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  1. #1
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    Feinstein Blog Post about his relationship with Duke

    "Duke – my relationship with the school, and the slipping standards of the program"
    http://www.feinsteinonthebrink.com/i...84334407880929

    Intereted to hear people's reactions. It ends with yet another call for K to stop coaching Team USA because it's hurting the Duke program.

  2. #2
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    Some of what he says may very well be true. Alleva was probably not a terribly good AD. He may not have been the best choice at the time. Keohane was less interested in sports and more focused on building the academic and financial prestige of the university. She may have made a decision that had less to do with being the best candidate and more to do with appeasing her (and Coach K's) needs. I don't know enough about the facts, but those seem like reasonable possibilities.

    But he's also pretty petty and whiny. Seriously - are you that full of yourself to complain about not being recognized as one of the university's distinguished journalists? Making snide comments about the fact that the school is asking a rich alum for money? ALL schools do that. And he sort of admits making his own bed with the university by publicly calling the head of the university a liar.

    At this point, Feinstein is just a sour individual in general. He complains about everything and wants everything to go back to the way it was 20 years ago. He's annoying to me.

  3. #3
    holy crap that man must live an absolutely miserable life.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    "Duke – my relationship with the school, and the slipping standards of the program"
    http://www.feinsteinonthebrink.com/i...84334407880929

    Interested to hear people's reactions. It ends with yet another call for K to stop coaching Team USA because it's hurting the Duke program.
    Good article. I didn't know most of the details of Feinstein's fight with Duke, although I knew about the Alleva hiring. Heck, I was ticked when they hired Alleva - I wanted the job! And I've always had a dislike for Nan, too - based on her anti-fraternity stance, but that's another story.

    I disagree with John's conclusion that K shouldn't coach the Olympics. It's kept him fresh in both attitude and appearance, he's learned a lot (about the zone and other things) and it keeps him interested and enthusiastic about Duke basketball. How it plays out in the next 3 1/2 years remains to be seen, but with Kyrie Irving coming in next year to be our PG, and the other pieces in place (currently on the team and other recruits coming in), the "standards" have not slipped.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    And I've always had a dislike for Nan, too - based on her anti-fraternity stance, but that's another story.
    Funny, that's why I liked Nan!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    All I know is this quote from Coach K at the end of that article hit me like a ton of bricks:

    “I don’t care about winning my 20 or being in the tournament. We’ve let the standards slip around here. I want this team and this program to play to MY standards, not anyone else’s.”

    Whether or not coaching the US team hinders that concept only Coach K can say for sure. But I agree with Feinstein that it at least bears thinking about because he's spot on correct that the high standards Mike has set over the course of his tenure have slipped in recent years. I can't argue with that, although I guess others here will roast me for saying it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    I disagree with John's conclusion that K shouldn't coach the Olympics. It's kept him fresh in both attitude and appearance, he's learned a lot (about the zone and other things) and it keeps him interested and enthusiastic about Duke basketball. How it plays out in the next 3 1/2 years remains to be seen, but with Kyrie Irving coming in next year to be our PG, and the other pieces in place (currently on the team and other recruits coming in), the "standards" have not slipped.
    How Feinstein would probably respond (from his blog):
    I remember in 1997 when he was still rebuilding after the ’95 disaster when his team lost a close game at Maryland. A couple days later with Carolina in town, Dick Vitale came into the locker room prior to the game and was giving a Vitale pep talk: “You guys’ll be fine,” he said. “You’ll win your 20, you’ll be in the tournament.”

    When Vitale left, Krzyzewski turned to me. (I was there working on my book on the ACC that season). “I don’t care about winning my 20 or being in the tournament. We’ve let the standards slip around here. I want this team and this program to play to MY standards, not anyone else’s.”

    During the next seven years, Duke went to three Final Fours and won a national title. Since then: no trips beyond the sweet sixteen. The standards have slipped. Mike needs to re-think HIS standards again.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    Good article. I didn't know most of the details of Feinstein's fight with Duke, although I knew about the Alleva hiring. Heck, I was ticked when they hired Alleva - I wanted the job! And I've always had a dislike for Nan, too - based on her anti-fraternity stance, but that's another story.

