MBB: Georgetown 89, Duke 77 Post-Game Thread

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I think it was Coach K's second or third Final Four team. I remember watching them against Clemson at the end of the season (not the very end, I think we always end with UNC) and thinking we are awful, we are not going anywhere, I hope this team does not get bounced in the first round. All I am trying to say is that even in the "glory" days of the Coach K era the team has always had some games like yesterday.

GO DUKE!

[CDu]

Hi,

I think it was Coach K's second or third Final Four team. I remember watching them against Clemson at the end of the season (not the very end, I think we always end with UNC) and thinking we are awful, we are not going anywhere, I hope this team does not get bounced in the first round. All I am trying to say is that even in the "glory" days of the Coach K era the team has always had some games like yesterday.

GO DUKE!

The team is a top-10 or top-20 team. As such, there's no reason that we can't make the Final Four if things play out right. However, there are weaknesses that have shown up repeatedly this year. Luckily, this year in the ACC there aren't too many teams that can punish our weaknesses.

With the team as is, if we get the right bracket, I think the Final Four is a reasonable possibility (though not probability). We just have to avoid teams that play a 4-out, 1-in approach on offense as much as possible, and hope that those teams don't have a great night against us (or that we have a great night against them).

[ncexnyc]

It definitely looks like several board members are experiencing STML. Yes, Georgetown played a great game and they spanked us. I'm sure most people who've made so-called negative posts on this thread realize the Hoyas had a great game. I believe what worries those people is that this isn't, "Just one game in late January", but rather this is the second such game within a short period of time. In both of these games the opposition's FG% was extremely high. I think many can except the perfect storm hitting us once, but twice makes people wonder and rightly so.

[Indoor66]

It definitely looks like several board members are experiencing STML. Yes, Georgetown played a great game and they spanked us. I'm sure most people who've made so-called negative posts on this thread realize the Hoyas had a great game. I believe what worries those people is that this isn't, "Just one game in late January", but rather this is the second such game within a short period of time. In both of these games the opposition's FG% was extremely high. I think many can except the perfect storm hitting us once, but twice makes people wonder and rightly so.

If such a perfect storm is hitting us and our opponents are going to shoot 70% against us, what would you or others propose the coaches and players do about this?

[left_hook_lacey]

I didn't see much indifference or laziness on defense so much as bewilderment. I think Duke was unprepared for Georgetown's offense. You can blame that on having 1.5 days or bad coaching, but this wasn't like NC State.

I agree with you. I don't think there was anything lazy about the wake that Duke played. They always play hard, they were still playing hard even though the game looked out of reach with a minute or two left. It's just not in their nature to be lazy, that's not how they're coached.


Bewilderment is a good word for it. I saw a lot of misplaced energy. Playing hard on defense does not always lead to positive results. Activity does not always lead to positive results. I don't think that Duke was unprepared from a coaching stand point, I think they were just unprepared for Georgetown's length, size and athleticism at almost every position and it surprised them. It's like Mike Tyson used to say, "Everyone has a game plan to win, until they get hit in the nose."

Add in that it was in front of a rowdy crowd, with the commander-in-chief in the seats, and a surprisingly disciplined Georgetown team, and it will be a tough game to win every time.

And people please stop freaking out because Georgetown shot 70+% from the field. I read posters saying "How could we allow that" and "Our defense was awful because we should NEVER allow a team to shoot 70+%, that scares me" etc. etc.

Stop looking at the numbers only and look at the game, Georgetown got a lot of uncontested layups and fast break points, its not like they "shot the lights out" as some have suggested. Poor offensive execution on our end lead to a lot of easy points on their end. Our defense is fine. And let's give Georgetown a little credit for playing good defense that lead to those easy shots. We've played teams that are just as big and athletic as Georgetown this year, but none were as prepared and well-coached as Georgetown was.

[roywhite]

I agree with you. I don't think there was anything lazy about the wake that Duke played. They always play hard, they were still playing hard even though the game looked out of reach with a minute or two left. It's just not in their nature to be lazy, that's not how they're coached.

Bewilderment is a good word for it. I saw a lot of misplaced energy. Playing hard on defense does not always lead to positive results. Activity does not always lead to positive results. I don't think that Duke was unprepared from a coaching stand point, I think they were just unprepared for Georgetown's length, size and athleticism at almost every position and it surprised them. It's like Mike Tyson used to say, "Everyone has a game plan to win, until they get hit in the nose."

Add in that it was in front of a rowdy crowd, with the commander-in-chief in the seats, and a surprisingly disciplined Georgetown team, and it will be a tough game to win every time.

And people please stop freaking out because Georgetown shot 70+% from the field. I read posters saying "How could we allow that" and "Our defense was awful because we should NEVER allow a team to shoot 70+%, that scares me" etc. etc.

Stop looking at the numbers only and look at the game, Georgetown got a lot of uncontested layups and fast break points, its not like they "shot the lights out" as some have suggested. Poor offensive execution on our end lead to a lot of easy points on their end. Our defense is fine. And let's give Georgetown a little credit for playing good defense that lead to those easy shots. We've played teams that are just as big and athletic as Georgetown this year, but none were as prepared and well-coached as Georgetown was.

