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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleIrish View Post
    How exactly does the shoe issue play into recruits thinking, generally?

    People keep mentioning that UCLA is an "Adidas School", and that could/should play into a recruits decision making. How does that play out? Is it direct overt pressure from a Shoe Rep, telling the kid to go to "their" school? Is it pressure from the AAU coach, who's getting paid by that shoe company? Is it simply brand allegiance by the recruit, wanting to look good? Is it a less overt pressure in the form of connecting to a shoe contract once the recruit goes pro (and is that communicated by someone from the shoe company)?

    I'm a bit lost on the whole brand tie-in to recruiting, but it does come up from time to time. Any help?

    thanks,

    s.i.
    I'd say yes to all of the above within reason. Shabazz is a special circumstance because his sister is a pro tennis player and is under contract with Adidas.

  2. #642
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    San Francisco
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleIrish View Post
    How exactly does the shoe issue play into recruits thinking, generally?

    People keep mentioning that UCLA is an "Adidas School", and that could/should play into a recruits decision making. How does that play out? Is it direct overt pressure from a Shoe Rep, telling the kid to go to "their" school? Is it pressure from the AAU coach, who's getting paid by that shoe company? Is it simply brand allegiance by the recruit, wanting to look good? Is it a less overt pressure in the form of connecting to a shoe contract once the recruit goes pro (and is that communicated by someone from the shoe company)?

    I'm a bit lost on the whole brand tie-in to recruiting, but it does come up from time to time. Any help?

    thanks,

    s.i.
    I believe Shabazz's AAU coach (who also happens to be his godfather) is (and has been for a long time) paid by Adidas. Not sure it's a be-all-end-all, but I do think the Adidas connection is the primary reason close UCLA followers have believed for about a year now that Shabazz is a lock for UCLA.
    Last edited by gam7; 04-09-2012 at 04:05 PM. Reason: correction...
    "I don't like them when they are eating my azaleas or rhododendrons or pansies." - Coach K

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by gam7 View Post
    I believe Shabazz's AAU coach (who also happens to be his godfather) is (and has been for a long time) paid by Adidas. Not sure it's a be-all-end-all, but I do think the Adidas connection is the primary reason close UCLA followers have believed for about a year now that Shabazz is a lock for UCLA.
    Also, his sister is a tennis player who is sponsored by Adidas.

  4. #644
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by gam7 View Post
    I believe Shabazz's AAU coach (who also happens to be his godfather) is (and has been for a long time) paid by Adidas. Not sure it's a be-all-end-all, but I do think the Adidas connection is the primary reason close UCLA followers have believed for about a year now that Shabazz is a lock for UCLA.
    I am not sure that answers the question as it was posed, and I too am curious to know the answer. Is the idea "brand loyalty" or "goodwill" -- i.e., that his godfather and sister are paid by and/or treated well by Adidas so the brand connection allures? Or is it business planning?

    If it is the former, I think that's a bit of a goofy principal reason to base a college decision on, but suppose it could provide one more ancillary reason why a recruit would feel drawn to a program.

    But if it's something else-- say, the idea that playing in Adidas a year early will boost his potential endorsement deal with a Company to which he already has indirect ties-- that seems like a weirdly sophisticated level of intentional business planning. Not saying it's wrong, but it's another sign that college ball is "professionalizing" in collateral ways that the NCAA does not (and perhaps could not) regulate.

  5. #645
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Macon, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Monmouth77 View Post
    I am not sure that answers the question as it was posed, and I too am curious to know the answer. Is the idea "brand loyalty" or "goodwill" -- i.e., that his godfather and sister are paid by and/or treated well by Adidas so the brand connection allures? Or is it business planning?

    If it is the former, I think that's a bit of a goofy principal reason to base a college decision on, but suppose it could provide one more ancillary reason why a recruit would feel drawn to a program.

    But if it's something else-- say, the idea that playing in Adidas a year early will boost his potential endorsement deal with a Company to which he already has indirect ties-- that seems like a weirdly sophisticated level of intentional business planning. Not saying it's wrong, but it's another sign that college ball is "professionalizing" in collateral ways that the NCAA does not (and perhaps could not) regulate.
    There have been some who say his ties are somewhat more direct than indirect, but to try and avoid rumor mongering i will say i do not believe anything legitimate has surfaced on the subject.

  6. #646
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Monmouth77 View Post
    I am not sure that answers the question as it was posed, and I too am curious to know the answer. Is the idea "brand loyalty" or "goodwill" -- i.e., that his godfather and sister are paid by and/or treated well by Adidas so the brand connection allures? Or is it business planning?

