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  1. #141
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    Speaking of which... I bet one of the twists this season is that the LAX timeline is the timeline where the bomb did NOT explode and vice versa.
    Ooooh-- GOOD one!

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by JG Nothing View Post
    To follow up on weezie's comment about the length of this thread, can we have a separate thread for each episode?
    Yes, starting this week we will have a new thread for each week's episode. Pruning all the comments out of this thread does not make sense but that is how we will work it going forward.

    --Jason "so let it be written, so let it be done" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post

    --Jason "so let it be written, so let it be done" Evans
    Yes, Pharaoh, whatever you say!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    https://ecogreen.greentechaffiliate.com

  4. #144
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    Also, it was important so that the producers could confuse everyone in the offseason by saying, "Yeah, Elizabeth Mitchell will be back for the final season." Will she live, will she die? Will she be in flashbacks?

  5. #145
    Ok, the flip-flopped timelines really have me baffled. I'm having trouble conceptualizing this theory.

    So...if the LAX timeline was based on the bomb NOT exploding, how could Jack and the rest be (seemingly) strangers on the flight to LAX shown in the premiere?

    I'm so confused. But I love it.

    I love it long time.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter the Lab View Post
    Ok, the flip-flopped timelines really have me baffled. I'm having trouble conceptualizing this theory.

    So...if the LAX timeline was based on the bomb NOT exploding, how could Jack and the rest be (seemingly) strangers on the flight to LAX shown in the premiere?

    I'm so confused. But I love it.

    I love it long time.
    It goes back to the premise that Jack had that setting the bomb off would prevent the magnetic anomaly from ever being encased in concrete, which would prevent Desmond from having to press that button, which would prevent him from ever missing the button and letting the plane crash.

    But what if the nuke going off actually WAS "the incident?" What if setting it off didn't destroy the island? What if all that nuclear energy actually contributed to the anomaly (making it worse) and that setting off the bomb actually is what necessitated someone sitting and pressing the button... which as we know, eventually Desmond failed to do and that caused the plane to crash.

  7. #147
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeUsul View Post
    It goes back to the premise that Jack had that setting the bomb off would prevent the magnetic anomaly from ever being encased in concrete, which would prevent Desmond from having to press that button, which would prevent him from ever missing the button and letting the plane crash.

    But what if the nuke going off actually WAS "the incident?" What if setting it off didn't destroy the island? What if all that nuclear energy actually contributed to the anomaly (making it worse) and that setting off the bomb actually is what necessitated someone sitting and pressing the button... which as we know, eventually Desmond failed to do and that caused the plane to crash.
    As a veteran of 30+ years of Star Trek, and thereby considering myself somewhat an expert on fictional and gratuitous time travel paradoxes , I've got to hand it to you guys for coming up with a scenario that completely cooked my noodle.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's wrong, BUT I absolutely cannot think of any "proof" that doesn't have the potential to wiggle away and still have this come out to be true.

    The best I can come up with is the following. First, we have two realities: 1) Still Lost and 2) LAX. Everyone assumes that LAX = Jack-blows-hatch, and that Still Lost is Desmond-blows-hatch. This theory is that it's the other way around.

    However, for LAX to be the reality where Desmond blows the hatch, he has to fail to hit the button in the same reality AND at the exact time that he is chatting with Jack on 815. Or, someone ELSE has to fail to hit the button at the exact same time.

    I wouldn't put it past Lost for this to be true somehow-- one of them could be the smoke, for example-- but personally I think that's a Paradox Too Far, even for Lost.

    But I wouldn't want to bet my house on it.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    As a veteran of 30+ years of Star Trek, and thereby considering myself somewhat an expert on fictional and gratuitous time travel paradoxes , I've got to hand it to you guys for coming up with a scenario that completely cooked my noodle.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's wrong, BUT I absolutely cannot think of any "proof" that doesn't have the potential to wiggle away and still have this come out to be true.

    The best I can come up with is the following. First, we have two realities: 1) Still Lost and 2) LAX. Everyone assumes that LAX = Jack-blows-hatch, and that Still Lost is Desmond-blows-hatch. This theory is that it's the other way around.