You had me in agreement, until you maintained that Georgetown did not shoot lights out. I watched the game.

[devildownunder]

They are Duke's weakness. When Duke plays a team with quickness on the perimeter that plays an aggressive defensive style, it's difficult for Duke to get into its offense. If the quick opponent also has an attacking style on offense, that's another serious challenge.

Players don't get a lot quicker, especially during the season, so we'll have to wait for Kyrie Irving and Seth Curry to remedy this deficiency.

For the most part, we have avoided this year the kinds of problems you mention, which were just huge obstacles for us last year. I saw only the last 15 minutes or so of playing time in the G'town game and during that time they, for whatever reason, were able to pressure us on the perimeter very effectively. The tipped or intercepted passes and generally kept us from ever getting into our offense on many possessions. I'm not sure why they were able to do it and no one else has been. Are they that much quicker than anyone else we've faced this year?

[ncexnyc]

If such a perfect storm is hitting us and our opponents are going to shoot 70% against us, what would you or others propose the coaches and players do about this?

Not sure if you're being sincere or sarcastic, but I'll give it a go anyway.

It's time for the staff and players take a good long look in the mirror. The staff needs to reevaluate their preceptions of this team. They need to specifically address where the breakdowns, both offensively and defensively are occurring and why. Once this is done, they can then make the necessary adjustments if at all possible.

As for the players, each and everyone of them needs to think about what their role on this team is supposed to be and ask themselves, "Am I doing what's expected of me?" From where I am sitting, some are trying to do to much and should tone it down, while others need to be more assertive.

I'm just a fan and the team is run by a HOF Coach, but I do know this team has serious issues that need to be addressed if they are to go as far as they possibly can.

[Kfanarmy]

Duke took 16 more shots
Duke shot 84% from the foul line.
Duke got an offensive rebound 43% of the time they missed; while Georgetown got 15%

Things I note; Duke hit 4 of 10 threes in the 1st half and was down by 13; Duke shot 5 of 19 thees in the second half and won the half.

What killed the team: 5 of 17 two-point shooting in the 1st half and 1st half turnovers. Defense didn't perform up to par, but offense inside the arc really hurt the team in the 1st half.

[trinity79]

there's such a thing as consistency. After our showings at NC State and GTown you can't really say we have any. The GTown game really brought back visions of the Villanova game last year.
I hate to say I told you so, and it's never my intention to hate on anybody, but here's what I posted about 7 months ago. This far into the season, I don't really see where I got much wrong:
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07-10-2009, 01:57 AM
trinity79
Hoop Dreams Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 8

What concerns me in all this . . .

-
is that if somebody (or a very small group of somebodies) does not establish himself/themselves at the 5, then we could possibly face a situation where we are "teaming" with big men, but still don't really scare anyone inside. Truth be told, Zoubek has had flashes of brilliance, and I loved that tomahawk dunk that Miles threw down at Wake Forest. But Zoubs is what he is and Miles, Mason, and Kelly are all young and unproven. I hope time will prove me wrong to worry about Mason in this regard.

Don't get me wrong. It'll be fantastic to have true depth at the 4/5 like we have not had recently. I think we'll certainly be stacked at the 3 and 4 spots. But I think we make a mistake to assume that just because we have loads of size that means the 5 spot will magically take care of itself. And I'm betting Coach K is just as concerned about the post as he is about the perimeter.

[millerecu]

About this time over the last couple of years the question "are we peaking too early" has been posed. This is NOT the case this year, lets hope we peak right on cue this year!

[flyingdutchdevil]

About this time over the last couple of years the question "are we peaking too early" has been posed. This is NOT the case this year, lets hope we peak right on cue this year!

Fabulous point! We can only improve, right? This team is good, but it can become much better. K's creativity will come out in the next month - guaranteed!

We've been playing well, if inconsistent, for sometime. I have faith in our coaching staff and players that they will get so much better.

LET'S GO DUKE!!!

[91_92_01_10_15]

Here's a link to audio of Coach K's post-game press conference:

http://hoyahoops.com/2010/01/30/duke...ss-conference/

[gumbomoop]

Very much enjoyed K's analysis. Straightforward, no self-pity, no fake crap. He explained G'town's great game, without saying "Woe is us/me." Indeed, he said, "We're a good team, too, just not today." He noted, without agonizing over, the lousy game v. NCSt, saying that his team had also played quite well lately, v. Clemson and FSU. He took time to comment on, with all sincerity from what I could hear, how good it was for college bball that the Pres and VP had been there.

Now, perhaps 2 days later, he'll rip into his guys in practice, start Jordan Davidson and Steve Johnson on Thurs, never let Z into another game, whatever. I got no clue [observant posters will have noticed this by now]; but I'm pretty sure he'll have a plan, and it will have both logic and passion.

And, in the aftermath of Duke's and UNC's lousy weekend performances, K's matter-of-fact, at times humorous, post-game analysis makes for a telling contrast with ... well, with any coach who adopts the self-pitying, woe is us/me, 3d person fake crap.

[Matches]

We've been playing well, if inconsistent, for sometime. I have faith in our coaching staff and players that they will get so much better.

