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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ElSid View Post
    Hmm, you may be right. That's the first time I noticed him start to look a bit shaky. I wonder if it was the pressure of the situation, or the fact that classless Muriland fans were telling him to go Eff himself all night, on national TV no less. These kids face a lot of physical and mental challenges. I'm pretty sure Scheyer's going to play a fine game on Friday, though, regardless of shooting percentage. He will help his team win.
    I'm not saying it was the Maryland game per say. I think it actually started before that. I'm not saying that Jon isn't dealing with the pressure either. I personally think Jon is just the type of guy who doesn't like the focus on him, he wants it on the team and he is uncomfortable when folks talk about him carrying the load or being the POY over his teammates.

    Actually, I think he is such a TEAM guy that any focus on him makes him feel uncomfortable. I think he felt that with the ACC POY talk he was uncomfortable because he wanted the TEAM to get the credit and then the talk about him and Grevis upset the apple cart more. Then with the loss to Maryland it was he had to prove he was good. Just one piece of pressure after another has gotten him out of sink.

    I hoping the pressure is off, Grevis is gone so no comparisons to what is happening to the other ACC POY candidate, his team is doing better. No more talk about the ACC POY so I just hope he hangs loose now.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    It is easier than finding a great Irish chef ...
    Haha, love it. I ran into former Dolphins quarterback Jay Fiedler (and notable Jewish athlete) randomly while watching Kyrie at the Primetime Shootout. He was stunned to hear that I owned his jersey!

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGirl4ever View Post
    Jon had a steal off an in-bounds play against Cal (led to a Nolan lay-up) and I was very surprised that he got off the floor so well. In that play, the back, hip, pelvis, whatever...everything looked ok.

    Anyone else know the play I'm talking about?
    That play was really terrific. Regardless of shooting percentages, whatever, we'll all remember Scheyer as a special player, and that's a perfect example of why.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    Jon's movement tells me that there is something wrong on his left side. His pelvis, when he is running, watch the left side as he lifts the left foot from the floor behind or underneath him and brings his knee up and left foot forward. Normally, in a well organized pelvis the pelvis on that side moves up towards the shoulder. Jon's does but it seems herky, jerky, contrived, effortful, in a way that bespeaks that something is stuck. I noticed several games ago in the ACC Tournament that he appeared to be dragging the left leg somewhat in running.

    This is soon to be my business. Well, not my business, but I will be a certified Feldenkrais practitioner which, among many other skills, requires a finely honed ability to observe and discern differences from the norm, differences between two sides, differences that bespeak something's being out of whack. Jon is out of whack. Does that mean he is "injured." Not if you went to a physician; absolutely not!

    Jon can "make" the left side of his pelvis move as it normally does (I cannot say what his normal way of moving it is because I never looked that carefully) but I can tell you that what I'm seeing is out of the norm for Jon.

    So, he has to concentrate more on that pelvis, hip, leg in doing everything much more than usual and the results will be much spottier, less predictable. What generates power in the body, boys and girls, what is the power center. That's right, the pelvic area.

    That's the list.

    If anyone knows K or anyone else associated with that team, they really should contact a high-end feldenkrais practitioner and get him to whereever the sweet 16 is, and then the final 4. What we call a functional integration lesson will do tons to improve Jon and leave him with much more freedom, improve his functioning smoothly perhaps beyond what it was before the episode that caused the problem to flare (I'm guessing the put down in GT II).

    I know just the guy, but he doesn't work cheap. Far from it. Think lawyer prices just about. No, not NYC lawyer prices, but not Podunk either. What's the best shot at a championship worth. Tell them to get in touch. I'm happy to hook em up, if not with my guy, who is the absolute best, then someone up there.

    Jon's shot is off because the left side of his pelvis is not functioning normally for him. That's the list.

    Precisely what's causing it? Not a simple answer and probably not just one thing. That's why they pay my guy the big bucks--because he is a genuis at figuring these things out and developing a strategy for helping a person disintangle. Yeap, I'm reasonably certain.
    That explains your freaky fascination with feet on the thread about UNC ankle injuries!

    Seriously I think my pelvis got a little unorganized back in the early 80's, but now that Disco is dead, it is better now.

  4. #44
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.

