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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Indianapolis
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverBlowingBubbles View Post
    I took the chains to be a metaphor. Richard worked for Jacob.
    I took the chains as literal... as in Richard was chained up in the back holding room of the Blackrock where Sawyer killed Locke's dad.
    - Pacer, Egr. '98

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    l'll have much more later but off the top of my head...

    ...who are the "good guys?" The story seems to be setting up Flocke/black man/monster as the bad guy and the Temple Others/Richard/Illiana as the good guys. Ummmm, if that is the case our "good guys" sure seem eager to strongarm people, shoot to kill for no reason, and kidnap folks without any explanation. I am not sure who to root for in this little war over the island.

    Also, the reason Desmond is on the plane is that he is not trapped on the island because there is no island upon which to get trapped. His future changes as much as anyone's as a result. I think we have to wonder if Penny exists in this timeline because the sunk island would have probably taken the Widmore clan down with it. Same with Daniel and Ben.

    More later... gotta run.

    --Jason "is it possible that Flocke is the good guy?" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  3. #83
    I'd have to go back and look, but I believe Widmore got booted off the island before the bomb went off, which is when the island sunk. So, Penny is probably there, not sure about Daniel Faraday.

    I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    I'd have to go back and look, but I believe Widmore got booted off the island before the bomb went off, which is when the island sunk. So, Penny is probably there, not sure about Daniel Faraday.

    I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.
    I was thinking the same thing about the timeline of booting and detonating the bomb. However, Widmore spots Kate and Jack in 1977. Ben has Widmore exiled in 1992.

  5. #85
    Flocke "I'm sorry you had to see me like that" That line was priceless!

    There's a whole lot to chew on in this 2hr episode. I have no idea where to begin.

    Here's a question, did Desmond land with the plane? Did Jack recognize him from running the stairs or from some island flashback?
    It was really good to see Charlie and Boone.
    I can't think of a question about how the nuke moved the group from the 70s to present day, but there is something unresolved here right?
    Does Flocke/man in black = Smokey, or did he just conjure it? I need to rewatch that episode where Ben meets Smokey in the temple.
    I'm guessing that everyone else saw the DHARMA-brand shark in the CGI underwater journey?
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Watching carolina Go To HELL!
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    I'm guessing that everyone else saw the DHARMA-brand shark in the CGI underwater journey?
    No, I missed that. Will have to rewatch it.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  7. #87
    What was the book found in the skeleton-French guy's backpack?
    "Something in my vicinity is Carolina blue and this offends me." - HPR

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Penny never really fits in the timeline. I'm guessing she is older than 27 in 2004, but Widmore is on the island in 1977, so I think the best theory is that he had an "off island" family and Penny would still exist.


    The book in the tunnel was the French version of Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling - a philosophical study of whether obeying God supercedes human ethics/morality (Abraham's sacrifice of Isasc).


    Kind of an overwhelming episode, definitely a firehose of new info and a lot to reflect on, but very well done as usual.

    I wonder if the entire season is going to show the alternate timeline of what would have happened if 815 hadn't crashed, with the end being that each of the Losties has a choice of their crash life vs non-crash life - bad Locke said something along the lines of "Locke was the only one who wanted to be here". Just conjecture...

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in the dirty Jerz
    I really thought they should have waited three days for Sayid to be resurrected as Jacob.

    Also, I'm going to be very upset if they ascribe this all to the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
    -- DukeUsul

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Several thoughts.

    --- So I agree that Sayid = Jacob now. I wonder if he'll be coy about it for a while like fake Locke was.

    --- I am not sure Desmond was on the plane. OR... OR... he disappeared from the plane like the coffin did (which is what I think happened to the coffin). Remember the second time they went to the island -- some people disappeared from the plane and the rest landed on the runway in the present day.

    --- I have one major fear about where the no-crash alternate timeline is going. I fear it's going to show that they all have crappy lives (the way fake Locke described to Ben) and that coming to the island was a GOOD thing. The fact the alternate reality has the plane landing safely may lead to bad things for all of those folks. The timelines have to converge though, or I'll be miffed.

    --- How do Cindy and the kids not jump through time, etc. too? Are they protected by being in temple? I think this is more a minor continuity thing than anything else, and will be impressed if we get an explanation.

