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  1. #3561
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I am actually amazed at how many people tell me they hate Duke because we have "annoying white guys" on the team. I'm not sure why race matters, but it does. The same people that tell me this - Unc fans mostly - dont seem to realize the annoying white guys at the end of their bench. I guess since Duke's white guys play, we're not cool and we're annoying.

    Who knows. Just keep winning and let the haters feel stupid.
    Duke is not "cool" because our style of play isn't cool. We play grind it out games instead of creating steals, getting out on the break and making highlight dunks. '91-92 had Grant Hill, Tony Lang, Brian Davis and Thomas Hill with Hurley as the maestro. This is what we need to get back to. Of course, we need a Hurley-esque pg and we need guys who can defend and run the break like the above-mentioned (a very tall order indeed). However, maybe next year we can get back to that with some improvement from Quinn and Gbinije, Saluaimon, Murphey and perhaps Bazz filling the lanes...

  2. #3562
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I am actually amazed at how many people tell me they hate Duke because we have "annoying white guys" on the team. I'm not sure why race matters, but it does. The same people that tell me this - Unc fans mostly - dont seem to realize the annoying white guys at the end of their bench. I guess since Duke's white guys play, we're not cool and we're annoying.

    Who knows. Just keep winning and let the haters feel stupid.
    The interesting sociological aspect to me is that if you put a bunch of white guys on a team like St. Mary's or Creighton or (before they became well known) Gonzaga, they are LOVED by fans. Having a moppy head of hair doesn't hurt, either, it seems. The underdog white guy gets all sorts of love. The white guy as favorite doesn't.

    Redick would have been a folk hero had he played at Wichita State instead of Duke and shot someone like Louisville or Georgetown or UConn out of the tournament, all the while strutting around the court and trash talking like crazy. But put the letters "D-U-K-E" on his jersey and he becomes a villain. Just the way it goes. But it's a really interesting dynamic to me.

    Note: the other interesting thing is that I believe this is more of an issue amongst the white fan demographic. Not that race should make a difference either way - just something interesting I've observed in my limited experience.

  3. #3563
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    The interesting sociological aspect to me is that if you put a bunch of white guys on a team like St. Mary's or Creighton or (before they became well known) Gonzaga, they are LOVED by fans. Having a moppy head of hair doesn't hurt, either, it seems. The underdog white guy gets all sorts of love. The white guy as favorite doesn't.

    Redick would have been a folk hero had he played at Wichita State instead of Duke and shot someone like Louisville or Georgetown or UConn out of the tournament, all the while strutting around the court and trash talking like crazy. But put the letters "D-U-K-E" on his jersey and he becomes a villain. Just the way it goes. But it's a really interesting dynamic to me.

    Got that right. Contrast JJ with Jimmer.

  4. #3564
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeFanSince1990 View Post
    In my experience the people who say that are always white....But my own opinion is they (UNC fans mostly) HATE Duke because the Devils actually compete against them year in and year out. But it doesn't sound good to say we hate you because your as good as we are.
    I live in Philadelphia, and a lot of people here tell me they hate Duke. And they're not UNC fans (well, a couple of them are, but I discount their opinions).

  5. #3565
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    Duke is not "cool" because our style of play isn't cool. We play grind it out games instead of creating steals, getting out on the break and making highlight dunks. '91-92 had Grant Hill, Tony Lang, Brian Davis and Thomas Hill with Hurley as the maestro. This is what we need to get back to. Of course, we need a Hurley-esque pg and we need guys who can defend and run the break like the above-mentioned (a very tall order indeed). However, maybe next year we can get back to that with some improvement from Quinn and Gbinije, Saluaimon, Murphey and perhaps Bazz filling the lanes...
    I don't understand why folks insist on saying we need to "get back to" any particular style of play. Let's see, we have the 9th most efficient offense in the country according to Kenpom. We have the 16th highest PPG in raw scoring numbers. K recruits talent. We don't always get every talented player we want. Thus, K adapts. This has been discussed ad nauseam.

    If 77.5 PPG is "grinding it out" then what in the world do we say about the B10? I personally thank god we don't have to watch games all season with scores like 52-48. But even so, those B10 schools sure seem to attract a lot of talent despite their "grind it out" style. I just don't see the relevance in saying we need to play a certain style - either to succeed on the court or succeed in recruiting.

    I mean, we've won 27 games so far this season. In the end, does it really matter how we win them? Or just that we win them, style points and everything else aside...

  6. #3566
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    The interesting sociological aspect to me is that if you put a bunch of white guys on a team like St. Mary's or Creighton or (before they became well known) Gonzaga, they are LOVED by fans. Having a moppy head of hair doesn't hurt, either, it seems. The underdog white guy gets all sorts of love. The white guy as favorite doesn't.

    Redick would have been a folk hero had he played at Wichita State instead of Duke and shot someone like Louisville or Georgetown or UConn out of the tournament, all the while strutting around the court and trash talking like crazy. But put the letters "D-U-K-E" on his jersey and he becomes a villain. Just the way it goes. But it's a really interesting dynamic to me.

    Note: the other interesting thing is that I believe this is more of an issue amongst the white fan demographic. Not that race should make a difference either way - just something interesting I've observed in my limited experience.
    I think the bolded is the key. White fans like to root for everyday-looking white kids out of small schools to topple the big boys, because they just kind of see them as an extension of themselves. But once you cement your status as a big boy - in Duke's case, a blueblood - that sentiment turns to jealousy ("I can do the things JJ Redick does, how come he's gets to start for Duke and be considered in the same echelon as big-time athletes like Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy?")