    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    That explains your freaky fascination with feet on the thread about UNC ankle injuries!

    Seriously I think my pelvis got a little unorganized back in the early 80's, but now that Disco is dead, it is better now.
    Wouldn't that be "disorganized"?

    DukeGirl4ever, that was a great play, especially with Jon having the presence of mind to hit Nolan streaking up the court. His defense looks fine. It's just his offense that isn't so good, especially his shooting. So maybe it's something like that Greybeard said, [to summarize] some sort of hitch in Jon's movements. I can't believe it's anything serious, from a health point of view.

    As I recall, Jon had a pretty big slump last year, and snapped out of it wonderfully. And I know that two months ago we were all wondering where Kyle's jumper had gone.

    Maybe Jon turns it around this week.

  5. #45
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    Aug 2009
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    Dallas
    Jon's always had a hitch in his shot. His 4 free throws yesterday all had that hitch to them and they went in. His 3 pointer that went in had the hitch too. It's his shot. I think he just needs to stop thinking about it and just come off the curls and the screens like he always has and fire it up. Easier said than done. All shooters go through slumps and they shoot to get out of them. One of the great things about Jon is he is still successfully running an offense without looking to shoot too much at the sacrifice of the game. Nolan has helped tremendously with this.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern VA

    Question Who knows

    Then again, we could all be reading into something that really isn't there. Just possibly he's got something minor going on or otherwise into his head, and is about to go 10-for-10 from three. Who knows. We have plenty of scoring threats, regardless, but I just hope we don't see Purdue playing off to help elsewhere if he continues missing.

    But I do believe he'll be fine. And a few days off cannot be hurting that process...

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    If I'm scoring correctly at home, the following things are wrong with Jon's shot:
    -He has a bad back.
    -He has lost his confidence.
    -He's thinking too much.
    -He has developed a hitch in his shot.
    -He has a disorganized pelvis.
    -He was worried about Greivis Vasquez.
    -He's so unselfish that the invdividual attention got to him.
    -He has played too may minutes and is tired.
    -He's taking too long to release his shot.
    -He should drive more.
    -He should drive less.
    -He's putting too much pressure on himself.
    -He should drink wine before games.
    -He can't breathe through his eyes.
    -He's generally just a streak shooter.
    -Nothing is wrong and he should practice more.

    Well, other than that, seems like Jon is fine.

    Clearly, he's in a slump. My best, somewhat educated guess, is that it's a combination of factors. If we start with what we know, we have K talking a couple of times in early/mid February about a bad back. I don't know how bad it is, but backs scare me. And Duke certainly has a history of guys playing through injuries, or have we all forgotten the number of guys who've had postseason surgery for issues we didn't even know existed over the past few years?

    Now, let's say something was or still is physically wrong. That could have done two things. First, it could have altered his mechanics. I do think some slight aspects of Scheyer's shot look different from earlier in the season. He's also not nearly as agile in attacking the basket. You know all those contorted layup we got used to for three-plus years? How many has he hit during this shooting slump? Seems to me that would indicate a physical issue.

    The other problem is that if a physical issue caused a decline in performance that, in turn, could have affected him mentally. He could have lost confidence in his shot during that time. He could have lost his mechanics. He could still be thinking about whatever is physically wrong, even if it's not causing him pain. When things go wrong, they tend to build on each other.

    Also, even when he was shooting great earlier in the season, a bunch of us commented on the fact that he was not getting the calls he used to get -- both while going to the basket or when he was getting hit on jump shots. I'd have to think that, at some point, that would get to him, and he wouldn't attack the basket in the same way.

    Add in the fact that he admits he is putting pressure on himself because he wants to win a title so badly, and it's certainly a tangled situation. I wish there were an easy way to clear his head and get his mechanics in gear. If he's not healthy, he'll have to play through that, but maybe K can help with the other stuff.

    Finally, Duvall is right. He has always been more of a streak shooter than a pure shooter throughout his career at Duke. His form can get so much better, which is why I think he'll be a much better shooter at the next level. In the meantime, he needs to go with what he's got, built up his confidence, and play through any pain he's experiencing. The important thing to remember is that he is a great player -- Duke's best player. He's one of the most instinctive basketball players I've ever watched; he needs to trust those instincts on his shot the same way he makes amazing plays on D simply by reacting, rather than overthinking the game.

