Shabazz Muhammad to UCLA

[J4Kop99]

Does anyone else get the feeling that these top recruits list Duke as a school they're interested in just because it sounds good and makes them look more legit, even though they don't really plan on coming here? It's kind of like having the complete works of Williams Shakespeare on your bookshelf. You've never actually read them, nor do you plan to, but you like the reaction you get when people come to your house and see it.

Also, what a crazy coincidence that UCLA's two other recruits just happen to also be in the ESPN studio...

So do you think some coaches only start to look at guys once they see that "Duke" is on the list? I don't understand the "makes them look more legit" idea?

Ultimately, they have to get out there and play. If they're not good, they can use the Duke name all they want... they still won't get recruited by any other schools. If they are good (shabazz-like good) then everyone will be after them.

Also, whereas the person in your Shakespeare example is trying to impress someone... these big-time recruits are doing the exact opposite. They are trying to be impressed. Trying to be won over.

[MCFinARL]

Well, his nickname is "Slo-Mo." He's more of a point forward.

Yes, given Anderson's apparent inclinations to the point, despite his forward size, it will be interesting to see how things work out with him and the legend in his own mind, Larry Drew II.

[Class of '94]

HOLLAND Tunnel
Ben HOWLAND

Could be the case though.

Thanks for the correction....My mind was stuck on Holland. Well, it looks like that UCLA poster from a few months ago may end up being correct about UCLA getting a super class of Bazz, Parker and Slo-Mo Kyle A.

I have to tip my hat off to Howland for bringing in what appears to be a great class. Now let's see what he can do with it.

[licc85]

If Alex Murphy hadn't reclassified to 2011, he'd probably be a top 15 player in this class, and people wouldn't be talking about how we aren't getting elite wing players ... That said, it's starting to look like Duke and Coach K are no longer able to have the pick of the litter when it comes to recruits.

People are ranking duke in the teens for next year, but for once, I think we are actually being underrated. I think a final four next year is definitely possible. It's a pretty deep team with size and shooting, and also some guys who have played for 3-4 years together, some of whom are national champions. I think it all depends on just how good Murphy is, and how well Quinn cook and gbinijie improve this offseason.

I believe Murphy's absolute ceiling next year is freshman Kyle singler, which I think would absolutely put us in the top 5 in the nation. Worst case, he's a tall spot up shooter who we can sub in for offense, and gbinijie on D.

I think we basically know what we are going to get from everyone else, except Dawkins, who we can just bench at this point if his shot isn't falling. but assuming cook and gbinijie follow a normal freshman to sophomore progression, we should be final four contenders.

[mgtr]

This may be rank heresy, but I have never been sold on the advantage to Duke of one and dones. Kyrie was great the first part of his season, but without him, we were still pretty good. Then when he came back, we had the Kyrie Irving show against Arizona. Now our problems defending Arizona were not due to Kyrie, but just the kind of team we had. But, at the end of the game, our offense was Kyrie driving to the basket, and Nolan standing around wondering what to do.
Austin was a good player, and benefitted from his year at Duke, but there wasn't a whole lot of teamwork. A lot of our game was stand and watch Austin. Of course, he will always be a hero for the UNC shot, and he did other good stuff. However, a team oriented, defense oriented strategy such as Duke employs doesn't fit that well around a superstar player.
We have, in the past, had plenty of stars -- Hurley, Laettner, Jason Williams, Grant Hill and others. But I don't recall that the team concept was suspended so much with those young men (probably, in part, because they stayed more than one year).
So, on the one hand I want to land important (probably one and done) recruits, but on the other hand, I wonder if they really help.

[loldevilz]

Well, so much for optimism and logic. If he wants to go help rebuild a suffering program, so be it. But after what I read in SI about Howland, I don't know why you make that choice over Coach K - other than Adidas. He does seem like a good kid and I wish him luck. Kind of disappointing that very few people are going to see most of his games.

