The Official "Mason, for the love of God please stop BLEEPING reaching!!" Thread

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

they are totally different types of players.

Yeah, Nowitzki is not a good comp...

I think it is human nature to initially compare white players to other white players, but Mason's skill set is not one that is typicall possessed by white guys. Remember, white men can't jump. I am living proof of that.

Chris Anderson comes to mind as a big athletic white guy who can jump in the NBA. But, I think Mason has a lot of room to improve his offensive game, where he would become a better offensive player than Anderson.

A guy who is coming to mind as a good Mason comp is Anthony Randolph who played at LSU and plays for the Warriors. I think they are pretty similar type of players.

[Billy Dat]

OK - the Nowitzki comp is off, so they've got some other comp in mind - bottom line, mindsets seem to be changing. Right now, in the mind of NBA scouts, he seems to be considered the highest ranked pro prospect on our squad.

[FireOgilvie]

Right now, in the mind of NBA scouts, he seems to be considered the highest ranked pro prospect on our squad.

Yep.

Also, the Chris Andersen comparison that Sgt. gave is a pretty good one, IMO. There are probably others that are better.

I said before the season started that it wouldn't really take much for Mason to get drafted in the first round if he decided to come out. He's producing less than I thought he would and he's still projected in the first round. Like someone said, scouts pretty much only care about potential, especially with guys that appear to work really hard and have the right attitude (most Duke guys do).

[77devil]

In for 2 minutes and two fouls including a sloppy reach in. Guess the coaches haven't shown him the video yet. Show it to Miles too.

[PSurprise]

how much interest in Mason after his line vs. Va Tech. Ouch. Hopefully he can get into a rhythm and show us why there's any speculation (however small) in him at all.

[CDu]

how much interest in Mason after his line vs. Va Tech. Ouch. Hopefully he can get into a rhythm and show us why there's any speculation (however small) in him at all.

Probably the exact same interest as before last night. None of the NBA folks are looking at him based on what he's doing right now. It's all based in the fact that he's 6'10" with an NBA body and amazing leaping ability and coordination for a guy his size. They believe that they can develop the rest.

[davidrosenhp]

My dream is that one day Duke brings Battier back as an asst. coach, just to teach these ideas to players. He was (and is) a master at it.

Hate to repeat the oft mentioned wojo-is-no-big-man-coach, but I think it impacts recruiting of bigs and slows development of those we get. Don't want to wait for the development to come when we may only get another year or two out of Mason. Love the idea of Battier - he seems the type to want to coach someday, although he wasn't a big. Wish we could get Gminiski out of the booth - he was a real center. Wonder what Terry Chile (sp?) is doing these days? Alaa? Maybe Coach K can break his unwillingness to put only ex-players on the bench

[allenmurray]

Hate to repeat the oft mentioned wojo-is-no-big-man-coach, but I think it impacts recruiting of bigs and slows development of those we get. Don't want to wait for the development to come when we may only get another year or two out of Mason. Love the idea of Battier - he seems the type to want to coach someday, although he wasn't a big. Wish we could get Gminiski out of the booth - he was a real center. Wonder what Terry Chile (sp?) is doing these days? Alaa? Maybe Coach K can break his unwillingness to put only ex-players on the bench

Yeah, look what a lousy job he has been doing with Zoubs over the past few weeks. 'Cause we all know if you were never a true center in college you can't coach big men. We need a big man coach who is at least 6' 10" - somebody like Pete Newell.

[VanDuk]

Yeah, look what a lousy job he has been doing with Zoubs over the past few weeks. 'Cause we all know if you were never a true center in college you can't coach big men. We need a big man coach who is at least 6' 10" - somebody like Pete Newell.

Easy big fella.. lol

3 Weeks worth of good games for Zoub after 4 years does not a great coach make. Especially in light of the fact that we have been absolutely killed in March over that time by lack of inside production. I think the point he was trying to make was, it would be *helpful* to have someone who played the position to coach it.. which I am inclined to agree with. It's not necessary obviously.. but it would help. I don't think his point was you need someone tall to coach your frontcourt.

Nevertheless, I don't think there is a reasonable argument to be made for Duke being a breeding ground or recruiting hot bed for big guys.

[arnie]

Yeah, look what a lousy job he has been doing with Zoubs over the past few weeks. 'Cause we all know if you were never a true center in college you can't coach big men. We need a big man coach who is at least 6' 10" - somebody like Pete Newell.

Whether it's a real problem or only perception, the perception is very strong. I suspect this perception is partially why we didn't get the Patterson's, Monroe's and others we were after. Claiming our coaching staff has done a good job with Zoubek after 3 1/2 years of working with him is a stretch. For whatever reason, our recent bigs have not developed reliable inside moves and this creates the perception that our staff cannot coach big men.

[allenmurray]

I think the point he was trying to make was, it would be *helpful* to have someone who played the position to coach it.. which I am inclined to agree with. It's not necessary obviously.. but it would help.

It is simply not true that the best "big man" coaches in basketball have been folks who played at the 4 or 5 spot. While at first glance it seems logical, it simply ain't so. Big men don't create on their own - they are more dependant on point guard play for their offensive production than anyone the court. Having someone who has played point, who is a good overall coach of basketball, who is a good teacher of the game, and who understands positioning as it related to play development and scoring is what you need in a "big man" coach. The idea that you have to have played the position is simply not true.

