Kiffin to USC

[SoCalDukeFan]

Viewed from the perspective of what this says about the USC athletic department, and particularly AD Mike Garrett, this whole affair sinks to high heaven. USC's basketball program welcomed a radioactive O.J. Mayo with open arms and is now paying the price. Their football program is under a cloud of suspicion for repeated allegations of NCAA violations and their head coach bolted for the NFL just before the athletic department is scheduled to appear before the NCAA Committee on Infractions.

To Garrett this apparently seemed like the perfect opportunity to hire a replacement with his own record of NCAA (and SEC) investigations into recruiting violations, including six secondary violations in one year. Kiffin's recruiting practices paid off by netting Tennessee three freshman who were charged with attempted armed robbery. Without a trace of irony, Garrett's statement announcing Kiffin's hire praised him for having "proven to be one of the finest recruiters anywhere."

I can only hope that this poke in the NCAA's eye emboldens them to come down hard on USC's athletic department. It's pathetic that a school with USC's academic reputation continues to employ Mike Garrett.

My wife is a Trojan and we are football season ticket holders. Here is my take.

First of all Mike Garrett is reported to be a first class jerk. When I asked someone who would replace Carroll his answer was "some poor SOB who has to work for Mike Garrett." He is considered to be arrogant and non-supportive, among other things. The President of USC is Sample and he is retiring this summer after a great run and has really boosted the academic rep of the school. However many many UCS alums seem to care only about football and Sample seems to have let Garrett do whatever he wants with the athletics.

USC tried to get Mike Riley but couldn't. They tried to get alum Jack Del Rio but he could not afford to leave Jacksonville. A squeeky clean coach with a great record was not going to come to USC and work for Garrett. This is a critical time for recruiting and Garrett needed to get a coach in there. With Kiffin he also got Kiffin's father who is a defensive coaching legend and Ogeron who is a recruiting legend. They may also hire Norm Chow to be OC.
So from a coaching perspective they should be in good shape. Since Kiffin is known to be a Pete Carroll type guy recruiting should be fine.

The problem is that Kiffin seems not to be bothered by the rules and there may be some sanctions from the NCAA. There are a couple of things to keep in mind. First of all the NCAA said yesterday that they have closed the investigation, which is very interesting timing. Carroll and Reggie Bush are supposed to be deposed in the court case and now the investigation is closed before they are put under oath. Also the known allegations against the football program involve benefits given from potential agents to family and friends of players. There are no known allegations that any football player got anything to come to USC and the actions actually hurt USC as they would hasten the departure of the players to the pros. It is also hard for me to understand if the coaches are expected to know what is going on with 85 player families and girl friends. USC might have done a great job of keeping potential agents away from Reggie Bush but could not keep them away from his mother. In any case Garrett will have to have his compliance office do a much better job in the future.

Kiffin was certainly not my first second or third choice. But realistically he might have been the best they were going to get. Any time you hire a young coach you run the risk of him going to the pros. A strong compliance office might keep him in check.

SoCal

[arnie]

Mike Leach, IMHO (the H is silent when the Grouse cackles), is a University killer. He will scare the hell out of any AD or University President looking for a football coach.

WRT his handling of young James, he made every mistake in the book. In fact, the only bigger PR debacle I can think of is Perrier mishandling the allegations of benzene in its sparkling water. Moreover, he apparently had so intimidated the training staff that they actually did what he requested, instead of just ignoring it as a rant and hiding Adam Jones in study hall.

With any athlete with these difficulties (attitude and effort), there needs to be lots of communications with the young man about whether he really wants to play football at TTech. And in this case, where his father has a bigger microphone than everyone in Lubbock added together (now that RMK has departed), you make sure the father is also part of the conversation. And the secondary reponse is to support him if he wants to transfer; apparently, it wasn't happening at Texas Tech -- so why not?

Mike Leach's next gig will be as an OC at a weak Div I school or an HC at a small school that is willing to gamble.

sagegrouse
'Benzene was always naturally in Perrier in trace amounts, but the company ended up having a recall and lost at least half its sales in the US.'