I really underestimating how good UCLA will be next year. I will be shocked if they aren't a top 5 team. Kyle Anderson is going to be dominant next year. He is a 6-8 point guard with amazing passing skills. You just don't see that at the college level very often and having a good point guard can single handedly change a program.

You add Bazz to the mix they become even more dangerous. Bazz has an NBA skill set and will be unstoppable as a scorer. IMO those two guys will be two of the best players in Amerca.

They also have some nice players in the front court that have underachieved but could really breakout next year. We all know that college freshman can win it all and it wouldn't surprise me if UCLA won it all next year especially considering the state of college basketball.

[Dukehky]

This may be rank heresy, but I have never been sold on the advantage to Duke of one and dones. Kyrie was great the first part of his season, but without him, we were still pretty good. Then when he came back, we had the Kyrie Irving show against Arizona. Now are problems defending Arizona were not due to Kyrie, but just the kind of team we had. But, at the end of the game, our offense was Kyrie driving to the basket, and Nolan standing around wondering what to do.
Austin was a good player, and benefitted from his year at Duke, but there wasn't a whole lot of teamwork. A lot of our game was stand and watch Austin. Of course, he will always be a hero for the UNC shot, and he did other good stuff. However, a team oriented, defense oriented strategy such as Duke employs doesn't fit that well around a superstar player.
We have, in the past, had plenty of stars -- Hurley, Laettner, Jason Williams, Grant Hill and others. But I don't recall that the team concept was suspended so much with those young men (probably, in part, because they stayed more than one year).
So, on the one hand I want to land important (probably one and done) recruits, but on the other hand, I wonder if they really help.

It's clear to me that it's best to have a mix, and having elite players, no matter how young are always going to help. Duke changed their style of play after Kyrie went out and couldn't re-acclimate him into the offense as effectively as we needed to win the championship last year. Even with him, we were up by 9 over AZ at half-time. Of course those type of talents help, without Austin we lose tons of offense because literally no one except him could create his own shot. There are times when the offense stalls and you need players to do that. If Kyrie stayed healthy the whole year, barring some real dud of a game that we threw up, I don't see us losing a game a all, that team was that good.

[MCFinARL]

Does anyone else get the feeling that these top recruits list Duke as a school they're interested in just because it sounds good and makes them look more legit, even though they don't really plan on coming here? It's kind of like having the complete works of Williams Shakespeare on your bookshelf. You've never actually read them, nor do you plan to, but you like the reaction you get when people come to your house and see it.

Also, what a crazy coincidence that UCLA's two other recruits just happen to also be in the ESPN studio...

Someone else has already said what I would say about the last part of your post (would just add they had already interviewed two Kentucky recruits in the studio).

About the first part, I'm not sure it's about making themselves look more legit. I think a lot of it has to do with the real respect that Coach K has earned from recruits. Based on what these kids say on their recruiting blogs, many of them especially enjoy talking to K because he talks to them as people, not just prospects. For a recruit like Shabazz Muhammad, for example, who has heard a million BS pitches and seems like a thoughtful guy who really approached his recruitment with due diligence, I have to think that would be very appealing--and it would keep Duke in play for a long time. But it might not be the deciding factor.

[mgtr]

It's clear to me that it's best to have a mix, and having elite players, no matter how young are always going to help. Duke changed their style of play after Kyrie went out and couldn't re-acclimate him into the offense as effectively as we needed to win the championship last year. Even with him, we were up by 9 over AZ at half-time. Of course those type of talents help, without Austin we lose tons of offense because literally no one except him could create his own shot. There are times when the offense stalls and you need players to do that. If Kyrie stayed healthy the whole year, barring some real dud of a game that we threw up, I don't see us losing a game a all, that team was that good.

OK, sure, I agree that if Kyrie hadn't had that freak accident, we would have been nearly unbeatable all year, and our tournament result would have been different. Good point.

[Duvall]

I really underestimating how good UCLA will be next year. I will be shocked if they aren't a top 5 team. Kyle Anderson is going to be dominant next year. He is a 6-8 point guard with amazing passing skills. You just don't see that at the college level very often and having a good point guard can single handedly change a program.

