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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC

    Is Evan Turner the runaway NPOY candidate?

    Before this week I considered him slightly ahead of the pack. But in light of his late game heroics the past two games in the Big Ten Tournament (draining a 37-foot buzzer-beater and then 12 points in double-OT), I'm starting to get the feeling that he has built a sizeable gap. I'm thinking that no one in the country is more important to any top-10 team. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    He was already way ahead of the pack prior to this week. It was a done deal. He's carried that team for the last month or so, and is putting up silly numbers.

    This week was just the icing on the cake.

  3. #3
    I found it funny when Dicky V said today that Wall was his NPOY. Really? I'm not sure how you could look at their #s and conclude that Wall is having a better season. They are basically the same... except Turner gets 2.5 more points per game, 5 more rebounds and shoots a higher percentage. Admittedly I haven't seen him play that much (most of it this weekend) but his numbers alone are ridiculous.

    I did find it kind of funny that he had a triple double today... 10 turnovers, ouch. He still won the game for Ohio State though so I guess you can't really fault him for it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by InSpades View Post
    I found it funny when Dicky V said today that Wall was his NPOY. Really? I'm not sure how you could look at their #s and conclude that Wall is having a better season. They are basically the same... except Turner gets 2.5 more points per game, 5 more rebounds and shoots a higher percentage. Admittedly I haven't seen him play that much (most of it this weekend) but his numbers alone are ridiculous.
    .
    Why is what Dicky V said so funny? Wall is putting up his numbers and he's only a Freshman. There are two other starters on that team who are also Freshman, so it's a very young team and yet for most of the season they've been a top 5 club.

    Considering the discussion that's taken place on this board about the ACC POY, I'm not sure pointing to numbers is a good idea. A number of board members dismissed the numerical advantage General Grevious enjoyed over Jon, albeit a slight one, to state the Jon should have won the award. They also dismissed the fact that for the most part Grevious did it alone, while Jon has it easier playing with Kyle and Nolan.

    Would the fact the Wall decided to go to UK clouding your judgement?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Is Evan Turner the runaway NPOY candidate?

    If he plays teams coached by John Beilein from here on in, he is a shoo in.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sullivans Island, SC
    Interestingly, I think Turner could be awarded the NPOY [I]and[I] MVP award (should it exist) this year, although I think the difference between the two is often disregarded...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sullivans Island, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post

    Considering the discussion that's taken place on this board about the ACC POY, I'm not sure pointing to numbers is a good idea. A number of board members dismissed the numerical advantage General Grevious enjoyed over Jon, albeit a slight one, to state the Jon should have won the award.
    Jon enjoyed a MUCH better assist to turnover ratio which should be strongly considered when both players are playing the Point. He also has the advantage in a lot of statistically smaller categories, but categories nonetheless...free throw percentage, etc. I agree General Grevious' numbers were higher in the main ones, but there is a legitimate argument for Jon.

  8. #8
    Kyle is about to make a serious run for the honor.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Why is what Dicky V said so funny? Wall is putting up his numbers and he's only a Freshman. There are two other starters on that team who are also Freshman, so it's a very young team and yet for most of the season they've been a top 5 club.

    Considering the discussion that's taken place on this board about the ACC POY, I'm not sure pointing to numbers is a good idea. A number of board members dismissed the numerical advantage General Grevious enjoyed over Jon, albeit a slight one, to state the Jon should have won the award. They also dismissed the fact that for the most part Grevious did it alone, while Jon has it easier playing with Kyle and Nolan.

    Would the fact the Wall decided to go to UK clouding your judgement?

    Whoa there. Look, props to John Wall and his season, but you can not honestly side with Dickie V on this. Evan Turner does it all for Ohio St and you saw who they were for the 6 (?) games he was out with his back injury and who they are when he is in. Big difference. The guy is a triple double threat every time he walks out onto the floor and plays defense too. He blocks shots, steals the ball, always guards the opposing team's best player and has a better FG%. He turns the ball over a bit much (had 10 today!) but what he provides for his team is astounding. Ohio St is not even a top 25 team with him out. Kentucky is still probably top 15 without John Wall IMO. No question that Turner is the NPOY and you can not question that unless you are a Kentucky fan yourself.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by weezie View Post
    Kyle is about to make a serious run for the honor.

    He's playing great, but he's probably a bit late to get into the discussion.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    Jon enjoyed a MUCH better assist to turnover ratio which should be strongly considered when both players are playing the Point. He also has the advantage in a lot of statistically smaller categories, but categories nonetheless...free throw percentage, etc. I agree General Grevious' numbers were higher in the main ones, but there is a legitimate argument for Jon.
    I'm not denying that Jon could have been the ACC POY. It's very subjective how each voter looks at the various players and what they've accomplished during a season. You're putting a premium on ATR, maybe someone else doesn't. I'm sure some voters gave the General the nod based on what he accomplished playing for an inferior or what was viewed as an inferior team.

    My point is that I don't believe we should be so quick to dismiss someone else's view on the NPOY as it is purely subjective.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Why is what Dicky V said so funny? Wall is putting up his numbers and he's only a Freshman. There are two other starters on that team who are also Freshman, so it's a very young team and yet for most of the season they've been a top 5 club.

    Considering the discussion that's taken place on this board about the ACC POY, I'm not sure pointing to numbers is a good idea. A number of board members dismissed the numerical advantage General Grevious enjoyed over Jon, albeit a slight one, to state the Jon should have won the award. They also dismissed the fact that for the most part Grevious did it alone, while Jon has it easier playing with Kyle and Nolan.