    --- Things different about alternate reality flight:
    1. Cindy gives Jack one bottle instead of 2.
    2. Hurley is lucky/happy
    3. Desmond on the plane
    4. No Shannon
    5. Anything else? (other than the way the actors looked?)


    Edited to say -- Oh yeah!! Does the gang meet Juliet in alternate reality land?
    Last edited by A-Tex Devil; 02-03-2010 at 11:07 AM.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by A-Tex Devil View Post
    --- Things different about alternate reality flight:
    1. Cindy gives Jack one bottle instead of 2.
    2. Hurley is lucky/happy
    3. Desmond on the plane
    4. No Shannon
    5. Anything else? (other than the way the actors looked?)
    Originally Rose was the nervous one when they hit tubulence and Jack was the comforting one. This episode their roles were reversed.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Northwest NC
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    I'd have to go back and look, but I believe Widmore got booted off the island before the bomb went off, which is when the island sunk.
    I'm confused - So what year are you saying it is when the island is sunk? 1977 when Juliet detonates the bomb?
    "The future ain't what it used to be."

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by DUKIECB View Post
    I'm confused - So what year are you saying it is when the island is sunk? 1977 when Juliet detonates the bomb?
    How do we know for sure when it sank, rather then only that when the 813 passengers land, it's underwater?
    Last edited by GDT; 02-03-2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: Clarification, perhaps some people believe

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    Flocke "I'm sorry you had to see me like that" That line was priceless!
    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    Does Flocke/man in black = Smokey, or did he just conjure it? I need to rewatch that episode where Ben meets Smokey in the temple.
    I think your priceless line answers that question. "See me like that" means see me in my monster/black smoke form. The black smoke is FLocke. In the Temple scene with Ben, the black smoke takes the form of Ben's dead daughter and forces him to obey FLocke, pretty crafty smoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    Here's a question, did Desmond land with the plane? Did Jack recognize him from running the stairs or from some island flashback?
    I am not sure what we are supposed to think about this. After all, as soon as Desmond says "Brotha" in the hatch, Jack recognizes it is the same guy he met running the stairs all those years ago. This time, on the plane, Des says "Brutha" and Jack seems more puzzled. Jack and others Lostaways on the plane seem to also have vague notions that they know each other too. I am sure this will be fleshed out quite a bit in coming episodes. It will be interesting if they maintain separate realities for the entire season. It could give us two climaxes, which would be kidna cool.

    By the way, anyone else notice that this was the first episode ever where we did not have any flashbacks or flashforwards, all we got were flashes from one reality to another.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    It was really good to see Charlie and Boone.
    I am very intrigued at the notion that the destruction of the Island has resulted in Shannon leading a different life and not coming back on the plane with Boone. Similarly, it has led to Desmond being on the plane and led to Hurley being lucky, not cursed. This is something really intriguing that I bet they will explore. There is no way they threw out the "I'm the luckiest man on Earth," line from Hurley only to never explain it.

    Also worth noting, Cindy (the flight attendant) gave Jack 2 bottles of vodka on the original Oceanic 815 flight. This time, she only gives him one.

    For a moment, I thought that maybe the destruction of the Island would lead to Locke having the use of his legs, but it was not to be. That too would have been a very interesting change.

    Regardless, there are small and big things that are different in this timeline as a result of the Island not existing anymore. I am confident the show will not gloss that over and we will get some significant explanation/resolution to this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    I can't think of a question about how the nuke moved the group from the 70s to present day, but there is something unresolved here right?
    This really bothered my wife. She was bothered that the bomb goes off and sends them back to the future but the future it sends them to is one where the bomb never went off (we know this because we are at the site of the imploded Swan hatch). My only explanation is that they were sent back to their future, not to an alternate future. Essentially, even though they changed a timeline, they did not change the timeline they are living. Does that make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by HaveFunExpectToWin View Post
    I'm guessing that everyone else saw the DHARMA-brand shark in the CGI underwater journey?
    I got a giggle out of the underwater shots. We saw Dharmaville including the swingset that Ben and Annie sat upon and we saw the shark (it was bad CGI). Long live Tawaret's foot!!

    --Jason "hmmmm, wait a sec. I need to look into some of this alternate timeline stuff" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    Lostpedia has a page describing the differences in the two realities. They are referring to this as a Flashsideways. That is not a true name because the events on the Island (with Flocke and the such) are 3 years in the future from the original Oceanic 815 flight.