    I disagree with John's conclusion that K shouldn't coach the Olympics. It's kept him fresh in both attitude and appearance, he's learned a lot (about the zone and other things) and it keeps him interested and enthusiastic about Duke basketball. How it plays out in the next 3 1/2 years remains to be seen, but with Kyrie Irving coming in next year to be our PG, and the other pieces in place (currently on the team and other recruits coming in), the "standards" have not slipped.
    One thing about Feinstein is I think he focuses on one aspect of an issue and often fails to consider (or chooses to ignore) other factors. The Coach K Olympics thing is one of them. Yes, it takes time away from his focus on the Duke team. Yes, it could wear him out. But Feinstein ignores the possibility that it may re-energize him instead. He also ignores the possibility that national team exposure may help in recruiting.

    Similarly, Feinstein has ranted against the ACC expansion, with his main argument being "I miss the balanced schedule," but ignoring the possible financial gain from expansion if we can start getting two BCS teams in football.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2007
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    Durham
    The root of the problem is that Duke and Coach K have only their own standard to be held up to. Right now they are having "Dean Smith" years when everyone expects "Coach K" years.

    It's just like when Jordan came back to the NBA - still the best in the NBA, but not quite as good as he himself used to be.

    So in many ways, the better you are over time, the tougher you make it on yourself, at least in the eyes of fans and media-types.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    At this point, Feinstein is just a sour individual in general. He complains about everything and wants everything to go back to the way it was 20 years ago. He's annoying to me.
    The 3 FFs in 7 years and an NC he references were less than 10 years ago, I don't think he's a sentimentalist pining for a return to a simpler more wholesome time. "Honest" opinions are in short supply and despite the self-aggrandizing remarks sprinkled through his editorial the basic point is a worthy topic of discussion and intended the serve the interests of the basketball program and those of Coach K. His treatment of the facts may be biased (and whose isn't?) but who would you rather have--a distinguised alumni who inserts himself into the conversation with presumably good intent or an apathetic fair-weather cheerleader? Apathy propelled the football program to its non-competitive depths. Annoying, yes--and clearly he was wrong about Duke's ability to mount a competitive effort in football--but his opinion is important to the conversation. Who outside the Duke community would really find value in the editorial anyway? It's not as if he's trying to ingratiate himself to the reader and build a wider audience.

  11. #11
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    He also ignores the possibility that national team exposure may help in recruiting.
    But we haven't seen any real evidence of this during his tenure as head coach of USA Basketball. To the contrary, we've consistently missed out on key recruits that we both desperately needed and desperately wanted. No need to trot out the laundry list to prove that point. It's axiomatic.

  12. #12

    Shouldn't that have been...

    "So, I did my, “Duke apologist,” thing and defended Krzyzewski."

    Shouldn't that have been your journalistic integrity thing and told the truth and the facts. Silly me.

    And I'm glad to see that losing to State means Coach K should quit coaching Team USA...but what does he think Roy should do? All joking aside lets face it, teams lose...we've lost 3...currently less than anyone else in the ACC.

    Just a strange article.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    The 3 FFs in 7 years and an NC he references were less than 10 years ago, I don't think he's a sentimentalist pining for a return to a simpler more wholesome time. "Honest" opinions are in short supply and despite the self-aggrandizing remarks sprinkled through his editorial the basic point is a worthy topic of discussion and intended the serve the interests of the basketball program and those of Coach K. His treatment of the facts may be biased (and whose isn't?) but who would you rather have--a distinguised alumni who inserts himself into the conversation with presumably good intent or an apathetic fair-weather cheerleader? Apathy propelled the football program to its non-competitive depths. Annoying, yes--and clearly he was wrong about Duke's ability to mount a competitive effort in football--but his opinion is important to the conversation. Who outside the Duke community would really find value in the editorial anyway? It's not as if he's trying to ingratiate himself to the reader and build a wider audience.
    Sort of thread hijacking here, but part of this is illustration of the luck involved in the tournament, and part of it is illustrating how big a couple of recruiting "misses" can be. Look at the talent we had in 2004-2009. A player or two made the difference in most of those seasons.