    (And, it wouldn't hurt if we all did whatever we could to build up some good mojo for him. I mean, there's nothing to lose, right?)

  8. #48
    Could it be a delayed Saluki Hangover from the game with SIU last year?

  9. #49
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeHopkins View Post
    His lift-off and shooting routine may be altered by some physical injury, yes. But we have no evidence of this. None. I don't think the coaches or Jon would purposely shy away from revealing any sort of nagging injury. To me it's more likely a brain problem, ie, it's in his head. And yes, your head can alter your shot, ask any basketball player this. Anyone who is in a slump can "feel" that their shot is different, that their rhythm is out of sync. He may have some physical injury, but I doubt a 4 day intervention from some specialist would really make a difference at this point. At this point, its all about the numbers. He needs to hit the gym and keep tossing them up to regain his confidence and his routine. Thats the best option here, IMHO.
    It ain't an "injury."

  10. #50
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    Nov 2007
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    Delaware
    I'm not going to speculate about what is wrong with Jon, but it could be anything. The bad news is that it has been getting gradually worse for weeks now, and it would be pretty special for him to turn it around suddenly now. I can't think of any precedent for it off the top of my head where someone has under-performed to this extent and then turned it around in the middle of the tourney.

    All we can do is hope. Luckily we have two guys who are playing lights out, and we're crashing the boards and defending like maniacs. Even without Jon's best, we still have a good shot at Indy. If Duke is to do any damage in Indy, though, I suspect that we will need the old Jon back.

  11. #51
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    Jan 2008
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    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    -He has a disorganized pelvis.
    I don't see how any other explanation makes sense at all.








    Also, that's what she said.

  12. #52
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Talking Jon's Still in Charge of the Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Coach K has shifted a lot of that burden off of Scheyer in the last couple of weeks. In the ACC tournament and the first weekend of the NCAA tournament, Scheyer spent a lot more time off the ball, with Smith taking more of the primary ballhandling duties.
    Not so much that Nolan actually becomes the point guard. John is clearly the guy aware of where everyone is on offense and, more than anyone, is directing the offense. Nolan is making better decisions but I wouldn't accuse him of "total court awareness" -- maybe next year. Now, Lance and Zoubs are showing some improved court awareness.

    What teams did during the ACC was to press Duke in the backcourt. This led to Nolan's, who is less susceptible to double-teams and traps, bringing the ball up. Scheyer ended up less involved in the offense, in part because there were fewer seconds left on the clock.

    sagegrouse

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    If I'm scoring correctly at home, the following things are wrong with Jon's shot:
    -He has a bad back.
    -He has lost his confidence.
    -He's thinking too much.
    -He has developed a hitch in his shot.
    -He has a disorganized pelvis.
    -He was worried about Greivis Vasquez.
    -He's so unselfish that the invdividual attention got to him.
    -He has played too may minutes and is tired.
    -He's taking too long to release his shot.
    -He should drive more.
    -He should drive less.
    -He's putting too much pressure on himself.
    -He should drink wine before games.
    -He can't breathe through his eyes.
    -He's generally just a streak shooter.
    -Nothing is wrong and he should practice more.

    Well, other than that, seems like Jon is fine.
    This is it

    Quote Originally Posted by SCMatt33 View Post
    All we can do is hope. Luckily we have two guys who are playing lights out, and we're crashing the boards and defending like maniacs. Even without Jon's best, we still have a good shot at Indy. If Duke is to do any damage in Indy, though, I suspect that we will need the old Jon back.
    yup... with the emergence of Zoobs, LT, and the Plumblee's... maybe Jon should really be emphasizing the team first... take the clear, open shot when there, and just not worry about it. With Jon's reduction in points, and the increase in points by the bigs... it may offset, and Duke still has a good chance in every game... especially since Jon has consistently played at a high level in every other aspect of the game.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
    It ain't an "injury."
    You don't know that for a fact. You have a theory. I think we would all appreciate it if you would preface your remarks with comments like "in my opinion," since you have spent exactly no time with Jon or the team this year, and certainly don't know anything for a fact. Your take is interesting, but also could be wrong. Please acknowedge that and don't dismiss other possibilities, especially when K has explicitly mentioned one of them.

