Scheyer, Z, Lance NBA prospects

[Starter]

idk...athleticism has made lebron james what he is...

That, and his enormous skill level, preternatural court sense and incredible work ethic. Athleticism, obviously, is a highly valued trait, but if it were all one needed to make someone successful, James "Flight" White would be a Hall of Famer. And if it were 100% crucial, Jeff Hornacek played 16 seasons more than he should have.

I think Scheyer almost certainly latches on somewhere. There are definitely players less deserving in the league than he is, who wouldn't try as hard and aren't as savvy on the court. Hopefully it actually is the Heat. Pat Riley once found a whole lot of value in an athletically limited but tough kid with a streaky jump shot who at one point had to resort to bagging groceries, and John Starks ended up doing pretty well for himself.

[CDu]

That, and his enormous skill level, preternatural court sense and incredible work ethic. Athleticism, obviously, is a highly valued trait, but if it were all one needed to make someone successful, James "Flight" White would be a Hall of Famer. And if it were 100% crucial, Jeff Hornacek played 16 seasons more than he should have.

I think Scheyer almost certainly latches on somewhere. There are definitely players less deserving in the league than he is, who wouldn't try as hard and aren't as savvy on the court. Hopefully it actually is the Heat. Pat Riley once found a whole lot of value in an athletically limited but tough kid with a streaky jump shot who at one point had to resort to bagging groceries, and John Starks ended up doing pretty well for himself.

Not relevant to the overall point, but I seem to remember Starks as being pretty athletic, actually. He had a pretty ridiculous dunk against the Bulls in the playoffs, and competed in slam dunk contest one time.

That said, I do hope Scheyer finds a spot in the league. And I do think it's reasonable that he could do so. I just don't see Starks as a remotely similar comp.

[rotogod00]

Not relevant to the overall point, but I seem to remember Starks as being pretty athletic, actually. He had a pretty ridiculous dunk against the Bulls in the playoffs, and competed in slam dunk contest one time.

That said, I do hope Scheyer finds a spot in the league. And I do think it's reasonable that he could do so. I just don't see Starks as a remotely similar comp.

Absolutely, CDu. Starks was actually very athletic. And here's the dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vzB8Ujf6Mo

[moonpie23]

for everyone's information....


my son, sam says that Brian is going to make the team and will be the big surprise of the summer league...


I'm not betting against him (sam) again...

[Big Pappa]

According to Adam Zagoria and Zagsblog, the Nets summer league will include both Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas. Also set to play with them are three former longhorns Damion James, AJ Abrams, and Conner Atchley along with Derrick Favors, Wayne Chism, Vernon Goodridge, Alex Ruoff and Ben Uzoh.

[SilkyJ]

According to Adam Zagoria and Zagsblog, the Nets summer league will include both Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas. Also set to play with them are three former longhorns Damion James, AJ Abrams, and Conner Atchley along with Derrick Favors, Wayne Chism, Vernon Goodridge, Alex Ruoff and Ben Uzoh.

Very cool.

Any word on exactly where Jon has landed for summer league?

[Bluedog]

Very cool.

Any word on exactly where Jon has landed for summer league?

Miami

[MCFinARL]

Miami

Is that a new development? I've seen it reported that he is playing for the Wizards this summer. For example: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16613

[Bluedog]

Is that a new development? I've seen it reported that he is playing for the Wizards this summer. For example: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=16613

Yep, fairly new development (two days ago). DBP tweet:

Coach K told campers he's been talking frequently to Jon and he's doing well & getting ready to play for Miami (not Wizards as was rumored)

http://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/17266670990

Zoubs is playing for the Nets summer league team, Jon with Miami summer team

http://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/17267022252

[Starter]

I actually have a laminated poster of The Dunk, one of my all-time favorite basketball moments and a wonderful memory from my high school years. Starks definitely had that in him, though it wasn't really his game -- which was more jacking up threes, for better or for worse. Part of why The Dunk was so special was that he really didn't do that sort of thing that often. Whatever, I was a fan unconditionally.

As some of you said, my point definitely wasn't athleticism, but more so a hope that Riley sees something in Scheyer the way he saw something in Starks, who at one point was down and out and working at a grocery store. Riley -- who I have no love lost for as a Knicks fan, believe me -- saw Starks as a son. I'm hoping he can make a connection with Jon.

[The Gordog]

idk...athleticism has made lebron james what he is...

Indeed, a guy with no championships vs 3 for Bird. But maybe that's what you meant...

[CDu]

Indeed, a guy with no championships vs 3 for Bird. But maybe that's what you meant...

In fairness to James, there's something to be said for having good players around you. Bird had some really talented players joining him for those championship teams (Parish, McHale, Johnson, etc). James? Not so much. Also, I could be mistaken, but I think James may still be younger than Bird was when the Celtics won their first title with Bird. So there's still plenty of time for James to end up with as many titles as Bird (or more).

[superdave]

In fairness to James, there's something to be said for having good players around you. Bird had some really talented players joining him for those championship teams (Parish, McHale, Johnson, etc). James? Not so much. Also, I could be mistaken, but I think James may still be younger than Bird was when the Celtics won their first title with Bird. So there's still plenty of time for James to end up with as many titles as Bird (or more).

The fact that Bird played with McHale, Parish, DJ, Walton and a few other greats points to the watering down of the league due to all the new franchises. I think the league has gone from 22 teams to 30 since the ABA merger. That's 8 news teams and 14-15 roster spots each.

[CDu]

The fact that Bird played with McHale, Parish, DJ, Walton and a few other greats points to the watering down of the league due to all the new franchises. I think the league has gone from 22 teams to 30 since the ABA merger. That's 8 news teams and 14-15 roster spots each.

Yeah, the league has definitely experienced some watering down. Some of the expansion has been offset by the influx of foreign players (guys like Parker, Ginobili, Nowitzki, Ming, and others didn't play in the NBA back then). But the talent is dilluted. That said, Bird's supporting cast relative to the league at that time was still much stronger than James's supporting cast has been relative to the league now.

[sagegrouse]

The fact that Bird played with McHale, Parish, DJ, Walton and a few other greats points to the watering down of the league due to all the new franchises. I think the league has gone from 22 teams to 30 since the ABA merger. That's 8 news teams and 14-15 roster spots each.

Dilution is a fair topic for debate.

Maybe there has been some since the Magic-Bird era, although I personally am doubtful.

I know over the last 40-50 years, there has been a huge expansion of high-level basketball talent, much more than the expansion of pro franchises. If you go back to the early to mid 60's, the beginning of the UCLA run, there were only about 30 major college programs nationally. There were 22 teams in the NCAA tournament, and I was there in Reynolds when Duke beat a totally over-matched UConn team by 50 points -- in the Eastern regional semfinals. There was only HS for teenagers -- no AAU, except for adults. And, of course, this was a totally different era from a societal standpoint, with access to basketball limited for minorities.

I would argue that the talent base since then has expanded several times over. There are more than 100 serious college programs. And, of course, the presence of so many more minority players has added to the talent base. Moreover, players from overseas play important roles in the NBA.

In 1960, to be sure, there were only eight teams in the NBA and no ABA. But by the end of the decade, there were 14 NBA teams and another 11 in the ABA. These 25 teams surely divided much less talent that today's 30 NBA teams.

sagegrouse