I knew my post would generate some scorn and hopefully, we won't need to look for a new coach. But, I suspect Mike Leach will be very successful at his next program. He seems to understand how to build the offense without the big time recruits.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Bleh. This sucks all the way around. I'll be somewhat shocked if Tennessee doesn't score one of Muschamp or Cutcliffe. I think Cutcliffe is more likely because if Muschamp just waits it out, he'll get Texas or UGa (his alma mater) in 2 years (I think UGa may lose patience with Richt. Even though that's really not showing much patience).


I just don't know who else is out there unless they want to snag a pro coordinator. That didn't work out too well for Florida, though. They could hire from within, but Kiffin brought everyone with him.

Here's hoping it's Skip Holtz!!

One thing for sure, Coach Cutcliffe knows the ways of the folk in Tennessee and he knows how they treated a close friend who had been successful for a number of years. I think he is also well aware of the opportunities at Duke without the same sort of pressures that are associated with football powers. Loyalty is very important to him.

I hope the staff individually and collectively continue to want to be a part of what's unfolding at Duke and not be lured away by big money and/or big talk.

The developments over the next few days and weeks will be interesting to follow.

[PDDuke85]

Anxiously awaiting the interview where Coach Cutcliffe looks directly into the camera and says "I'm not going anywhere"

Unlike so many others in Division 1 football, in David I trust.

[roywhite]

Anxiously awaiting the interview where Coach Cutcliffe looks directly into the camera and says "I'm not going anywhere"

Unlike so many others in Division 1 football, in David I trust.

Agreed. Silence is not golden here. I presume Tennessee is working very hard at getting a new HC (I see they named an interim) and that CDC is somewhere on their list of contacts.

Let's hope the falling dominoes don't reach Durham.

[Tim1515]

Hi,

No way Tennessee can be treated any worse...well, they could be treated a bit worse if Coach Cut tells them he has no interest in the position. For you see, this would mean that in some weird way Tennessee has been relegated to some sort of "Bowling Green."

I feel bad for the players too. So, Kiffin can high tail it to USC, but they signed letters of intent to play for the Vols. They can't just go somewhere else to play, they have to sit out a year. For that matter, players at USC got sort of screwed too. They might have wanted to play for Coach Carroll, but now that he is gone have no interest in playing for Kiffin. Great rules you have there NCAA.

I have no love for the Vols, but those kids did get a bit of a raw deal. If Coach Cut does leave and Spurrier decides not to return maybe Philip Fulmer (think that is how it is spelled) will be the Duke coach in some sort of poetic justice. Then again, I wouldn't mind having the Offensive Coordinator form Boise State, now that would be an awesome hire.

GO DUKE!

I don't agree with this. UT going after Kiffen is no different then UK going after Cal. The writing is on the wall with the type of personality he was. They were willing to do anything to win.

He also talked to incoming freshman like a car salesman...much like Cal does. The kids who buy into that shouldn't be all that surprised should they?

[Kewlswim]

I don't agree with this. UT going after Kiffen is no different then UK going after Cal. The writing is on the wall with the type of personality he was. They were willing to do anything to win.

He also talked to incoming freshman like a car salesman...much like Cal does. The kids who buy into that shouldn't be all that surprised should they?

Hi,

I'll take the second part of what I wrote first:

Even if the kids at UT understood that Kiffin was no choirboy it seems to me that once he left they should be able to leave too--without penalty. I feel the NCAA should change its rules because a kid might come to play for a coach and that coach bolts--with no penalty--why should they have to suffer? It has nothing to do with the character of the coach, it has to do with doing the right thing for the student-athlete.

MP1 was lucky enough to have Trent Johnson leave before he set foot as a student on Stanford's campus. Stanford let him go and he came to Duke. He didn't want to play at LSU for Trent Johnson or for Johnny Dawkins at Stanford. Why should he have to play for a coach he didn't want to play for or go to a school he didn't want to attend so at to be with Trent Johnson?