  15. #55
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by gep View Post
    yup... with the emergence of Zoobs, LT, and the Plumblee's... maybe Jon should really be emphasizing the team first... take the clear, open shot when there, and just not worry about it. With Jon's reduction in points, and the increase in points by the bigs... it may offset, and Duke still has a good chance in every game... especially since Jon has consistently played at a high level in every other aspect of the game.
    Of course, the vast majority of shots he is missing are wide open. These are easy shots for Jon. They're just not going in. But he has to keep shooting.

  16. #56
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    Feb 2007
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    Washington, D.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    That explains your freaky fascination with feet on the thread about UNC ankle injuries!

    Seriously I think my pelvis got a little unorganized back in the early 80's, but now that Disco is dead, it is better now.
    Does a pitcher pitch with his arm alone? Nope. Why does one guy throw at 90 and another 75 mph? How one is organized to perform the task at hand is everything. Performance is comprised of lots of little machines firing in sequence. The less we get in our own way, what we in my profession call parasitic effort, that is, effort that blocks what we need to do to perform a task with the least effort and most efficacy, the better we will perform.

    The center around which we organize is the pelvis. Ask any martial artist, tennis player, golfer, pitcher, ditch digger, sledge hammer wielder, runner, who actually has some understanding of how he does what he does. Most people, even great athletes, do not know how they do what they do well; they just do it. That is even more true today than ever since not only do we have specialists telling them what technique to use but we also have trainers telling them how to use their bodies. Self awareness is left on the scrap heap of youth.

    If you don't know it, you have a dominant leg. The pelvis on that side, the side of the dominant leg will move less well than the pelvis on the other side. Leads to all kinds of shoulder, elbow, knee, hip and ankle problems, oh, don't let me leave out neck problems on the other side when we work hard over time at physical activity. You bruise the muscles in your butt on one side, strain the muscles between your ribs and along your spine, the muscles adjacent to and below your shoulder blade, forget about normal movement in your pelvis, which as I've said is already in all of us somewhat askew. Now, should your spin get locked in say t7 on down in a rotated position, wow, you don't want to know.

    Jon's pelvis, which is integral to ambulation, that would include running, jumping, pushing into a shot, is thrown out of whack; so are those functions. This will not be diagnosed as an "injury."

    Most of you mokes cannot shot a basketball worth your life because you do not know how you are currently shooting it so how the hell can you change to something better. Others have shoulder blades that don't move properly and prevent you from coming close to creating an "L" with your shooting arm and you are not smart enough in organizing the rest of you to compensate for that problem.

    Jon, if I had to guess, shoots with a side spin because he has played for years with an imbalance in his back, something that inhibits the optimal movement of his shoulder blade. He was smart enough to figure that out before any trainers and teachers got a hold of him and smarter enough still to not let them try to force him to do something he could not, that is shoot conventionally given his current organization.

    The problem he has now is something else is out of whack. So the transfer of energy that he creates with his pelvis that pushes into the ground doesn't work so well; nor does the transfer of energy back up in order to run, jump and shoot. In order to overcome these shall we shall gummed up movements he has to put more effort into that side. That movement is not habitual and because he is overcoming something that is stuff somewhat, depending on the vector of the force he creates (unlike his normal shot, these movements are not groved), the resistence varies as does the shot.

    Most skelletons are the same. Muscles and how we use them to create machines of the skeletons to produce work vary. Jon needs a tune up.

    Orthopods and PTs do not know from this. Moshe Feldenkrais was a genuis: he spoke five languages, developed a system of self defense, disarming attackers, that was used by the Hagana in Palestine in the 1920s, wrote a handbook on that method that is used by the Israeli military to this day, was a world class physicist, engineer, and judo expert, and spent 40 years devoted to figuring out how people learn movement and how to help people learn to improve on what they do. In the course of it, he came upon some amazingly effective discoveries about how to help people become unstuck and learn to function more effortlessly.

    Try this: sit on a bench or a chair (but stay free from the back). Turn your head to the left very slowly and stop as soon as you feel resistence in either side of your neck. Return to the center. Take a breath. And repeat 4 or 5 times. You must go slowly and notice when there is the slightest strain and stop. Notice how far you turn by looking for an identifying spot on the wall.