    However, for LAX to be the reality where Desmond blows the hatch, he has to fail to hit the button in the same reality AND at the exact time that he is chatting with Jack on 815. Or, someone ELSE has to fail to hit the button at the exact same time.

    I wouldn't put it past Lost for this to be true somehow-- one of them could be the smoke, for example-- but personally I think that's a Paradox Too Far, even for Lost.

    But I wouldn't want to bet my house on it.
    I like it.
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    As a veteran of 30+ years of Star Trek, and thereby considering myself somewhat an expert on fictional and gratuitous time travel paradoxes , I've got to hand it to you guys for coming up with a scenario that completely cooked my noodle.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it's wrong, BUT I absolutely cannot think of any "proof" that doesn't have the potential to wiggle away and still have this come out to be true.

    The best I can come up with is the following. First, we have two realities: 1) Still Lost and 2) LAX. Everyone assumes that LAX = Jack-blows-hatch, and that Still Lost is Desmond-blows-hatch. This theory is that it's the other way around.

    However, for LAX to be the reality where Desmond blows the hatch, he has to fail to hit the button in the same reality AND at the exact time that he is chatting with Jack on 815. Or, someone ELSE has to fail to hit the button at the exact same time.

    I wouldn't put it past Lost for this to be true somehow-- one of them could be the smoke, for example-- but personally I think that's a Paradox Too Far, even for Lost.

    But I wouldn't want to bet my house on it.
    I think you misunderstand.

    There is one reality where Desmond is on the ground not pushing the button which causes the plane to crash. There is another reality where Desmond is on the plane chatting with Jack (we think). Of course he cannot be in both places at the same time.

    However, the question is -- what caused each reality? Is the Desmond not pushing the button reality a product of the bomb going off or a product of the bomb never being there in the first place? That is what we do not know even though we are sorta being led to believe that Desmond on the plane (and the sunken Island) are a product of the bomb going off.

    Worth noting that we are not even sure that Desmond was on the plane. Recall that he has one brief conversation with Jack and then he all but disappears. Jack even asks where he is and no one seems to know. It almost appears that no one but Jack knows he is there. Perhaps the Desmond on the plane is not the real Desmond... if that makes sense.

    --Jason "I like the idea that the bomb created the hatch and no bomb would mean no island" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    --Jason "I like the idea that the bomb created the hatch and no bomb would mean no island" Evans
    Just so I'm tracking correctly, the 'bomb created the hatch' part is what Miles proposed at the end of last season, and has been the common understanding of what would probably happen during the off-season right?

    And the 'no island' part is caused by the bomb not going off then? So how does the bomb not going off cause the island to sink... and how does that reality come to be in the first place - the result of some paradox?

  11. #151
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I think you misunderstand.
    Yeah, I guess my noodle is more cooked than I realized.

    I definitely screwed up the case I was trying to make. Rather than explicate it, let me see if I understand the theory.

    Timeline 1 = Jack blows bomb + Desmond blows hatch = TempleNLosties
    Timeline 2 = Jack doesn't blow bomb + Island sinks = LAX

    Have I got it now?

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    Yeah, I guess my noodle is more cooked than I realized.

    I definitely screwed up the case I was trying to make. Rather than explicate it, let me see if I understand the theory.

    Timeline 1 = Jack blows bomb + Desmond blows hatch = TempleNLosties
    Timeline 2 = Jack doesn't blow bomb + Island sinks = LAX

    Have I got it now?
    Yup, that is what some folks are guessing.

    Note that Jack blows bomb and Jack does not blow bomb are somewhat interchangeable. That is at least part of the mystery of what is going on right now.

    Interesting to note that if Jack goes to LAX instead of to the Island then he cannot travel back in time and blow up the bomb. So, if Jack blowing the bomb creates the hatch and leads to Desmond not pushing the button then we actually solve one of the fundamental paradoxes of Jack trying to change history.

    Does that make sense?

    As for how/why the Island sinks underwater if not from the bomb blast, that is impossible for any of us to say. I am not sure the LAX timeline will ever address what happened to the island. It might, but I would not be surprised if they simply said, "it sank" and leave it at that.

    --Jason "then again, the island has been around for a looong time, something must cause it to sink" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

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