I guess that's the silver lining of playing poorly - there is room for improvement. We got a lot better after last January; hopefully we will this year too. I'm not sure we have an E-Will ready to step in and be a huge contributor, but I do think the Plumlees in particular still have the ability to step up and assume bigger roles. I don't see this as a FF team absent something strange happening in March, but I'm still hopeful of a nice March run, hopefully Sweet 16 and maybe further.

[duke4life32182]

I think K needs to change the line-up and put different players together in units. That or we need a Freshman to give us a spark like EW did last year. The three freshmen we have haven't impressed yet and its about time they step up their game. Along with the other players we have. K is good about changing things for the final push and I don't think this year is any different. The games we win we look awesome. I can handle loosing to GTech and Wis in the style we did, where we have a chance to win just a few things didn't go our way. When we get blown out of the gym twice in a week though something is going wrong. I'm anxious to see us play Thursday with a chance to avenge a loss earlier in the year. I think Thursday you will see some change. JMO though ya never know.

[CrazieDUMB]

A lot has been made of the 4 out, 1 in approach, and I think that really is the key to our problems. Duke's defense is primarily predicated upon denying the passing lanes, especially to big men inside. While this usually works against undisciplined teams, it really exposes us by leaving lanes to the basket wide open. It seems to me that when teams pass effectively and cut creatively, especially when they know Duke will try to jump the passing lanes, our defense falls apart. Remember that GTown had plenty of time to scout us and prepare their offense.

Additionally, when they're 4 out 1 in, our players get too spaced out. Help is a lot further away, which is devastating when so much of our defense relies on switching and awareness to help those defenders that get beat to the basket.

Solution? Well, I don't really see how things can get better unless we completely change our defense, which just ain't gonna happen. This defense only works when its all out; if we don't try to stay in the lanes and shade inside, then we have the same problems and now they can pass even easier. My best idea is to have a good zone ready. If our primary defense doesn't work, let's switch it up and force the other team to hit jump shots. We have so much size and length, I think it's a real pity we don't hit zone more often (talk about a new topic for DBR).

[greybeard]

This may not have been what you meant, but one thing I've noticed is that we don't do a good job on offense dictating what's going to happen. We too often let the defense decide what is available, and just take what the defense leaves open, rather than try to impose a certain result on the defense and make them react.

Not really, but I think you are onto something here. My point was really two. On offense, you must make the other team guard the rim, and you must be able to score at the rim. If not, not only will your offense suffer, but also your defense. The other point is the obvious: you turn it over and allow the other team easy transition baskets, playing good half court defense will suffer as well if you allow the hole to get deep enough.

But, I think that your perspective with regard to Saturday's game at least was what I had in mind. BTW, I was talking Singler, not Scheyer, in my post. The pulling up short on his shot might have been due to his wrist, which Clark alluded to several times.

I think that this "triple threat" position is a bunch of nonsense. Most 3s and 4s catch and start in a more upright, ready to shoot or move position. For Singler to get in "triple threat position," which is what that lean over thing is all about, he has a long, long way to go, with a lot of moving parts, to get to a shooting position, and you also need a whole lot more time to get moving, then from a more upright position. You wouldn't see Bird or most other triple-threat 3-4s doing such nonsense.

[left_hook_lacey]

You had me in agreement, until you maintained that Georgetown did not shoot lights out. I watched the game.

Well, technically they did, but it wasn't because they were just destroying us over and over in half-court sets, they got a lot of fast break lay ups because of either good D on their end, or poor offense by us. I still maintain that the biggest problem in this game wasn't our defense, but poor offense which too often put us a step behind on D in this game.

[davekay1971]

I think that this "triple threat" position is a bunch of nonsense. Most 3s and 4s catch and start in a more upright, ready to shoot or move position. For Singler to get in "triple threat position," which is what that lean over thing is all about, he has a long, long way to go, with a lot of moving parts, to get to a shooting position, and you also need a whole lot more time to get moving, then from a more upright position. You wouldn't see Bird or most other triple-threat 3-4s doing such nonsense.

Gotta disagree on the triple threat position. It really doesn't involve a lot of leaning over. It's more catching the ball in a crouch with your legs bent and ready to move to support one of three actions - jumping for a shot, pushing force into a pass, or taking a quick first step. Getting in the position is nothing more than a quick move to bend the legs, and catching in the position actually improves the quickness going to the a shot or dribble. If you catch standing more upright, you have to bend your knees then come back up for a shot, whereas in the triple threat position your knees are already bent and all you have to do is come up. Similarly, if you're more upright and want to dribble, you have to bend the legs first before you make your move, as opposed to already being in the position to explode on the first step. The pass is really the only thing where being more upright may help a taller player like Kyle or Mason, since, if they have a smaller defender, being more upright opens up their view and is a more natural position for an overhead pass.

Now, the triple threat is more of a perimeter game position. Certainly you don't use it catching the ball in the low post or with your back to the basket. But if you've got a taller guy like Kyle or Mason operating on the perimeter, and driving or going up for a shot is an option at the time they catch the ball, they're going to have some advantage by catching in the triple-threat position.