You add Bazz to the mix they become even more dangerous. Bazz has an NBA skill set and will be unstoppable as a scorer. IMO those two guys will be two of the best players in Amerca.

They also have some nice players in the front court that have underachieved but could really breakout next year. We all know that college freshman can win it all and it wouldn't surprise me if UCLA won it all next year especially considering the state of college basketball.

Yeah, but it's not like Muhammad and Anderson will be joining a program on the rise. UCLA was terrible last year, a sub-NIT squad. They have a long way to go to get back in the top 25, let alone the top 5.

[COYS]

Nolan Smith definitely improved his draft position his senior year--but he was not a lottery pick. He was chosen 21st. Unless you meant Henderson, in which case I misunderstood your sentence structure.

I think the OP was referring to Gerald with the lottery pick comment.

[dukedoc]

I really underestimating how good UCLA will be next year. I will be shocked if they aren't a top 5 team. Kyle Anderson is going to be dominant next year. He is a 6-8 point guard with amazing passing skills. You just don't see that at the college level very often and having a good point guard can single handedly change a program.

You add Bazz to the mix they become even more dangerous. Bazz has an NBA skill set and will be unstoppable as a scorer. IMO those two guys will be two of the best players in Amerca.

They also have some nice players in the front court that have underachieved but could really breakout next year. We all know that college freshman can win it all and it wouldn't surprise me if UCLA won it all next year especially considering the state of college basketball.

I agree they have potential to be very good. However, it's hard to go from rags to riches that quickly, even with two exquisite talents coming in. Also, they'll have just one year to hit the jackpot, as Bazz ain't stickin' around past this time next year, that's for sure. Kyle too, perhaps.

[Bluedog]

I'm not saying it's going to turn out the same way, but I see a similarities in how things went down before the '09-10 championship season and this upcoming season.

1.) Seven losses on the season
2.) Seeded #2 in NCAA tournament and suffered unfortunate defeat in NCAA tournament (to WV after narrowly defeating #15 Belmont, Lehigh this year)
3.) Best player leaves early for the NBA (Gerald, Austin)
4.) Top recruit at key position spurns Duke after long drawn out recruitment (Wall, Shabazz)
5.) Only two proven guys on the perimeter in 2009 (Scheyer and Nolan), two proven frontcourt guys in 2012 (Kelly and Mason)
6.) Question marks at PG (Scheyer converted, Thornton has limitations and Quinn is unproven)

Perhaps I'm grasping at straws as there are likely always similarities, but I'm staying optimistic. With Shabazz going elsewhere, we still have a lot of talent and I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out! I really think Murphy can give us good minutes at the WF and everybody else just needs to step up. Mason can go in beast mode and I think Rasheed can really contribute as well. It certainly goes on and I'm sure Coach K is still confident in this group that they have the potential to be very good.

[Dukehky]

Nolan Smith definitely improved his draft position his senior year--but he was not a lottery pick. He was chosen 21st.

I didn't mean Nolan was drafted in the lottery, I meant that he had some raw athleticism coming into college like Gerald and when they paired that with a great work ethic along with continued improvement, they really shot themselves up the draft board. I was extremely surprised Nolan went that high, and that's a testament to his hard work, and Gerald left because he couldn't justify passing up a pretty much guaranteed lottery spot.

All i mean is that the ceiling is higher for kids with greater athletic ability even if their basketball skills are a little raw, especially if they show they have the drive to improve their game and use their athleticism as a tool to do so.

[MCFinARL]

I think the OP was referring to Gerald with the lottery pick comment.

Yes, I figured that out and edited my post. Gotta remember, read twice before posting.

[UrinalCake]

So do you think some coaches only start to look at guys once they see that "Duke" is on the list? I don't understand the "makes them look more legit" idea?

I was thinking more like it helps their image. Maybe it helps emphasize that academics are really important to them. I'm not thinking so much of the effect on other coaches as on the fans and media.