I still think Coach Cut will stay at Duke. However, if UT presents him and his assistants with wheelbarrows full of money perhaps he will leave. In that situation, I also feel kids who came to Duke to play for Coach Cut (particularly those on the offense, like a QB who I think came from California) should also be able to leave without penalty. I don't make the rules and they would have to sit out a year if they transfer to a Div I school.

Now for the first part. Saying that UT is "Bowling-Green" is quite tongue-in-cheek. It is not. It is a powerhouse SEC football school. However, coaches leaving in the way they are now it is somewhat reminiscent of what happens at schools such as Bowling-Green.

GO DUKE!

[pbc2]

To squash the Leach debate, ESPN is reporting that if Chow is hired as OC at USC, then Leach will become OC at UCLA.

[A-Tex Devil]

To squash the Leach debate, ESPN is reporting that if Chow is hired as OC at USC, then Leach will become OC at UCLA.

This makes sense. I think Leach has a hard time being a head coach for a major school again. He is a very very good OC, though.

Muschamp said no. If Cutcliffe says no, too, we are golden.

Other names in the hopper are Calhoun at AF and Patterson (as always).

Apparently Skip Holtz is not yet being considered, but he is for the USF job. Seems weird.

[jafarr1]

I've thought through the whole "if-the-coach-leaves-the-kids-should-be-able-to-leave" question before, and while I agree in principle, the net effect would be that the loss of a coach would result in ugliness.

Say Tennessee's players were now all allowed to leave. Sure, a number would stay, but what if 15 of the 85 scholarship players left? When the recruits who are bailing on the class and the 20 or so graduating seniors get added, the program is suddenly in even more of a rough spot next year. They'll have a smaller-than-usual recruiting class and lose a bunch of experienced players. It's three weeks before signing day, so it would take two or three recruiting classes to repair the damage.

Also, imagine the feeding frenzy that would result as other schools tried to poach UT's players (finding intermediaries to contact the kids, the NCAA trying to regulate contact, etc.) Hell, Kiffin and his staff have already gone after UT's recruiting class. How bad would it get if he could take PLAYERS with him too? Suddenly, it's potentially even more of a package deal if a coach could convince some blue-chip recruits to come with him.

There certainly has to be a better way, but I'm not sure what it is.

[Kewlswim]

I've thought through the whole "if-the-coach-leaves-the-kids-should-be-able-to-leave" question before, and while I agree in principle, the net effect would be that the loss of a coach would result in ugliness.

Say Tennessee's players were now all allowed to leave. Sure, a number would stay, but what if 15 of the 85 scholarship players left? When the recruits who are bailing on the class and the 20 or so graduating seniors get added, the program is suddenly in even more of a rough spot next year. They'll have a smaller-than-usual recruiting class and lose a bunch of experienced players. It's three weeks before signing day, so it would take two or three recruiting classes to repair the damage.

Also, imagine the feeding frenzy that would result as other schools tried to poach UT's players (finding intermediaries to contact the kids, the NCAA trying to regulate contact, etc.) Hell, Kiffin and his staff have already gone after UT's recruiting class. How bad would it get if he could take PLAYERS with him too? Suddenly, it's potentially even more of a package deal if a coach could convince some blue-chip recruits to come with him.

There certainly has to be a better way, but I'm not sure what it is.

However,

If my son came to a school to learn from a certain person and he left, I sure want him to have the chance to follow him or go somewhere else without penalty.

GO DUKE!

[CameronBornAndBred]

This makes sense. I think Leach has a hard time being a head coach for a major school again. He is a very very good OC, though.

Muschamp said no. If Cutcliffe says no, too, we are golden.

Other names in the hopper are Calhoun at AF and Patterson (as always).

Apparently Skip Holtz is not yet being considered, but he is for the USF job. Seems weird.

Haven't seen Muschamp saying no yet. This is from ESPN.

Tennessee is prepared to offer some serious cash, potentially more than $3 million per year.

Muschamp has made it known that he will certainly listen for that kind of money. He’s making close to $1 million right now with the Longhorns.

It’s going to take a sweet deal to pry Muschamp away from Texas. But if Hamilton goes about it the right way, moves in quickly and makes it known that Muschamp is unequivocally his man, then the Vols will have a chance.