    If it is the former, I think that's a bit of a goofy principal reason to base a college decision on, but suppose it could provide one more ancillary reason why a recruit would feel drawn to a program.

    But if it's something else-- say, the idea that playing in Adidas a year early will boost his potential endorsement deal with a Company to which he already has indirect ties-- that seems like a weirdly sophisticated level of intentional business planning. Not saying it's wrong, but it's another sign that college ball is "professionalizing" in collateral ways that the NCAA does not (and perhaps could not) regulate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    There have been some who say his ties are somewhat more direct than indirect, but to try and avoid rumor mongering i will say i do not believe anything legitimate has surfaced on the subject.
    Not to be whistling past the graveyard, but if Adidas made Shabazz a lock for UCLA, why has he waited so long? -- sage

  7. #647
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    Feb 2007
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    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Not to be whistling past the graveyard, but if Adidas made Shabazz a lock for UCLA, why has he waited so long? -- sage
    Maybe to make it appear like there is no "direct" link to Adidas and he wasn't always a "lock".
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  8. #648
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by gam7 View Post
    I believe Shabazz's AAU coach (who also happens to be his godfather) is (and has been for a long time) paid by Adidas. Not sure it's a be-all-end-all, but I do think the Adidas connection is the primary reason close UCLA followers have believed for about a year now that Shabazz is a lock for UCLA.
    Not only is Shabazz's godfather president of Adidas-sponsored Dreamvision (Shabazz's AAU team) and his sister contracted with Adidas, his father Ron Holmes is also employed by Dreamvision. So, there are definitely connections, nefarious or not.

    Holmes had this to say about it:

    "What I have to say is that [Adidas] has never once come at me about 'Bazz going to an Adidas school. They'll say if he goes to an Adidas school like UCLA or Kansas that means they'll get to see him more because [they] go and watch those games. But they've never come at me like that. Adidas has never done anything they weren't supposed to do."

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoCrazy84 View Post
    USC is a completely different animal than UCLA basketball and even more so, college football is a heck of a lot bigger than college basketball when it comes to $$$$ and marketing athletes. I get what you are saying, but I don't think those are fair comparisons.
    We'll just probably have to agree to disagree. For what it's worth, my take is that LA fans are quick to jump on what has buzz. The Angels have lapped the Dodgers in attendance -- even last year, before Pujols -- and the long-moribund Clippers have surpassed the Lakers by a tick in the same building this season. I see no reason that a resurgent UCLA team with a Kentucky-style recruiting class and accordant success couldn't stimulate just as much excitement as your typical USC football team, especially given the storied history of the program.

  10. #650
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Lincoln Ne
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    We'll just probably have to agree to disagree. For what it's worth, my take is that LA fans are quick to jump on what has buzz. The Angels have lapped the Dodgers in attendance -- even last year, before Pujols -- and the long-moribund Clippers have surpassed the Lakers by a tick in the same building this season. I see no reason that a resurgent UCLA team with a Kentucky-style recruiting class and accordant success couldn't stimulate just as much excitement as your typical USC football team, especially given the storied history of the program.
    Yeah this is a team that sucked this year in a city that doesn't support bad teams. Not a big deal If Shabazz goes to UCLA and they start winning games the place will be hopping.

  11. #651
    In terms of the Adidas connection:

    This isn't to say that Muhammad won't go to UCLA, but I'm not 100 percent sure this will be the reason. Don't underestimate the relative hierarchy among sneaker companies in America. Jordan alone is 71 percent of the market share. The rest of Nike basketball is at 22 percent, while Adidas comes in at 3 percent. If I'm a rising athlete who hopes to have a brand someday -- insert Barnes joke here -- regardless of what I did for AAU, I'd want to associate myself with Nike. I realize Adidas schools still get recruits, Kansas obviously still does fine, but just sayin'. I don't see many teenagers walking around New York City with Adidas on. It's all Jordan.

  12. #652
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    Nashville
    I think the implication is more that three of the most important people in his life depend on Adidas for their income. Don't want to extrapolate further on what that could mean if the very murky world of recruiting, but at the very least, you can see where that could hold a little sway, even if he has no intention of signing with Adidas.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    I think the implication is more that three of the most important people in his life depend on Adidas for their income. Don't want to extrapolate further on what that could mean if the very murky world of recruiting, but at the very least, you can see where that could hold a little sway, even if he has no intention of signing with Adidas.
    Yup, I see where you're coming from. I'm just saying that if Shabazz wants to get started wearing Jordans in college, I don't think this would stop him. I'm hardly an expert, but I'd have to think his earning potential is greater with the healthier company. And honestly, is Adidas going to fire his family or whatever? (Maybe his sister, but I'd have to think that would be performance based. Mind you, I have no idea how good she is at tennis.)

