His crazy talent would have been there anyways, but Coach K did design the entire offense around him (pre-injury) and then put enough trust in him to let him play key minutes in the NCAAT. So while we can't say that Duke "made" him the #1 draft pick, we can certainly say that a player with enough talent will be given the opportunity to shine.
I also don't think Calipari made John Wall the #1 pick. #1 picks are typically pretty special talents who will find their way to the top almost regardless of who is coaching them, a la John Wall, Blake Griffin, and Derrick Rose. I doubt that adolescents are thinking much more deeply than "John Wall - Kentucky, Blake Griffin - Oklahoma, Kyrie Irving - Duke, etc..."
If that is the case, I will certainly put Airowe's support in the "soft evidence" category -- and I don't mean that in any negative sense. I have loads of trust in Airowe, but in this case I'm going to hold on to a bit of my skepticism. That is, unless Airowe himself comes out and says in unequivocal terms that my skepticism is unwarranted.
I mean, for that matter, let's worry about the ACC Championship first, then the National Championship. And after that, we'll have all the time in the world to focus on next year. Ugh, the off season... *shudders*
On the contrary, I think there are some people who would argue that was actually the exact reason, although I am not one of them. We're on the internet, after all. Expect any rhetorical position to be completely oversaturated.
Now, I definitely agree with this. Kyrie's injury could be spun by malcontents as nullifying any positive influence Duke might claim to have had on his trajectory. We don't have any control over that though, short of spinning it the other way, i.e. telling the truth. Hopefully young people will listen most carefully to Kyrie himself, who has described previously the positive influence Duke has had on him.
Right. But it can also, as you point out, be spun in the opposite direction: "Look at what the incredible facilities at Duke did for Kyrie. He suffered a fluke, career-threatening injury, and the top notch Duke medical staff prudently nursed him back to 100% before still allowing him to showcase his talent briefly in the NCAA tournament and thereby launch himself into the #1 draft pick."
In recruiting, the spin-machines work both ways. Ultimately, when choosing what to believe, it is up to the recruit. For better or worse.
Last edited by Jderf; 03-05-2012 at 01:26 PM.
On the other hand, and as you note Kyrie would support this, the excellent care Kyrie got for his injury through duke undoubtedly had a lot to do with his being ready to go to the NBA this year. His freakish injury could have been a lifelong issue and is not, and Duke has a lot to do with that.
Does anybody know how Bazz's visit went this weekend?
I think this is a critical point. Although I am prone to forgetting this, there is SO much that goes on behind the scenes in recruiting that it's impossible to know what will or will not sway a particular recruit. It's also a reminder that a loss at home to our arch-rival in front of highly prized recruits is unlikely to be influential in their ultimate decisions. There's just so much else for them to consider.
All we (our coaches/program) can do is try our best and let things fall where they may. It makes me ever more grateful to have someone like K at the helm who will, without a doubt, shape whatever sum of talent he has at the beginning of each season into a formidable team. He's done it time and time again.
Although we'll be losing a HUGE recruiting selling point when K retires in sixteen years, I think there are enough impressive features intrinsic to our program and extrinsic from K himself, that we'll continue to be a recruiting powerhouse. Thus, spin or no spin, we'll always be fine at the end of the day, me thinks.
From a Crazie who was front row for the screening, College GameDay, and the game, he didn't look too enthused. For example, during the 91/92 documentary screening he only looked at the screen once — for Laettner's shot over Kentucky. That was it. The rest of the time he was texting. FWIW, every other player on the team — and Rasheed, for that matter — were locked in on it for the entire time.
Then again, there's a lot more to recruiting than a documentary screening, and a lot goes on behind the scenes. Just reporting what I saw.
A pox upon you! We had gone several pages in this thread about Shabazz Muhammad without mentioning his name once... and you had to go break the run with a simple request for info.
Dude, you gotta learn... the last place to talk about recruiting is in a thread about recruiting
-Jason "I keed, I keed" Evans
Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?
I have always felt that programs or coaches have little impact on elite players getting to the NBA. I feel it is ludicrous to say that Calipari "got" John Wall to the NBA, and for matter, I think it is ridiculous to say that Coach K got Kyrie Irving to the NBA.
The elite players such as those two examples are going to get to the NBA no matter where they spend their 8 months of college (assuming they finish the second semester).
Now, for non-elite or marginal players, it actually could make a difference where they go and who coaches them. Certainly learning techniques, work ethic, and developing an understanding of the game could be what a boaderline player needs to rise to that next level and get a shot at the pros.
But for the truely one and done talent I am not convinced that it makes a bit of difference where they go to get into the NBA. Now, I will say that going to a program that requires discipline, and has good mentors and role models may make a player more sucessful in the NBA (ie, second contract and beyond) by teaching them responsibility and the value of teamwork, etc...
I don't know, Wall would have been the #1 pick out of high school if not for the one year rule. Kyrie wasn't even the #1 point guard in his class, that was Brandon Knight. He certainly wasnt a presumed lottery pick coming in So you gotta give K a little more credit than Calipari there.