    Now, put your hands on either side of your face with your fingers pointed up and the base of your hands right above your jaw line. Let your elbows hang alongside your torso and connect with your torso. Again look to your left and keep your elbows connected with your torso but not tight, no tense in your shoulders or back. Repeat several times and notice how far you turn now. Much farther right? How come?

    Now, let your hands return to your lap or your thighs, and turn your head to your left, doing nothing special and again going slowly and stopping when their is strain. Freakin magic right? Organization, dude, organization.

  17. #57
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    Feb 2007
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    The Birmingham of the North
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    You don't know that for a fact. You have a theory. I think we would all appreciate it if you would preface your remarks with comments like "in my opinion," since you have spent exactly no time with Jon or the team this year, and certainly don't know anything for a fact. Your take is interesting, but also could be wrong. Please acknowedge that and don't dismiss other possibilities, especially when K has explicitly mentioned one of them.
    I can't speak for what anyone else would appreciate, but I didn't read GB as being dismissive of other possibilities. On the contrary, I thought Hopkins was the guilty party in that respect. GB's "it ain't an injury" post seemed to me less a declarative diagnosis than an attempt to clear up Hopkins's mischaracterization of his position.

    I think that any fair reading of GB's contributions to this thread would show that he is proffering an explanation based only on his observations from television, and maybe live at some games. I don't see why he need disclaim that his are "just opinons", or that he hasn't put Jon through an examination or one-on-one workout in forming his opinions.

  18. #58
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    Baltimore
    Quote Originally Posted by calltheobvious View Post
    I can't speak for what anyone else would appreciate, but I didn't read GB as being dismissive of other possibilities. On the contrary, I thought Hopkins was the guilty party in that respect. GB's "it ain't an injury" post seemed to me less a declarative diagnosis than an attempt to clear up Hopkins's mischaracterization of his position.

    I think that any fair reading of GB's contributions to this thread would show that he is proffering an explanation based only on his observations from television, and maybe live at some games. I don't see why he need disclaim that his are "just opinons", or that he hasn't put Jon through an examination or one-on-one workout in forming his opinions.
    GB wrote "Does that mean he is "injured." Not if you went to a physician; absolutely not!"

    I interpreted this as Jon has an injury that isn't clearly discernible by a physician, but an injury nonetheless. Sue me. I was just stating my own opinion. Obviously GB has his own opinion and thats fine with me.

    Now his reply to my previous post with "He ain't injured" does appear to be a clarification of his point, but you cannot deny that it still perpetuates the idea that Jon is indeed not injured. A statement like this carries a responsibility. We do not know anything for certain at this point, thats the whole point of the thread. I think Jumbo is right in saying that there is no clear evidence for that position or any position, and that opinions are simply that, opinions.
    Last edited by DevilHorns; 03-23-2010 at 03:03 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Wouldn't that be "disorganized"?

    DukeGirl4ever, that was a great play, especially with Jon having the presence of mind to hit Nolan streaking up the court. His defense looks fine. It's just his offense that isn't so good, especially his shooting. So maybe it's something like that Greybeard said, [to summarize] some sort of hitch in Jon's movements. I can't believe it's anything serious, from a health point of view.

    As I recall, Jon had a pretty big slump last year, and snapped out of it wonderfully. And I know that two months ago we were all wondering where Kyle's jumper had gone.

    Maybe Jon turns it around this week.
    Yea, I thought about that after I posted but since it was meant to be silly I didn’t feel it was worth the trouble to change.

    I do not discount GB's analysis of JS. He may have alignment/organizational issues, but I would think that he has been this way for years and has adapted his movements to accommodate the imbalances. Wouldn't a sudden "organization" of Jon’s pelvis be more problematic in the short run (NCCAT) than helpful?

    Right now if I had to guess, and I do since I don't know Jon or have any inside info, I would say his troubles are 80/20, mental to physical at this point (evidenced by his throwing ally's to Zoub ) BUT!!! I have complete confidence in Jon getting his shot back for the next round. And the really nice thing is that we can still win even if he doesn't.

  20. #60
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    This thread is going to be really funny to look back on when Jon goes 4-5 from downtown on Friday.

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