    Would the fact the Wall decided to go to UK clouding your judgement?
    It's funny because I don't think it's really all that close (the best case you can make for Wall over Evans is that Evans missed time). The fact that John Wall is a freshman is entirely irrelevant. It's NPOY, not most future potential. What Kentucky has done is amazing but they have a *ton* of talent. Demarcus Cousins is maybe the most talented big man in the country. Patrick Patterson is an all-conference player. Ohio State is clearly less talented overall but yet Ohio St. is a top 10 team.

    The Vasquez vs. Scheyer debate was a lot closer. If you look at things like offensive efficiency then Scheyer is significantly ahead of Vasquez (for the year). Vasquez had a slight advantage if you just looked at more basic numbers (points, assists, etc.). In the end Vasquez won the award easily because of his better play in down the stretch and in conference play.

    I think a lot of people look at John Wall and see how ridiculously talented he is (Dick Vitale included). The numbers don't lie though. Turner puts up 20/10/6 per game. No one in the country is anywhere close to that.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Quote Originally Posted by InSpades View Post
    It's funny because I don't think it's really all that close (the best case you can make for Wall over Evans is that Evans missed time). The fact that John Wall is a freshman is entirely irrelevant. It's NPOY, not most future potential. What Kentucky has done is amazing but they have a *ton* of talent. Demarcus Cousins is maybe the most talented big man in the country. Patrick Patterson is an all-conference player. Ohio State is clearly less talented overall but yet Ohio St. is a top 10 team.

    The Vasquez vs. Scheyer debate was a lot closer. If you look at things like offensive efficiency then Scheyer is significantly ahead of Vasquez (for the year). Vasquez had a slight advantage if you just looked at more basic numbers (points, assists, etc.). In the end Vasquez won the award easily because of his better play in down the stretch and in conference play.

    I think a lot of people look at John Wall and see how ridiculously talented he is (Dick Vitale included). The numbers don't lie though. Turner puts up 20/10/6 per game. No one in the country is anywhere close to that.

    I was thinking the same thing and I think a lot of people mistakenly get wrapped up in that. Wall should win freshman of the year hands down, but like you said, this contest is not based on potential and maybe what you could've done had you been 2 years older. This is about now and what you did on the court for your team and Turner has him on that.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by InSpades View Post
    It's funny because I don't think it's really all that close (the best case you can make for Wall over Evans is that Evans missed time). The fact that John Wall is a freshman is entirely irrelevant. It's NPOY, not most future potential. What Kentucky has done is amazing but they have a *ton* of talent. Demarcus Cousins is maybe the most talented big man in the country. Patrick Patterson is an all-conference player. Ohio State is clearly less talented overall but yet Ohio St. is a top 10 team.
    Why is the fact that Wall is a freshman irrelevant, yet who he has for teamates isn't?

    This is basically the problem with this issue. It's very subjective and everyone has a different opinion on what is or isn't relevant and also what each voter places a premium on.

  15. #15
    Turner already ran away with the NPOY, Espn is already calling him the npoy and everyone seems to have that feeling. After the game winning shot, it's a wrap.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Why is the fact that Wall is a freshman irrelevant, yet who he has for teamates isn't?
    This is basically the problem with this issue. It's very subjective and everyone has a different opinion on what is or isn't relevant and also what each voter places a premium on.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Because age doesn't matter in rating a player's performance relative to other players. The quality of the players around him does matter, as it affects the level of play required/capable by that player.

    This is basically the problem with this issue. It's very subjective and everyone has a different opinion on what is or isn't relevant and also what each voter places a premium on.
    Yes, the award is subjective. But I'm quite sure that nobody votes for a player because he's a freshman. They are going to compare players as players, and they aren't going to penalize other players simply for having been in college longer.

    Is what Wall doing as a freshman impressive? Sure. And that's why he'll run away with the FoY award. But NPoY is the best player irrespective of class. And when you talk about NBA potential, Wall will be ahead of the rest (and will be the #1 pick).

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    ... when you talk about NBA potential, Wall will be ahead of the rest (and will be the #1 pick).
    Unless the Blazers get the #1 pick. They would take Cousins, who would fall off the stage on the way up to shake Sterns' hand and break more bones in his legs than were known to exist. (see: Bowie, Sam and Oden, Greg)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ncexnyc View Post
    Why is the fact that Wall is a freshman irrelevant, yet who he has for teamates isn't?

    This is basically the problem with this issue. It's very subjective and everyone has a different opinion on what is or isn't relevant and also what each voter places a premium on.
    His teammates aren't really relevant. I just brought them up to point out that Kentucky is the #2 team in the country due to a lot of different reasons. A big one is John Wall, but it's not like he's doing it by himself. If you don't see why him being a freshman is irrelevant then I can't really help you.

    The reason I (and apparently many others) think Turner is running away with the award is that he seems to do everything John Wall does, and then a bit more. You can argue Vasquez vs. Scheyer because they do different things better. It's a lot tougher to argue Wall over Turner because it's tough to come up with things that Wall does better than Turner. If you have a list of them then I'd be happy to reconsider.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Durham, NC
    You could even make the case that Cousins, who is averaging a double-double and just 1.5 ppg less than Wall, is more important to the team than Wall. (I'm not saying I would, but the argument is there.) If he is not certainly the greatest player on his team, it's hard to make the case that he is the greatest in the country. Turner does more with less.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Most people don't think about it this way, but a one-and-done freshman player (as John Wall appears to be) is experiencing both his first AND LAST season. For the purposes of evaluating a NPOY award, he's essentially a senior. Underclassmen are often dismissed for these awards because of the perception that they'll have other chances; that doesn't apply here.

    That said, I'm still siding with Evan Turner. It's a testament to John Wall that I don't think of the NPOY race as a runaway.

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