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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    You guys crowing about Dre's minutes are ridiculous and disturbingly unobservant. Dre has played significant minutes ALL SEASON and K literally can't take away his minutes since we only have 4 TOTAL scholarship guards.

    Please Please Please people... think about it.
    Who's the fourth guard? We've got a fourth guard? Do you mean Singler? He's not a guard in my book. Great, versatile player, but not a guard.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Who's the fourth guard? We've got a fourth guard? Do you mean Singler? He's not a guard in my book. Great, versatile player, but not a guard.
    The fourth scholarship guard is walk-on Jordan Davidson, who got a scholarship this year. At least that's the way I read it. Four total scholarship guards, with three who actually play. If the implication was that Singler is a guard, then I agree with you.

  3. #23
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    No doubt he's been going through a whole lot mentally lately, which always has an effect on my physical health.
    Now that's empathy.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    You guys crowing about Dre's minutes are ridiculous and disturbingly unobservant. Dre has played significant minutes ALL SEASON and K literally can't take away his minutes since we only have 4 TOTAL scholarship guards.

    Please Please Please people... think about it.
    Take it easy, man. You don't know any better than anyone else. And in fairness, it would actually be entirely possible for K to play Jon and Nolan 37-38 mins per game and cut Andre down to 5. Furthermore, Elliot Williams' minutes log from last season follows almost the exact same pattern (14mpg coming into ACC play, 4.2mpg in the next 5 games).

    For the record, I have complete confidence that this is related to a combination of personal factors for Andre (exams, physical and mental health, etc.) and not a big deal at all. I just have a problem with putdowns like that when you really don't know either way.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    You guys crowing about Dre's minutes are ridiculous and disturbingly unobservant. Dre has played significant minutes ALL SEASON and K literally can't take away his minutes since we only have 4 TOTAL scholarship guards.

    Please Please Please people... think about it.
    While I agree that it's way too early to be concerned about Dawkins's minutes, I think you're going too far here. You fail to discuss the actual reason for the thread - that Dawkins has played less than 10 minutes in three of the last four games, with the only other game in that span being a 50-point blowout. So your second sentence is actually false: Dawkins has played significant minutes in all but three games, with those three games coming very recently.

    Further, the second part of your second sentence (the statement that Coach K can't take away Dawkins's minutes) is also incorrect. He very much could decide to just keep playing Scheyer, Smith, and Singler for 38 minutes per game and leave Dawkins at 5-6 minutes per game. I highly doubt Coach K will actually do that, but aside from fouls or injury (let's hope not) there's no reason he couldn't do that.

    Now, I think you are correct that perhaps people are overlooking an important reason as to why he's seen the drop in minutes. Given the fact that he's probably dealing with exams, and given that it's the beginning of ACC play, there are a number of reasons why the drop in minutes may be only temporary. But it's not "disturbingly unobservant" to not pick up on that.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    Now that's empathy.
    He's the Tomax to my Xamot.


  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Well, it's certainly something to keep an eye on, but I don't think it's a cause for alarm yet. Now, if the trend continues well into the ACC season, there might be cause for concern. But I suspect that, within the next few games, we'll see Dawkins get back into the 15-20 minutes per game range.
    I think this is exactly right. Andre is a really good player and in my opinion, it would be unbelievably stupid for him to average only ~5 minutes against ACC teams. But I assume that won't be the case and am not concerned right now.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    He's the Tomax to my Xamot.


    Wow... holy cow, I am SO impressed. Seriously. What a reference.

    Realistically, the lack of time against Clemson isn't so crazy... Andre is not the best ball handler yet, and against their full court pressure, that could have been a bit much.

    Against Iowa State I would have liked to see him play a bit more... let's see what happens in upcoming games!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Who's the fourth guard? We've got a fourth guard? Do you mean Singler? He's not a guard in my book. Great, versatile player, but not a guard.
    Did you really not understand what I was saying or is this a post count comment?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Look, I'm with anybody who wants to talk about Elliot's minutes last year... I am. And, I'm not one of those who thinks Coach K is infallible and must be defended on all things.

    However, saying you are concerned that Dawkins' minutes are going to disappear is equivalent to saying you are concerned K is an absolute idiot.

    Duke has 4 scholarship players capable of contributing on the perimeter for essentially three positions. Only an absolute idiot would play 3 of those 4 players for 40 minutes all season if possible (anybody disagree?). So, only an idiot would leave Dawkins on the bench as much as possible. Coach K has his weaknesses, but he is not an absolute idiot.

    Andre played significant minutes against Arizona St., Uconn, Wisconsin, and Gonzaga. He averages 18 mpg on the season. Andre Dawkins WILL play significant minutes throughout the season. K has shown that he will play him in big games, and furthermore, K is not an absolute idiot.

    Sidenote: Who wants to name for me the number of seasons in which K played, pretty much exclusively, three players for the three guard positions? Anybody?