If Muschamp elects to stay at Texas, then former Tennessee assistant and current Duke coach David Cutcliffe may end up being the guy. At this point, it looks like Hamilton is interested in talking with Cutcliffe.

Former Tennessee star quarterback Peyton Manning would be a strong advocate for Cutcliffe.

Others to watch include Air Force’s Troy Calhoun, Ole Miss’ Houston Nutt, Oklahoma State’s Mike Gundy and Connecticut’s Randy Edsall.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/po...ly-on-muschamp

[BD80]

Anyone else bothered by team Kiffen calling the incoming recruits who were set to start classes today (starting a semester early so they can participate in spring practice) and told them NOT to go to class? So much for STUDENT-athletes.

Yes, it is more difficult to transfer once you have started classes, but once Kiffen et al decided to leave, they were interfering with another school's recruits! They also had a duty not to interfere with UT's interests.

I think that would be a fun case to prosecute. I imagine there might be a UT alum or two willing to pay just to make Kiffen miserable. I would avoid seeking monetary damages (discovery would be all too revealing), but would seek an order restraining Kiffin from contacting recruits he contacted while at UT. Probably wouldn't win, but it wuld be lots of fun.

If Kiffen thought using the UT coeds as hostesses was a perq, imagine what he thinks of using the USC song girls!

[texas]

muschamp and mack were at the AFCA in orlando. there are multiple rumors/stories/blogs claiming he has no interest in the TN job but we're still waiting for the official announcement. IMO he's staying at texas.

[formerdukeathlete]

Espn reports tenn is in contact with fulmer to become AD.

One of the reasons to recruit serious students - interest / decision to choose duke may transcend coaching changes.

If cut goes, we may do quite well in finding a new coach.

Espn pushing cut as the top prospective hire.

[Stray Gator]

Anyone else bothered by team Kiffen calling the incoming recruits who were set to start classes today (starting a semester early so they can participate in spring practice) and told them NOT to go to class? So much for STUDENT-athletes.

Yes, it is more difficult to transfer once you have started classes, but once Kiffen et al decided to leave, they were interfering with another school's recruits! They also had a duty not to interfere with UT's interests.

I think that would be a fun case to prosecute. I imagine there might be a UT alum or two willing to pay just to make Kiffen miserable. I would avoid seeking monetary damages (discovery would be all too revealing), but would seek an order restraining Kiffin from contacting recruits he contacted while at UT. Probably wouldn't win, but it wuld be lots of fun.

If Kiffen thought using the UT coeds as hostesses was a perq, imagine what he thinks of using the USC song girls!

Lane Kiffin and Ed Orgeron don't care one whit about complying with rules, or honoring commitments, or fulfilling duties. Monte used to have some integrity, but he's let his own worthless spawn lure him over to the dark side. Everywhere Lane Kiffin has been, he's shown utter disdain for the truth, or for the interests of anyone other than himself. His last two employers and their fans learned the hard way that this guy is a shameless, arrogant, self-serving jerk. I can hardly wait to see how things work out for USCw...and I'm guessing the NCAA will be watching with interest as well.

[Vincetaylor]

This is a scary situation for Duke football. Wilbon, Forde, and others are pushing Cut. If they are really looking to bring in Fulmer as AD, Cut would be a logical pick as coach. Let's keep our fingers crossed. This would be terrible news.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Lane Kiffin and Ed Orgeron don't care one whit about complying with rules, or honoring commitments, or fulfilling duties. Monte used to have some integrity, but he's let his own worthless spawn lure him over to the dark side. Everywhere Lane Kiffin has been, he's shown utter disdain for the truth, or for the interests of anyone other than himself. His last two employers and their fans learned the hard way that this guy is a shameless, arrogant, self-serving jerk. I can hardly wait to see how things work out for USCw...and I'm guessing the NCAA will be watching with interest as well.

His last two employers included Al Davis who doesn't have a great rep as an employer. Davis also fired him. If anyone can be called a shameless, arrogant and self-serving jerk it is probably Davis.