[Jeffrey]

It is simply not true that the best "big man" coaches in basketball have been folks who played at the 4 or 5 spot. While at first glance it seems logical, it simply ain't so. Big men don't create on their own - they are more dependant on point guard play for their offensive production than anyone the court. Having someone who has played point, who is a good overall coach of basketball, who is a good teacher of the game, and who understands positioning as it related to play development and scoring is what you need in a "big man" coach. The idea that you have to have played the position is simply not true.

John Wooden!

[davidrosenhp]

Some good thoughts and I will concede you don't need to have played a position to coach it, but the evidence speaks for itself. Took Zoub 3 and 1/2 years to learn how to keep the ball above his shoulders and how to use his legs for defensive and offensive positioning – and 5 weeks ago people were complaining abouthim. We don't recruit or produce centers. I think Sheldon's struggles in the NBA show how little he learned here, and Brand is playing forward. There is also the element of summers: like the Miami 'Canes in football, Georgetown and UNC alumni play pick-up and work out with students in summers. Motumbo talked about how Ewing and 'Zo and other G-town big man pro's beat on him all summer long. Look, I think we have a great team and coach, but it is guards and swing men and 3's like Singler, McRoberts, Shav, Alarie, Lance Thomas, the transfer from Rutgers whose name I forget, and so on down low. Be interesting to see the Mason trajectory. I hope I'm wrong and he becomes a center, if only for a few more behind the head dunks.

[allenmurray]

John Wooden!

Do you mean the John Wooden who was 7' 3", and played center for the Cosmic All-Stars for 43 straight years? Of course he could coach big men.

But that other John Wooden, you know the one who coached at some no-name school on the west coast and never had any good big men play for him - the one who never won anything? You can't mean him - he couldn't develop big men - after all, he never played the position, did he?

[CDu]

It is simply not true that the best "big man" coaches in basketball have been folks who played at the 4 or 5 spot. While at first glance it seems logical, it simply ain't so.
...
The idea that you have to have played the position is simply not true.

Completely agreed. Pete Newell (arguably the best big man's coach ever), was not very big (about 6'2" I believe).

Having someone who has played point, who is a good overall coach of basketball, who is a good teacher of the game, and who understands positioning as it related to play development and scoring is what you need in a "big man" coach.

I disagree here. I don't think you need to have played any specific position to be a good big man's coach. You just need to be a good coach, a good teacher, and you need to know how to coach big men.

I don't know if Wojo is or is not suited to being a big man's coach. But nothing specific about having playing PG makes him any more or less suited to coach big men.

[davidrosenhp]

With no attempt at contempt, you can't use the best coach ever to make your point. That would be like saying since Michael could take off from the fould line and dunk, there's no reason Scheyer can't. Wooden was one of a kind.

[VanDuk]

Do you mean the John Wooden who was 7' 3", and played center for the Cosmic All-Stars for 43 straight years? Of course he could coach big men.

But that other John Wooden, you know the one who coached at some no-name school on the west coast and never had any good big men play for him - the one who never won anything? You can't mean him - he couldn't develop big men - after all, he never played the position, did he?

You completely miss the point that is trying to be made... or the fact that no one has said you have to be TALL to coach big guys. But that being said, if you believe Duke does a good job recruiting and coaching up it's big men.. then so be it.. I guess we just disagree.

Congratulations on your snappy comebacks though.

[allenmurray]

You completely miss the point that is trying to be made... or the fact that no one has said you have to be TALL to coach big guys. But that being said, if you believe Duke does a good job recruiting and coaching up it's big men.. then so be it.. I guess we just disagree.

Congratulations on your snappy comebacks though.

So the suggestions of Battier, Giminski, Alaa Abdelnaby and Chili were just coincidence?

Lighten up Francis.

[allenmurray]

Completely agreed. Pete Newell (arguably the best big man's coach ever), was not very big (about 6'2" I believe).



I disagree here. I don't think you need to have played any specific position to be a good big man's coach. You just need to be a good coach, a good teacher, and you need to know how to coach big men.

I don't know if Wojo is or is not suited to being a big man's coach. But nothing specific about having playing PG makes him any more or less suited to coach big men.

Actually, you are right, though I do think point guards in general are in a better position to do the "teaching of positioning related to play development" than are other players - probably the reason so many great coaches are former point guards.

[MChambers]

Hate to repeat the oft mentioned wojo-is-no-big-man-coach, but I think it impacts recruiting of bigs and slows development of those we get. Don't want to wait for the development to come when we may only get another year or two out of Mason. Love the idea of Battier - he seems the type to want to coach someday, although he wasn't a big. Wish we could get Gminiski out of the booth - he was a real center. Wonder what Terry Chile (sp?) is doing these days? Alaa? Maybe Coach K can break his unwillingness to put only ex-players on the bench

I saw Terry Chili here in DC a few years ago, and thanked him for his free throws to beat then #1 Maryland, in 1976 or so.

He's tall, yes. Is that why you think he could be a big man coach? Any other reasons?