Shabazz Muhammad to UCLA

[Native]

When you say Rasheed do you mean Amile?

No, this was at the screening of Hill and Laettner's "Back to Back" documentary about the '91 and '92 teams repeating as NCAA champions. This was the night before the game during Personal Checks and Coach K's "Team Talk". Amile wasn't there; only Shabazz and Rasheed. I don't think Amile had arrived yet.

[Mike Corey]

From a Crazie who was front row for the screening, College GameDay, and the game, he didn't look too enthused. For example, during the 91/92 documentary screening he only looked at the screen once — for Laettner's shot over Kentucky. That was it. The rest of the time he was texting. FWIW, every other player on the team — and Rasheed, for that matter — were locked in on it for the entire time.

Then again, there's a lot more to recruiting than a documentary screening, and a lot goes on behind the scenes. Just reporting what I saw.

Thanks for sharing your observations.

I would submit, however, that such is not necessarily the best way to assess an individual's enjoyment of a recruiting visit.

There are experts out there that can and probably have already written about Bazz's visit. Airowe, Watzone, John Watson, Clint Jackson, etc.

[yancem]

Henson was the 5th ranked recruit, nationally. Amile is 20th. Huge difference when it comes to expectations of being able to step in and contribute immediately. If Henson was raw enough to be ranked in the 20s, his skinniness may well have held him back for a year.

While I don't disagree with this point, but I remember a lot of people on this board making the same remarks about Henson that we are now hearing about Jefferson. Skinny is skinny, regardless of how skilled you are. I think that this is part of the reason that Ol'Roy tried so hard to play Henson at the 3 the first half of the year. I'm not saying that Jefferson will be as good as Henson just that they have similar body types and that if Jefferson's game is ready enough skill wise to get minutes then his build should hold him back anymore than Henson's. To be fair, from what little I have seen of Jefferson, it seems that he is further along offensively then defensively which was the reverse for Henson and we know that defense is what gets you minutes at Duke.

[Native]

Thanks for sharing your observations.

I would submit, however, that such is not necessarily the best way to assess an individual's enjoyment of a recruiting visit.

There are experts out there that can and probably have already written about Bazz's visit. Airowe, Watzone, John Watson, Clint Jackson, etc.

Never claimed it was, nor do I have any real information. Just reporting what I saw.

[Devilsfan]

Which one of the "experts" mentioned above were out with Bazz, team members, etc. post game night to see how much he enjoyed his visit?

[Mike Corey]

Pretty sure Watzone and Airowe masqueraded as waiters; John Watson was a pseudo-bouncer; and Clint Jackson went undercover.

You know, per usual.

[Dev11]

Kyrie wasn't even the #1 point guard in his class, that was Brandon Knight. He certainly wasnt a presumed lottery pick coming in So you gotta give K a little more credit than Calipari there.

That might have been true following their junior year of high school, but Kyrie blew up over the summer and received much more attention his senior year. By the time we got around to seriously recruiting him, he was ahead of Knight.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&...pid=88&yr=2010

Although I don't begrudge the giving of credit to K and not to the greasy Cat

[dcdevil2009]

I have always felt that programs or coaches have little impact on elite players getting to the NBA. I feel it is ludicrous to say that Calipari "got" John Wall to the NBA, and for matter, I think it is ridiculous to say that Coach K got Kyrie Irving to the NBA.

The elite players such as those two examples are going to get to the NBA no matter where they spend their 8 months of college (assuming they finish the second semester).

Now, for non-elite or marginal players, it actually could make a difference where they go and who coaches them. Certainly learning techniques, work ethic, and developing an understanding of the game could be what a boaderline player needs to rise to that next level and get a shot at the pros.

But for the truely one and done talent I am not convinced that it makes a bit of difference where they go to get into the NBA. Now, I will say that going to a program that requires discipline, and has good mentors and role models may make a player more sucessful in the NBA (ie, second contract and beyond) by teaching them responsibility and the value of teamwork, etc...

I agree with you somewhat that an NBA-calliber player will probably get to the NBA no matter where he goes to school, but would add that where one goes to school can impact where in the draft a player goes, either through development during his time on campus or just by virtue of the exposure. Steph Curry, for example would almost certainly have made it to the NBA had he gone to somewhere other than Davidson, however getting the chance to be the focal point of their offense allowed him to put up the numbers that he did, which probably helped his draft stock significantly. Remember the numbers Seth put up his freshman year at liberty, where he led all freshmen in scoring. I think we'd all agree that he's more talented now, but he's not putting up the same numbers.

There's a difference between getting a player to the pros and preparing him for an NBA career. If I remember correctly, there was a Jay Bilas article about Ben Howland's program preparing players for the NBA a couple years ago where he looked at the UCLA players who went to the league under Howland. Guys like Russell Westbrook and Jrue Holliday were relatively high rated recruits and would likely have made the NBA regardless of where they went, but their draft stock dropped slightly while they were at UCLA. However, once they got into the league, several of Howland's former players have outperformed their draft-positions as well as their pre-UCLA expectations. The point I'm trying to make is that where a kid goes to school might not have an impact on whether he makes the NBA, but can have a big effect on his draft position and what he does once he gets to the league. Look at Kyrie, while he might not have played a lot of minutes, I find it hard to believe that his time under Coach K at Duke off the court as well as on it, definitely helped him develop the incredible maturity he's displayed thus far in his career.

