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  1. #41
    Memphis and Elliot Williams did not do themselves a favor with a lose vs. Houston today in the C-USA quarterfinals. Lunardi had them firmly on the bubble and that can't really help. Probably bubble'ing out with that loss.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by juise View Post
    Lunardi had Memphis as one of the last 4 in going into today. Houston's one-point victory over Memphis could change that.
    yup, they're likely out, just like gtech would probably be out if they lose to unc. for the bubble teams that are currently projected to be in the tourney, the biggest thing that can knock them out is a "bad" loss

  3. #43
    Marquette and Nova are playing right now and I have not seen Taylor King. Close game and Marquette has a four point lead with 4 minutes left. It should come down to the buzzer.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Down goes Nova, 80 - 76, to Marquette.

    -jk

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Down goes Nova, 80 - 76, to Marquette.

    -jk
    Making it the 15th game Marquette has played this year within 5 points or fewer. The 3 games between Marquette and Villanova were decided by a grand total of 7 points, with Marquette ending up one point ahead.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  6. #46

    Marquette v. Villanova

    Marquette just beat 'Nova. It would appear that WVU is now the favorite to win the Big East. If they do win it does anyone think their seeding will be affected by not having played Syracuse or Villanova?

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    You're missing the point. The conference tournament is intended to crown the conference champion and thus the representative of the conference in the NCAA tournament.

    Why is it fair to the teams that earned it over the course of the season to basically wipe the slate clean and make them go undefeated in a single-elimination tournament?

    The bolded part is the key, in my opinion. It's not a matter of whether or not they can handle it. They handled it by proving to be the best team over the course of the regular season. And now you're going to make that essentially meaningless by deciding things with a single-elimination tournament? That's silly.

    I'm actually against the concept of a conference tournament. I'd rather see a true round-robin regular season, with the winner getting the conference champion automatic bid. Obviously in super-conferences that won't work because it would be too many games. But in your typical 8-10 team league, it would work just fine.

    Single-elimination tournaments are not fair. Round-robin is fair. So if you're going to argue for fairness, that's the route you should go, rather than suggesting that we make the regular season basically meaningless.
    WADR, I don't think I'm missing your point. I just disagree with it. Is the conference tournament intended to crown the conference champion, or to attempt to pre-ordain that crowning? My contention is that by going out of its way to provide a large amount of extra rest for the top 4 teams relative to the bottom 4, they are making an already likely result (one of the top 4 teams winning the thing) almost inevitable. (I know, I know! -- Nova and Cuse are killing my argument today!)

    As far as "wiping the slate clean" goes, well, to a degree, that's what you're doing when you decide to have one of these tournaments. The top teams get a significant advantage by receiving top seeds and therefore an easier path to advancing. But I think that the idea of the tournament shouldn't be for the league to try to replicate the results of the regular season. It's up to the teams themselves to do that, if they are able. If they're not able, well, that's on them.

    Where it seems that we most agree is that having the tournament at all reduces the importance of the regular season. But that's a choice each conference makes. Once that choice is made, I think they should not go overboard to try to stack the deck, and instead put the teams on as equal a footing as they can, and may the best team, over those 4 (or whatever number) days, win. That seems fair to me.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    WADR, I don't think I'm missing your point. I just disagree with it. Is the conference tournament intended to crown the conference champion, or to attempt to pre-ordain that crowning? My contention is that by going out of its way to provide a large amount of extra rest for the top 4 teams relative to the bottom 4, they are making an already likely result (one of the top 4 teams winning the thing) almost inevitable. (I know, I know! -- Nova and Cuse are killing my argument today!)
    And my point is that I think the tourney should more closely reflect the results of the regular season. The teams that did well in the regular season deserved a big advantage. You played the regular season to see who was the best. Why create a single-elimination tournament to try to come up with a different result? Why not give the teams that earned it over the season as good a chance as possible to repeat, while giving a very small (but still tangible) chance to those teams that proved over the course of the year that they had no business being there?

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    As far as "wiping the slate clean" goes, well, to a degree, that's what you're doing when you decide to have one of these tournaments.
    That's how it has mostly turned out, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can make the tournament more suited to place value on the regular season. Which is, to a large degree, what the Big East tourney approach does.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    The top teams get a significant advantage by receiving top seeds and therefore an easier path to advancing.
    I think you overvalue how much easier the path is for a top seed compared to lower seeds. For example, if all other seeds hold, a #1 seed would have to beat a #8, #4, and #2 seed. A #8 seed would have to beat a #1, #4, and #2 seed. That's a very small difference in degree of difficulty despite comparing two very different seed levels. I could illustrate it with probabilities, but hopefully you can see it visually there. You're basically saying that a season's worth of proving that you are the best team is only worth an advantage in a single game (of three) in the tournament over a team that proved it was middle/bottom of the road in the conference.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    But I think that the idea of the tournament shouldn't be for the league to try to replicate the results of the regular season. It's up to the teams themselves to do that, if they are able. If they're not able, well, that's on them.
    It's MUCH harder to replicate the results of the regular season in a 3-game, single-elimination format. The probability of losing a single game in three games is fairly high, even for the favorite.

    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Where it seems that we most agree is that having the tournament at all reduces the importance of the regular season. But that's a choice each conference makes. Once that choice is made, I think they should not go overboard to try to stack the deck, and instead put the teams on as equal a footing as they can, and may the best team, over those 4 (or whatever number) days, win. That seems fair to me.
    And I disagree. You're suggesting we just give up on the idea of giving much value to the regular season. I think that they should make every effort NOT to devalue the regular season. There's no reason that the tournament has to wipe the slate clean. It's just the little league mentality of "give everybody an equal shot in the tourney" coming into play.

    I think that results over the course of a 16-18 game stretch should be valued more than results over a 1-3 game stretch. THAT seems fair to me.
    Last edited by CDu; 03-11-2010 at 06:16 PM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    And Pitt is trailing at the half to Notre Dame. Impressive showing so far by the top 4 seeds in the BET.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    In contrast, Kansas State certainly decided to show up at the Big XII tourney. They're up 51-26 on OK State (a certain tournament team, IMO) at the half. Ouch.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sterling, VA
    They should make the event 2 weeks long. On day one, 15/16 play. The next day the winner plays 14. The day after the winner plays 13, etc. So the number if games you have to play to win the tournament is the same as your seed #. Simple enough?

    I kid of course. I'm actually on CDu's side here. Yes, the higher seeds are given an advantage, but they certainly aren't handed the championship! It's still one and done for them. It's nice to see the regular season valued - in other sports, if you bomb your regular season, your last game is your last game. At least in the conference tournaments all the teams get a shot. If you have to work harder at it because your regular season sucked? Too bad, so sad.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Cincinnati's showing some signs of life. Let's go, Bearcats!

  13. #53
    cincy-wv tied with 30 secs left

  14. #54
    bearcat ball to win the game

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Still tied. 6.4 left. Cincy ball. C'mon bearcats!
    Pratt '09
    GO DUKE!

  16. #56
    yikes. almost a 5-sec violation. no TOs left

  17. #57
    Go Cinci!

  18. #58
    crap....bearcat turnover. wv ball with 3 secs left

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Philly
    they just lost it out of bounds. WVA has 3 seconds
    Pratt '09
    GO DUKE!

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    How could you lose the ball like that in THAT situation? Aaaaaaaaahhhh!

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