    America likes its floppy-haired white boys as Cinderella stories, not as supposed Goliaths.

    I thought the 91/92 documentary was a great reminder. We were LOADED with 6'5-6'8 athletes who could run as fast and jump as high as anybody, we they got up and down the floor "like the Showtime Lakers". They also had that swagger and overwhelming confidence and will to win. Something tells me if that were the case in 2012, we'd be a little "cooler".

  7. #3567
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    I don't understand why folks insist on saying we need to "get back to" any particular style of play. Let's see, we have the 9th most efficient offense in the country according to Kenpom. We have the 16th highest PPG in raw scoring numbers. K recruits talent. We don't always get every talented player we want. Thus, K adapts. This has been discussed ad nauseam.

    If 77.5 PPG is "grinding it out" then what in the world do we say about the B10? I personally thank god we don't have to watch games all season with scores like 52-48. But even so, those B10 schools sure seem to attract a lot of talent despite their "grind it out" style. I just don't see the relevance in saying we need to play a certain style - either to succeed on the court or succeed in recruiting.

    I mean, we've won 27 games so far this season. In the end, does it really matter how we win them? Or just that we win them, style points and everything else aside...
    We don't create steals. We don't have fast break points. We have low assist totals. We don't rebound particularly well that lead to fast break opportunities. These are the things that make basketball fun to watch. We need more 6'5"-6'8" slashers. That was a huge part of K's winning formula, espeically in early '90s. Now, our ability to knock down the 3 is impressive and there is nothing better than seeing us get hot from 3 and just blitzing someone.

    And, it does matter to recruits how we win. They want to see a style that is fun, and I argue that teams that don't look to run will be less desirable from the recruit's perspective. Now, I don't care how we win, although I would like to see us pass much better, run the floor, drain 3s and play suffocating D but you don't always have the personnel for that.

  8. #3568
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    We don't create steals. We don't have fast break points. We have low assist totals. We don't rebound particularly well that lead to fast break opportunities. These are the things that make basketball fun to watch.
    And here I thought that what made basketball fun to watch was winning. Oh well. I thought I had been having fun all these years, but I guess I was just misinformed.
    "With seven national titles and 20 Final Fours in the 64-team NCAA Tournament era, Duke and UNC have had more playoff success than any other CONFERENCE." - Al Featherston

  9. #3569
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Albemarle, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by Faison1 View Post
    Slight disagreement.....2002 was filled with Rock Stars. We just didn't complete.

    Also, was it 2004 with Duhon, Redick, Ewing, Deng, and Shelden? That was pretty cool.

    I'd say it was run from 1997 through 2004.
    And from 88 to 93

  10. #3570
    Quote Originally Posted by Jderf View Post
    And here I thought that what made basketball fun to watch was winning. Oh well. I thought I had been having fun all these years, but I guess I was just misinformed.
    I thought the Maui, Chapel Hill and N.C. State games this year were pretty fun, but I guess I've been corrected on that point. Oh well.

  11. #3571
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Bethlehem, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    Duke is not "cool" because our style of play isn't cool. We play grind it out games instead of creating steals, getting out on the break and making highlight dunks. '91-92 had Grant Hill, Tony Lang, Brian Davis and Thomas Hill with Hurley as the maestro. This is what we need to get back to. Of course, we need a Hurley-esque pg and we need guys who can defend and run the break like the above-mentioned (a very tall order indeed). However, maybe next year we can get back to that with some improvement from Quinn and Gbinije, Saluaimon, Murphey and perhaps Bazz filling the lanes...
    I personally believe that one of the things that makes Coach K such a special coach is that he doesn't have to play any type of style. He is able to modify the style of play to fit the team that he has in any given year.

  12. #3572
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    I think the bolded is the key. White fans like to root for everyday-looking white kids out of small schools to topple the big boys, because they just kind of see them as an extension of themselves. But once you cement your status as a big boy - in Duke's case, a blueblood - that sentiment turns to jealousy ("I can do the things JJ Redick does, how come he's gets to start for Duke and be considered in the same echelon as big-time athletes like Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy?")

    America likes its floppy-haired white boys as Cinderella stories, not as supposed Goliaths.

    I thought the 91/92 documentary was a great reminder. We were LOADED with 6'5-6'8 athletes who could run as fast and jump as high as anybody, we they got up and down the floor "like the Showtime Lakers". They also had that swagger and overwhelming confidence and will to win. Something tells me if that were the case in 2012, we'd be a little "cooler".
    Duke was that team back in the day-- the private school better known for academics, coach with the funny name, bunch of white guys beating down the powerhouse at UNLV. It's cool a few times. After enough of them-- to quote "The Girl Next Door"-- it's not cute anymore. It's just annoying, particularly after we beat so many of the blue-bloods in high-profile matchups-- UConn, UNLV, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Michigan. When all the big state schools got their hearts broken, they got tired of it and started inventing reasons to hate us (note the near-encylopedic memory Duke-haters have of anything that might make us look back).

    The reason we're hated is simple. We have no "natural" fan base like the schools listed above, and so they see us as a team that should be a curiosity like Butler or George Mason-- not a team that climbed all the way to superpower status.

  13. #3573
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor

    Enough!

    I am closing this totally hopeless hapless helpless thread. Will open a new one shortly that will be for 2012 recruing only or else folks will earn themselves infractions for going off topic.

    Thread Closed!

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

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