    If he picks UCLA, will this be a factor? Probably, but I can't imagine it'd be the main factor, or even that high on the list. I dunno, like I said, not an expert. And I'm well aware of the connection here, Play Their Hearts Out, and all that. Just my feeling on a recruit as good as Shabazz.

  14. #654
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_Newton View Post
    I think the implication is more that three of the most important people in his life depend on Adidas for their income. Don't want to extrapolate further on what that could mean if the very murky world of recruiting, but at the very least, you can see where that could hold a little sway, even if he has no intention of signing with Adidas.
    The funny thing about all of this is that I can't find ONE picture of Shabazz in Adidas...

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    The funny thing about all of this is that I can't find ONE picture of Shabazz in Adidas...
    It's true, I had a look around. I only saw him in Adidas at the McDonald's Game, where everyone wears it. I took this at the Hoophall Classic of Bazz in Jordans.

    My favorite creative usage of high school sneakers was LeBron. He'd change his brand every single game and it only served to stimulate buzz toward his record-breaking Nike contract.

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Starter View Post
    In terms of the Adidas connection:

    This isn't to say that Muhammad won't go to UCLA, but I'm not 100 percent sure this will be the reason. Don't underestimate the relative hierarchy among sneaker companies in America. Jordan alone is 71 percent of the market share. The rest of Nike basketball is at 22 percent, while Adidas comes in at 3 percent. If I'm a rising athlete who hopes to have a brand someday -- insert Barnes joke here -- regardless of what I did for AAU, I'd want to associate myself with Nike. I realize Adidas schools still get recruits, Kansas obviously still does fine, but just sayin'. I don't see many teenagers walking around New York City with Adidas on. It's all Jordan.
    Hey Starter,
    not to derail the thread....just curious, where did you get these stats? I would guess that Nike (x-Jordan Brand) would dominate.

  17. #657
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    Hey Starter,
    not to derail the thread....just curious, where did you get these stats? I would guess that Nike (x-Jordan Brand) would dominate.
    His numbers are a little old...

    https://twitter.com/#!/darrenrovell/...37037767806976

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    Hey Starter,
    not to derail the thread....just curious, where did you get these stats? I would guess that Nike (x-Jordan Brand) would dominate.
    I would have thought the same thing, and I also thought the 71 percent figure was way too high. But the info comes via Forbes, who took 2011 stats from the highly reliable SportsOneSource back in September. (I gave my take here, if anyone's interested.)

    I'll tell you this, far more than on the court, Jordan retros are king in casual wear. You see a lot of Nike on the court, since those are specifically constructed for that purpose and hold up better under duress, but it's all Jordan on the streets. (That includes the Team Jordans, less expensive models for those who simply want a Jumpman but don't feel like shelling out $180.) Witness Jabari, who wore Hyperdunks during the game and Concords afterward. I'm lousy at math, but between Jordan and the Swoosh, Nike has a 93 percent market share on basketball sneakers. Obviously, that's pretty good.

    That's why I feel like a kid like Shabazz, who's already wearing Jordans, would be inclined to stay that way all things equal. It's why the Jordan Game has made such serious inroads to the point where it's probably the equal of, if not more significant, than the McDonald's Game: Kids love gear, and you get a bunch of Jordan stuff and shoes if you go.

    If I had to guess, I'd think he goes to Kentucky. It seems the easiest route, they're hot right now, and it seems like it'd be a bit of a risk going to Duke in comparison. But let's hope he takes that risk.

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    This is from March.

    Matt Powell ‏ @mattSOS Reply Retweet Favorite Open
    Basketball shoes in March up mid singles. Adidas +50% (4.5% share0. Nike (33%) up low teens. Jordan (58%) flat. Retro -5%, Marquee +10%
    Jordan's share has dropped, though still impressive at 58 percent. Factor the increase in Nike basketball -- lots of LeBrons, Kobes and KDs came out the past couple months -- and Nike still has a 91 percent share in the market, not far off last September. March was also a weak month for Jordan retro releases. Check back in July, when they release the Olympic 6 and 7. Any way you slice it, the number that impresses me the most is that Jordan sneakers resulted in a billion dollars (!!!) in sales over the past year.

  20. #660
    Shabazz just tweeted out that it's decision making time, with a picture of the Duke, UK, and UCLA National Letter of Intents on a table... The Duke one was on top. I know, I'm reaching.
    2009-2010 can't come soon enough.

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