    - 2004: if any of the other bigs (Randolph, Thompson, Boateng, etc) stepped up and became the players they were hyped to be coming out of high school. Maybe we have enough depth inside to hold off UConn and ultimately win the title in 2004.
    - 2005: See above. Maybe we have enough size to get to a Final Four in 2005 as well. And if Nelson is healthy, maybe we have enough perimeter offense too.
    - 2006: if Paulus had been the Hurley-type PG (or if Dockery had been a better PG) and if Nelson had been healthy. Perhaps we have enough balance to make it past LSU and get to a Final Four. Heck, if we beat LSU, there's a reasonable chance we win the title that year.
    - 2007: if Paulus had been the Hurley-type PG and we had one more college-ready big guy to complement McRoberts. Maybe we go to another Sweet-16 or elite-8. Maybe we're even a Final Four team if Paulus is more like Hurley and could get in the lane and create offense for others.
    - 2008: if Paulus was more like Hurley and McRoberts had stayed. That team has virtually no holes with Singler complementing McRoberts at the 4/5, Thomas/Zoubek/McClure providing depth, and Nelson, Scheyer, and Henderson providing wing scoring, and Paulus running the show. That's another deep run waiting to happen.
    - 2009: with a senior, Hurley-like Paulus creating off the dribble, maybe we compete with Villanova.

    I don't want this to come across as Paulus-bashing or big man bashing. That's far from my point, and it's not at all fair to them. I was just highlighting some of the expectations (however unfair) that some of those recruits had. It's just meant to illustrate that the margin of error between being a perennial Final Four team and just a perennial tournament team isn't necessarily all that great. In Duke's case, it can just take a key player or two each year reaching or exceeding expectations.

    I think most people are willing to view next year's team as a strong candidate for a Final Four if Curry and/or Irving can step up and the Plumlees, Kelly and Hairston can be big factors at the 4/5. Perhaps if things work out, it starts another great Duke run.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorp4me View Post
    "So, I did my, “Duke apologist,” thing and defended Krzyzewski."

    Shouldn't that have been your journalistic integrity thing and told the truth and the facts. Silly me.

    And I'm glad to see that losing to State means Coach K should quit coaching Team USA...but what does he think Roy should do? All joking aside lets face it, teams lose...we've lost 3...currently less than anyone else in the ACC.

    Just a strange article.
    Feinstein's "Duke apologist" comment was sarcasm. Also, Feinstein did not say the State lose was what prompted him to think that K should quit coaching Team USA.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    But we haven't seen any real evidence of this during his tenure as head coach of USA Basketball. To the contrary, we've consistently missed out on key recruits that we both desperately needed and desperately wanted. No need to trot out the laundry list to prove that point. It's axiomatic.
    Well, we've had two big recruiting misses since Coach K won Olympic gold (Wall and Barnes). In both cases, they went to other elite programs - one who just won a national championship. We've also landed some really big-name prospects (Plumlee, Kelly, Dawkins, Irving). I'd say it remains to be seen whether the Olympic exposure will or will not have a big impact on recruiting.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JG Nothing View Post
    Feinstein's "Duke apologist" comment was sarcasm. Also, Feinstein did not say the State lose was what prompted him to think that K should quit coaching Team USA.
    Two corrections: Feinstein did not say the State loss was what originally prompted him to think K should quit coaching Team USA.

  17. #17
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    Right

    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Well, we've had two big recruiting misses since Coach K won Olympic gold (Wall and Barnes). In both cases, they went to other elite programs - one who just won a national championship. We've also landed some really big-name prospects (Plumlee, Kelly, Dawkins, Irving). I'd say it remains to be seen whether the Olympic exposure will or will not have a big impact on recruiting.
    We've always missed on some recruits. Just see the wonderful posts by Al Featherstone (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24202) and Jim Sumner (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24203) on this topic.

    To say that coaching the Olympic team hurts (or helps) recruiting is purely conjectural. To me, it's also counterintuitive.

    I'm in favor of Coach K coaching the Olympic team, by the way.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Well, we've had two big recruiting misses since Coach K won Olympic gold (Wall and Barnes). In both cases, they went to other elite programs - one who just won a national championship. We've also landed some really big-name prospects (Plumlee, Kelly, Dawkins, Irving). I'd say it remains to be seen whether the Olympic exposure will or will not have a big impact on recruiting.
    I don't think we can consider Wall a big miss. We were not involved until the very end, and even then there were a number of reasons to think we WOULDN'T get him. Pat Patterson is a much bigger miss.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Sort of thread hijacking here, but part of this is illustration of the luck involved in the tournament, and part of it is illustrating how big a couple of recruiting "misses" can be. Look at the talent we had in 2004-2009. A player or two made the difference in most of those seasons.

