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  1. #1

    Paying a head football coach

    From the "Cut out" front page article:

    "We understand that Duke cannot possibly offer him as much money as Tennessee can."

    This is simply an excuse to not hire the best, and is completely false.

    Tennessee endowment: $710 million
    Duke endowment: $4.9 BILLION

    Highest head football coach salary: ~$5 million
    Tennessee head football coach salary: $2 million
    Duke head football coach salary: $1.5 million

    So for $3.5 million, Duke could be the highest-paying football program in the nation.

    That is .071 percent of the annual endowment, to hire the very best coach and potentially become a very good program.

    The endowment would go from $4,900,000,000 to $4,896,500,000, a simple rounding error.

    Is $3.5 million an investment worth making to bring in an incredible coach and the money that would come along with that? A no-brainer.

    Saying things like "no way can duke offer as much money as school X" is simply false. For the absurd amount of money put into facilities (which is necessary, no doubt), for much less we could offer someone like Pete Carroll Seahawks-level money ($7 mill) to come to Durham. Why not?

    -----

    This was just an aside; I am completely stoked that Cut is staying in Durham. We should pay the man.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by YourLandlord View Post
    From the "Cut out" front page article:

    "We understand that Duke cannot possibly offer him as much money as Tennessee can."

    This is simply an excuse to not hire the best, and is completely false.

    Tennessee endowment: $710 million
    Duke endowment: $4.9 BILLION

    Highest head football coach salary: ~$5 million
    Tennessee head football coach salary: $2 million
    Duke head football coach salary: $1.5 million

    So for $3.5 million, Duke could be the highest-paying football program in the nation.

    That is .071 percent of the annual endowment, to hire the very best coach and potentially become a very good program.

    The endowment would go from $4,900,000,000 to $4,896,500,000, a simple rounding error.

    Is $3.5 million an investment worth making to bring in an incredible coach and the money that would come along with that? A no-brainer.

    Saying things like "no way can duke offer as much money as school X" is simply false. For the absurd amount of money put into facilities (which is necessary, no doubt), for much less we could offer someone like Pete Carroll Seahawks-level money ($7 mill) to come to Durham. Why not?

    -----

    This was just an aside; I am completely stoked that Cut is staying in Durham. We should pay the man.
    First, let me say that we agree in our excitement that Coach Cut is staying.
    But you grossly misunderstand the way that endowments work. They are not intended as simple repositories of cash. They generate annual cash flow by way of interest yield. Moreover, endowments generally do not go to pay athletic department salaries; rather, they are intended for an institution's core academic pursuits. Athletic salaries are much more contained within an athletic department's separate budget, which generally derives from income from revenue sports (nearly everywhere, this means basketball and football). Added into this are booster donations, something that especially shouldn't be discounted at a place like Tennessee.
    You're right that, at first blush, it seems that Duke can far better afford to pay a football coach $3 million or more than can Tennessee. However, you're really talking apples and oranges here.
    Lastly, we pay Coach K something on the order of $2.2 million a year. There is no way we will ever pay a football coach more than Coach K. Ever. Thus, to pay a new football coach, say, $3.5 million, would actually cost something like $4 million additional: a $2 million increase over Cut's current salary, plus another $2 million or so for K (I theorize that K would still have to be a marked step above the football coach salary-wise...even the prospect of paying him and the football coach the same amount just ain't ever gonna wash in Durham).
    Of course, $4 million is still just a drop in Duke's endowment bucket. But again, your read of the situation is based on misconception.
    Last edited by wilson; 01-15-2010 at 10:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by YourLandlord View Post
    From the "Cut out" front page article:

    "We understand that Duke cannot possibly offer him as much money as Tennessee can."

    This is simply an excuse to not hire the best, and is completely false.