    Anyway, among the differences they note that we have not yet pointed out--
    • Kate is accused of murdering her stepfather's assistant, not murdering her stepfather.
    • Hurley is well-known and the spokesman for Mr. Cluck.
    • Locke's bag of knives and Jack's father's coffin have been lost even though in the original reality they were both on the plane.


    --Jason "it is sooooo good to have Lost back!!" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by DUKIECB View Post
    I'm confused - So what year are you saying it is when the island is sunk? 1977 when Juliet detonates the bomb?
    I think the idea is that the bomb went off and started another timeline. It obliterated the island (i.e. sunk it).

    But -- and I am liberally stealing this from another summary I saw -- "the generation of alternate timelines makes logical sense, because there has to be an existing version of these people who set off Jughead. Otherwise, the paradox is irresolvable."

    So, they set off Jughead, creating a new timeline where 815 doesn't crash, but all the people who weren't supposed to be in 1977 get miracled back to where they are supposed to be to keep the main timeline going. If they die in 1977, and the island sinks, they are never brought to the island in 2004 and again in 2007 to destroy the island. It's a strained parallel, but they've become human versions of Locke's compass.

    My head hurts.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of sports teams that disappoint in the playoffs
    A couple more notes on the alternate timeline--

    Does Sun secretly speak English or not? Are we supposed to think that she is happy in her life with Jin in this timeline and has no plans to leave him? Does anyone recall him having a huge stack of bills in the original timeline?

    Here's a mind-bender for ya... what if Claire is not pregnant?!?! We saw a quick flash of her in the taxi with Kate but it was not clear if Claire was preggers or not. Aaron might not exist in the new timeline.

    Conspicuous in their absence from the Oceanic flight -- Michael and Walt. I know that Walt would be a tough person to place on the plane because he has aged (though you could probably super-impose/CGI a younger version of him into the background without too much difficulty), but why no Michael? Are there any other prominent characters who were missing in the alt future? Where are Paolo and whatshername?

    -Jason "too much fun!!" Evans
    Don't ask me why, but my mother is making me Tweet. Says it will be good for my career. So, follow my ramblings, mostly on the film industry, @TVFilmTalk

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham-- 2 miles from Cameron, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    I don't think FLocke is good. There's too much sinister in his eyes. Flocke/Man in Black and Jacob/Sayid are about to have an epic battle for the island.
    Agreed. There isn't even a remote chance that False Locke / Flocke / Smokey / Esau is good. Yeah, I caught that sinister look when he said "I want to go home," that look is pure evil. I didn't know he had that look in his repertoire.

    Okay, let's suppose Flocke is bad and Jacob is good. If we filter that through season one, it makes a lot of sense. Why were the "Others," who work for Jacob, making lists of "good ones" and kidnapping those? To protect them from Flocke.

    Smokey killed Eko after probing his mind. Was Eko good or not? I'd argue he was good-- he had done a lot of evil over the years, but became a man with big regrets. When he killed the kidnapping Others in what he thought was self-defense, he felt big-time remorse.

    There's some things that don't fully dovetail with this theory, like Smokey killing Keamy, but there could be other explanations.

    Anyhow, that's one thought-stream of mine.

    Also, an important Lost island safety tip: do not smirk at Smokey when hiding behind your emergency black powder circle. It makes Smokey angry. You will not like Smokey when he's angry.
    Last edited by alteran; 02-03-2010 at 12:35 PM. Reason: missed that OP identified same look / changed Esau to Flocke

  19. #99
    I'm definitely excited about the show but have mixed feelings about the dual timelines. I thing it will introduce more questions that answers. The bomb going off should not affect most of the passengers on the plane. Jack's father would still go to see Claire...Kate would still be on the run... Charley still trying to get the band back together...Sawyer would still seek revenge...etc.. So how and why are Hurley on the plane? If the island is gone the radio transmission never happened and he never learns about the numbers? He has no reason to go to OZ to learn about the curses numbers. Also were are the rest of the Tallies? Strange that Sawyer is in the back this time around.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fayetteville, NC

    The horror, the horror

    What's up with the rip-off of "Apocalypse Now?"

    I wouldn't make to much of Shannon, Michael, and Walt not being around. The folks that portray these characters were probably busy with their careers.

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