[mapleleafdevil]

So, K apparently re-ups with the national team until 2016.

Message to Shabazz:

Wanna play for gold in Rio?

[Kedsy]

Steph Curry, for example would almost certainly have made it to the NBA had he gone to somewhere other than Davidson, however getting the chance to be the focal point of their offense allowed him to put up the numbers that he did, which probably helped his draft stock significantly. Remember the numbers Seth put up his freshman year at liberty, where he led all freshmen in scoring. I think we'd all agree that he's more talented now, but he's not putting up the same numbers.

I think most of the time, NBA scouts see through the numbers. I don't think they're impressed by big numbers at low-major programs. Steph Curry might be an exception, but my guess is it was his NCAA tournament performance that pumped up his draft stock, rather than his gaudy scoring average in the Southern Conference. If Seth had stayed at Liberty and kept scoring 20+ points a game, I believe his draft stock would still be lower than it is playing and scoring like he has for Duke.

[SupaDave]

So, K apparently re-ups with the national team until 2016.

Message to Shabazz:

Wanna play for gold in Rio?

Love the optimism but in the remote possibility the 2016 Olympics could happen, Bazz could still accomplish this by playing elsewhere.

[MCFinARL]

Love the optimism but in the remote possibility the 2016 Olympics could happen, Bazz could still accomplish this by playing elsewhere.

? I'm confused. Are you saying you don't think there will be a 2016 Olympics? Why not?

[DukeFanSince1990]

? I'm confused. Are you saying you don't think there will be a 2016 Olympics? Why not?

Because of the the Mayan calendar, duh.

[MCFinARL]

Because of the the Mayan calendar, duh.

Oh, right. I'm always in denial about the imminence of the apocalypse.

[yancem]

I think most of the time, NBA scouts see through the numbers. I don't think they're impressed by big numbers at low-major programs. Steph Curry might be an exception, but my guess is it was his NCAA tournament performance that pumped up his draft stock, rather than his gaudy scoring average in the Southern Conference. If Seth had stayed at Liberty and kept scoring 20+ points a game, I believe his draft stock would still be lower than it is playing and scoring like he has for Duke.

While think that you are probably correct, it is also possible that because Seth would have been carrying a larger load that he would have been forced to expand his game more than he has at Duke where he has been been able to rely more on his teammates more. Of course it's possible that the increased load would have more fully exposed any weaknesses in his game.

I do think that this would be in interesting case study if you could somehow see where both paths would have end up leading. There were some "experts" that thought that Seth would end up better than Steph. Where the experts mistaken, is Steph just more competitive/mentally stronger or simply worked harder, or was the small school path just better from the Curry's. We will never know but it is an interesting question.

And for the record, I am not trying to bash Seth. I think that he has been a great addition to the program and that he is s very good basketball player. It's just that Steph (at least for the moment) appears to be the better basketball player.

[davekay1971]

Silly me. And here I thought the apocalypse happened between 7 and 9 pm last Saturday. You mean the world hasn't ended? Can I come out of my basement yet?

[MCFinARL]

Silly me. And here I thought the apocalypse happened between 7 and 9 pm last Saturday. You mean the world hasn't ended? Can I come out of my basement yet?

Possibly it SHOULD have ended, but in fact, we're all still here. Come on out.

[Li_Duke]

I don't know, Wall would have been the #1 pick out of high school if not for the one year rule. Kyrie wasn't even the #1 point guard in his class, that was Brandon Knight. He certainly wasnt a presumed lottery pick coming in So you gotta give K a little more credit than Calipari there.

Gotta agree with this one. Don't forget Josh Selby was the other top notch PG in that class, and he fell to the 2nd round.

[UrinalCake]

That might have been true following their junior year of high school, but Kyrie blew up over the summer and received much more attention his senior year. By the time we got around to seriously recruiting him, he was ahead of Knight.

Kyrie committed in October of 2009, the start of his senior season in high school. We began recruiting him way before then. So at least credit K for recognizing the talent before he really started to show it, at least relative to his peers. I remember following Knight's recruitment very closely and it was clear when we started to back off of him and pursue Kyrie instead. Then, as I mentioned before, we really showcased him and put him in a situation where he could maximize his skills. Also, the coaching staff's treatment of him during his injury rehab was admirable - they didn't push for him to come back and play, they just wanted him to heal and preserve his long-term playing abilities. Not sure you'd get the same treatment at UK.

[Kedsy]

Kyrie committed in October of 2009, the start of his senior season in high school. We began recruiting him way before then. So at least credit K for recognizing the talent before he really started to show it, at least relative to his peers.

I'm not sure when K began recruiting Kyrie, but it's not like Kyrie was unknown before his senior season. In the RSCI summer 2009 rankings (for the 2010 class), Kyrie was ranked #4 overall, albeit the 2nd highest ranked PG behind #3 Knight.