    Tennessee endowment: $710 million
    Duke endowment: $4.9 BILLION

    Highest head football coach salary: ~$5 million
    Tennessee head football coach salary: $2 million
    Duke head football coach salary: $1.5 million

    So for $3.5 million, Duke could be the highest-paying football program in the nation.

    That is .071 percent of the annual endowment, to hire the very best coach and potentially become a very good program.

    The endowment would go from $4,900,000,000 to $4,896,500,000, a simple rounding error.

    Is $3.5 million an investment worth making to bring in an incredible coach and the money that would come along with that? A no-brainer.

    Saying things like "no way can duke offer as much money as school X" is simply false. For the absurd amount of money put into facilities (which is necessary, no doubt), for much less we could offer someone like Pete Carroll Seahawks-level money ($7 mill) to come to Durham. Why not?

    -----

    This was just an aside; I am completely stoked that Cut is staying in Durham. We should pay the man.
    I %100 agree. Lets give cut about 2.5-3.5 million a year and lock him up for 10 years or more. This guy is obviously a winner and has brought Duke from under the basement to a good football team with bowl potential after only a few years. I only see a bright future for Duke football and I haven't been able to say that for a LONG time. He has brought excitement and respect back to the program.....PAY THE MAN!!!
    I am the yellow king

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by YourLandlord View Post
    From the "Cut out" front page article:

    "We understand that Duke cannot possibly offer him as much money as Tennessee can."

    This is simply an excuse to not hire the best, and is completely false.

    Tennessee endowment: $710 million
    Duke endowment: $4.9 BILLION
    You know that's for the university, not the sporting teams, right?

    The revenue for Tennessee athletics dwarfs that for Duke athletics. That's the disparity.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham at heart

    Point of Order

    The Duke Endowment is not some cash extension of Duke University. It is a private foundation that was set up by James B. Duke in order to support a number of institutions including Duke, Davidson, Furman, etc, and other institutions devoted to health care and child welfare, etc.

    Duke University does have its own endowment fund.

    Read more here.
    WWJDD?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sterling, VA
    In addition to all the good points made above, if Duke started dipping into their endowments to throw millions more at coaches, it would just lead to an arms race in that regard. Once others start doing it to it would just turn ugly and a huge waste of $ for everyone involved, money that would be better spent on butter, errr, I mean academics.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    First, let me say that we agree in our excitement that Coach Cut is staying.
    But you grossly misunderstand the way that endowments work. They are not intended as simple repositories of cash. They generate annual cash flow by way of interest yield. Moreover, endowments generally do not go to pay athletic department salaries; rather, they are intended for an institution's core academic pursuits.
    This isn't true. This was true in the past, when endowments simply bought bonds.

    But endowments today actively play stocks and other high-risk investments. Look at endowment growth (and drastic decline) the last few years -- that's not from sitting around collecting interest.

    So, a $3.5 million "investment" in a head football coach, with the potential for a far greater return based on overall increased prominence of the university, is simply another way to increase the overall capital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    You know that's for the university, not the sporting teams, right?

    The revenue for Tennessee athletics dwarfs that for Duke athletics. That's the disparity.
    Cash is fungible. See my above comment. It doesn't matter where it is located -- if having a stud football coach will bring more attention and overall influence to the university, then that is a good investment for a fund that supplies the university's academics to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by MulletMan View Post
    The Duke Endowment is not some cash extension of Duke University. It is a private foundation that was set up by James B. Duke in order to support a number of institutions including Duke, Davidson, Furman, etc, and other institutions devoted to health care and child welfare, etc.

    Duke University does have its own endowment fund.

    Read more here.
    Right, and having an awesome high-profile football team will bring in even more money to that endowment -- it's an investment. The endowment actively invests in much more risky things than hiring a proven football coach.

    As Duke fans, we of anyone should know this, as applications skyrocketed after Duke won back-to-back titles.

    It was "just" basketball, but it brought in a lot more money/prestige to the university as well.

    Just because something is not traditionally done, doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be done.

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