Kiffen and Ogeron seemed to have violated two recruiting rules at UT. They used a fog machine and a simulated press conference. These seem more stupid than serious to me. Violating SEC rules by criticizing the refs may be breaking a rule but I doubt if it bothers anyone.

As for disdain for the truth, that is a problem for many coaches. The coach UTenn hires will probably break a commitment to do so.

It is interesting that UCLA took a chance who Rick Neuheisel, whose rep is probably worse than Kiffen's. So far he has avoided major problems. The recruiting wars between these two should interesting.

As to Kiffen leaving USC, where will he go? I think he needs to be pretty spectacular to get NFC interest after his Raiders stint and I don't see him going to another college job unless he bombs out at USC. Like Neuheisel I think he knows that he needs to avoid NCAA sanctions. I do think USC needs a strong compliance office to keep him on a short leash.

His former players seem to like him and the UTenn people seemed to have liked him while he was there.

I would have preferred lots of other coaches but realistically I don't they would have taken the job. Kiffen is the first coach I can think of who is leaving a real good job to come to USC under Garrett. Carroll was unemployed, Hackett was an NFL assistant, Bibby?, Floyd? O"Neill what were they doing.

If you don't like the hire, whom would you have preferred? What were the chances he would have taken the job?

SoCal

[Stray Gator]

His last two employers included Al Davis who doesn't have a great rep as an employer. Davis also fired him. If anyone can be called a shameless, arrogant and self-serving jerk it is probably Davis.

Kiffen and Ogeron seemed to have violated two recruiting rules at UT. They used a fog machine and a simulated press conference. These seem more stupid than serious to me. Violating SEC rules by criticizing the refs may be breaking a rule but I doubt if it bothers anyone.

As for disdain for the truth, that is a problem for many coaches. The coach UTenn hires will probably break a commitment to do so.

It is interesting that UCLA took a chance who Rick Neuheisel, whose rep is probably worse than Kiffen's. So far he has avoided major problems. The recruiting wars between these two should interesting.

As to Kiffen leaving USC, where will he go? I think he needs to be pretty spectacular to get NFC interest after his Raiders stint and I don't see him going to another college job unless he bombs out at USC. Like Neuheisel I think he knows that he needs to avoid NCAA sanctions. I do think USC needs a strong compliance office to keep him on a short leash.

His former players seem to like him and the UTenn people seemed to have liked him while he was there.

I would have preferred lots of other coaches but realistically I don't they would have taken the job. Kiffen is the first coach I can think of who is leaving a real good job to come to USC under Garrett. Carroll was unemployed, Hackett was an NFL assistant, Bibby?, Floyd? O"Neill what were they doing.

If you don't like the hire, whom would you have preferred? What were the chances he would have taken the job?

SoCal

Are you serious? Tennessee has self-reported six violations of NCAA recruiting regulations by Kiffin, and the NCAA is currently investigating the propriety of Tennessee's use of "recruiting hostesses" under his watch. He has also been formally reprimanded by the SEC twice. All this in just 14 months.

Tennessee fans made excuses for Lane Kiffin, too. For Southern Cal fans, it's just a matter of time...

[SoCalDukeFan]

Are you serious? Tennessee has self-reported six violations of NCAA recruiting regulations by Kiffin, and the NCAA is currently investigating the propriety of Tennessee's use of "recruiting hostesses" under his watch. He has also been formally reprimanded by the SEC twice. All this in just 14 months.

Tennessee fans made excuses for Lane Kiffin, too. For Southern Cal fans, it's just a matter of time...

I had forgotten about the Orange Pride. That is potentially serious. Of course they have been around for years.

The 6 violations to me are very minor and are considered by the NCAA as secondary and unintentional. They do show more immaturity than cheating. Mentioning a recruit by name on Twitter for example. A strong compliance officer should be able to stop them. I think that the SEC reprimands were for mistakenly calling Urban Meyer a cheater and for being critical of the refs. To me this is like calling an immature jay walker a hardened criminal.

Of course, I would not hire an immature jay walker as my head coach unless I had very little choice.

SoCal