    - 2004: if any of the other bigs (Randolph, Thompson, Boateng, etc) stepped up and became the players they were hyped to be coming out of high school. Maybe we have enough depth inside to hold off UConn and ultimately win the title in 2004.
    - 2005: See above. Maybe we have enough size to get to a Final Four in 2005 as well. And if Nelson is healthy, maybe we have enough perimeter offense too.
    - 2006: if Paulus had been the Hurley-type PG (or if Dockery had been a better PG) and if Nelson had been healthy. Perhaps we have enough balance to make it past LSU and get to a Final Four. Heck, if we beat LSU, there's a reasonable chance we win the title that year.
    - 2007: if Paulus had been the Hurley-type PG and we had one more college-ready big guy to complement McRoberts. Maybe we go to another Sweet-16 or elite-8. Maybe we're even a Final Four team if Paulus is more like Hurley and could get in the lane and create offense for others.
    - 2008: if Paulus was more like Hurley and McRoberts had stayed. That team has virtually no holes with Singler complementing McRoberts at the 4/5, Thomas/Zoubek/McClure providing depth, and Nelson, Scheyer, and Henderson providing wing scoring, and Paulus running the show. That's another deep run waiting to happen.
    - 2009: with a senior, Hurley-like Paulus creating off the dribble, maybe we compete with Villanova.

    I don't want this to come across as Paulus-bashing or big man bashing. That's far from my point, and it's not at all fair to them. I was just highlighting some of the expectations (however unfair) that some of those recruits had. It's just meant to illustrate that the margin of error between being a perennial Final Four team and just a perennial tournament team isn't necessarily all that great. In Duke's case, it can just take a key player or two each year reaching or exceeding expectations.

    I think most people are willing to view next year's team as a strong candidate for a Final Four if Curry and/or Irving can step up and the Plumlees, Kelly and Hairston can be big factors at the 4/5. Perhaps if things work out, it starts another great Duke run.
    I don't disagree with a thing you've stated in this post, but I don't think it's exactly on topic either, your disclaimer noted. I may be wrong but Feinstein's basic point seems to be that the energy required of Coach K to rise to his own self-proclaimed standards may be compromised by his continued association with USA basketball and he cites a precedent to back up his point. Exhaustion was part of the reason for K's departure in 95 and contributed to his back problem, if the diagnoses I read in the press were accurate. I guess the implicit assertion here is that K may not be able to recognize when he's spread himself too thin which risks on-court results that are sub-standard. But as you say a trip to the FF this year or next, completely undermines Feinstein's argument.

    We'll have to wait and see I guess. I will concede that it's difficult to imagine K's involvement with USA basketball somehow makes him ineffective as a recruiter. With the talent on hand it's pretty incredulous to think he has slipped and as the Plumlees have developed I'm less concerned with misses like Barnes.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    I don't disagree with a thing you've stated in this post, but I don't think it's exactly on topic either, your disclaimer noted. I may be wrong but Feinstein's basic point seems to be that the energy required of Coach K to rise to his own self-proclaimed standards may be compromised by his continued association with USA basketball and he cites a precedent to back up his point. Exhaustion was part of the reason for K's departure in 95 and contributed to his back problem, if the diagnoses I read in the press were accurate. I guess the implicit assertion here is that K may not be able to recognize when he's spread himself too thin and which risks on-court results that are sub-standard. But as you say a trip to the FF this year or next, completely undermines Feinstein's argument.

    We'll have to wait and see I guess. I will concede that it's difficult to imagine K's involvement with USA basketball somehow makes him ineffective as a recruiter. With the talent on hand it's pretty incredulous to think he has slipped and as the Plumlees have developed I'm less concerned with misses like Barnes.
    I fully admit the hijack potential. And yes, Feinstein's argument is that Coach K is wearing himself out and spreading himself too thin. My point is that Feinstein may be misinterpreting the problem or may just be shortsighted. It may be that the problem has not been spreading himself too thin but instead is simply a matter of a couple of players not being quite as amazing as their high school pedigree might have suggested.

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