I do agree with MCFinARL that Coach K garners respect and any top recruit would want to get to know him. I just feel like there are guys that keep us on their "list" without really intending to come here, rather than just not including us at all. Maybe I'm overreacting to the whole Shabazz thing...

[dcdevil2009]

Despite all the speculation, does anyone have any actual evidence of Adidas playing a potentially nefarious role in Shabazz's commitment to UCLA as opposed to rumors or uncited sources? There's nothing he's done or said to indicate that Adidas was the driving factor and there are plenty of other legitimate reasons for him to have chosen somewhere other than Duke, such as proximity to home, the ability to restore them to national prominence and coach who has recently gone to back to back final fours. Just because he didn't choose Duke doesn't mean there was something shady going on. Shabazz seems like a good kid and if he was someone we were willing to embrace as part of the Duke family a little more than an hour ago, then we should probably give him the benefit of the doubt that he chose the school he felt most comfortable with for the right reasons.

[Gthoma2a]

I'm not saying it's going to turn out the same way, but I see a similarities in how things went down before the '09-10 championship season and this upcoming season.

1.) Seven losses on the season
2.) Seeded #2 in NCAA tournament and suffered unfortunate defeat in NCAA tournament (to WV after narrowly defeating #15 Belmont, Lehigh this year)
3.) Best player leaves early for the NBA (Gerald, Austin)
4.) Top recruit at key position spurns Duke after long drawn out recruitment (Wall, Shabazz)
5.) Only two proven guys on the perimeter in 2009 (Scheyer and Nolan), two proven frontcourt guys in 2012 (Kelly and Mason)
6.) Question marks at PG (Scheyer converted, Thornton has limitations and Quinn is unproven)

Perhaps I'm grasping at straws as there are likely always similarities, but I'm staying optimistic. With Shabazz going elsewhere, we still have a lot of talent and I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out! I really think Murphy can give us good minutes at the WF and everybody else just needs to step up. Mason can go in beast mode and I think Rasheed can really contribute as well. It certainly goes on and I'm sure Coach K is still confident in this group that they have the potential to be very good.

Closer to 08-09 in one important way, IMO. Coming off of a first round exit. No Mason. No Ryan. Nobody coming early, Dre. No Singler, who had already proven to be a killer. No Scheyer who had shown to be creative/pretty clutch in the prior season. No Lance Thomas who could guard every position on the floor.

I hope for the same result, but this isn't like that team in a lot of ways.

[Duvall]

Despite all the speculation, does anyone have any actual evidence of Adidas playing a potentially nefarious role in Shabazz's commitment to UCLA as opposed to rumors or uncited sources?

We have plenty of hearsay and conjecture - those are *kinds* of evidence.

[Des Esseintes]

He could have tried to rebuild our program just as easily. We lost to Lehigh in the first round this year. Getting us back into the title talk would be just as big IMO. It would have put him on ESPN every game and showed that he can do more than Austin Rivers (first round pick). I would have thought it would be a competition to be better than someone who was very good before you.

Did we win or lose that game against Lehigh? I can't remember anymore. Somebody remind me.

In all seriousness, it's kind of amazing that you can be presented with the sterling example of UCLA--an elite program who has actually been wandering in the wilderness the past few seasons--and still have so little perspective that you think Duke is in need of a "rebuild." We were a top 10 team all season who beat multiple #1 seeds as well as a #2. We did it with offense, despite your repeated and groundless complaints in this thread about a lack of scoring punch. The kenpom numbers back this up. Traditional stats back this up. The fact that we had 5-6 different players who could go for 20 on a night backs this up. The defense... was mediocre. It must improve next year, and I have confidence it will. We bring back a ton of talent. Everyone's maturation plus Sulaimon plus the two redshirts more than balances the loss of senior Miles and freshman Austin.

Muhammad would have made Duke better, no question. But to get all dour about a recruit absolutely no one beyond this board thought was coming to Durham is absurd.