to play on my team. Then cut a deal with some shady school and try to work my way up the coaching ranks.

PS. That last line was a joke. I would never use a kid to get paid of his talents.

[ACCBBallFan]

There is no doubt that Tyler Hansbrough got better while in college, became a better outside shooter, top scorer in ACC history with 2872 points, etc.

The debate would be whether that would have happened anywhere due to his tremendous work ethic and relentless pursuit of the ball and the basket.

That's the same debate with JJ and his 2.769 points second overall ACC scorer, improved go to the basket moves, superb conditioning and of course deadly 3 point shooting.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The change in this board's perception, or at least some postings, of Hans's skills that I'm seeing now compared to comments here over the four years he was at UNC, should be enough to prove the point that he got better.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

That's the same debate with JJ and his 2.769 points second overall ACC scorer, improved go to the basket moves, superb conditioning and of course deadly 3 point shooting.

Right, And coach K deserves credit for making JJ a better player, along with JJ himself.

[UrinalCake]

There is so much more to what makes an NBA player than just the raw skills they have coming out of high school. Teamwork, work ethic, knowledge of the game - these are all things that the coaching staff imparts on a player and contribute to him becoming successful at the next level. Just because Brand dominated a pick-up game doesn't mean he wouldn't become a train wreck once he entered the League. Look at Tractor Traylor, he outplayed Brand in both of their matchups, yet never made it in the NBA. (side note - Tell McGary to look at Traylor's career at Michigan and compare it to Brand's, then decide where to go to school!). Also, when choosing a school a player needs to consider things like TV exposure, strength of competition, and in some cases, quality of the medical staff.

Take Brand. If he were at any other school than Duke he would have lost almost his entire freshman year. I mean this literally - the only reason he could come back is because of an experimental electroshock treatment that was only being done at the Duke hospital. Now he probably would have made it to the NBA anyways, but doesn't getting to play an additional half of a season mean that the choice of going to Duke was a pretty good one for him?

In Boozer's case, he was injured less severely his sophomore year. Coach K did a masterful job running the team in his absence, so when he returned they were in good position to make their title run. Maybe a lesser coach doesn't do that and the team is unable to stay afloat until Boozer returns. He never shows his stuff on a national stage or becomes a champion.

I realize I'm getting a little off topic here but my point is that the choice of school is not irrelevant, and can very much make or break a player regardless of how talented he is.

[CDu]

The change in this board's perception, or at least some postings, of Hans's skills that I'm seeing now compared to comments here over the four years he was at UNC, should be enough to prove the point that he got better.

Of course he got better. Virtually every player gets better. I was just saying that Hansbrough got better by less than many/most college players, and way less than you're suggesting. And I think the amount he got better would have happened wherever he went.