    I'm sorry if I am coming off as unusually irritated, but this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. K WILL NOT play only Jon, Nolan, and Kyle on the perimeter all season long. If somebody wants to make a sig bet that Dawkins averages less than 15 mpg on the season, I will take it right now.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Sorry, but

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Did you really not understand what I was saying or is this a post count comment?
    I guess I did come off as harsh. Sorry about that.

    What I meant was that I think Duke has only three recruited guards, Scheyer, Smith, and Dawkins. I wasn't thinking of Davidson as a scholarship guard. (I am now corrected on this point.)

    So I was hoping to reinforce your point that Dawkins will play plenty the rest of the year, once he gets past this current rough patch.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    I'm sorry if I am coming off as unusually irritated, but this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. K WILL NOT play only Jon, Nolan, and Kyle on the perimeter all season long. If somebody wants to make a sig bet that Dawkins averages less than 15 mpg on the season, I will take it right now.
    I would take that bet, with the caveat that things obviously will change if one of the three S's gets hurt and misses time with an injury. Otherwise, I expect Dawkins to be a fair bit below 15 mpg by the end of the year. Given that he's around 18 now, I'd ballpark it at closer to 13 mpg by season's end.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    HOF Coach for being an idiot?

    I've got to agree with the poster that said Coach K is not an idiot. He knows what kind of weapon he has ready to come off the bench. Those comparing this to E-Will last year are incorrect. E-Will is not the shooter Andre is. We don't know what's happening in this young mans life. So there is no reason to panic. We're 13-1 with a win over a good conference foe. Go Duke!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Look, I'm with anybody who wants to talk about Elliot's minutes last year... I am. And, I'm not one of those who thinks Coach K is infallible and must be defended on all things.

    However, saying you are concerned that Dawkins' minutes are going to disappear is equivalent to saying you are concerned K is an absolute idiot.

    Duke has 4 scholarship players capable of contributing on the perimeter for essentially three positions. Only an absolute idiot would play 3 of those 4 players for 40 minutes all season if possible (anybody disagree?). So, only an idiot would leave Dawkins on the bench as much as possible. Coach K has his weaknesses, but he is not an absolute idiot.

    Andre played significant minutes against Arizona St., Uconn, Wisconsin, and Gonzaga. He averages 18 mpg on the season. Andre Dawkins WILL play significant minutes throughout the season. K has shown that he will play him in big games, and furthermore, K is not an absolute idiot.

    Sidenote: Who wants to name for me the number of seasons in which K played, pretty much exclusively, three players for the three guard positions? Anybody?

    I'm sorry if I am coming off as unusually irritated, but this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. K WILL NOT play only Jon, Nolan, and Kyle on the perimeter all season long. If somebody wants to make a sig bet that Dawkins averages less than 15 mpg on the season, I will take it right now.
    I agree with you that Dawkins's minutes will increase again. But Coach K has essentially gone with only three perimeter players for three of the past four games. Are you calling him an idiot for doing so? (that's a rhetorical question of course)

    If the playing time reductions are temporary for the reasons we both suspect, then obviously it is/was justifiable. But I don't see the need to bash folks for noticing a recent lack of playing time for Dawkins. Their reaction is premature and will likely wind up moot (assuming Dawkins gets his minutes back), but it's not stupid and it's not disturbingly unobservant.

    Further, your reference to the fact that Coach K has never played only three perimeter players is moot. We've never had a situation in which we had only three capable perimeter players. We know that Coach K will only play guys whom he feels are ready to contribute. Well, if he were to decide that Dawkins isn't currently ready to contribute against ACC comp, he wouldn't play him.

    Now, again, I don't think this recent drastic drop in playing time is evidence that Coach K thinks Dawkins won't be ready for ACC play. But if it were the case, then there is a clear scenario in which Coach K could go with our "big three" for 38+ minutes per game and not be a complete idiot.

    I hate being in this position, because I agree with you that Dawkins will almost certainly see his minutes go back up soon. But I think you're being overly dismissive and insulting to those that disagree. They may be wrong, but it's not as absurd a discussion as you're implying.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    I guess I did come off as harsh. Sorry about that.

    What I meant was that I think Duke has only three recruited guards, Scheyer, Smith, and Dawkins. I wasn't thinking of Davidson as a scholarship guard. (I am now corrected on this point.)

    So I was hoping to reinforce your point that Dawkins will play plenty the rest of the year, once he gets past this current rough patch.
    No problem. We are on the same page

  16. #36
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    I would take that bet, with the caveat that things obviously will change if one of the three S's gets hurt and misses time with an injury. Otherwise, I expect Dawkins to be a fair bit below 15 mpg by the end of the year. Given that he's around 18 now, I'd ballpark it at closer to 13 mpg by season's end.
    Okay, lets make it a signature for one month starting at the conclusion of the last game. I accept your caveat. Agreed?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Okay, lets make it a signature for one month starting at the conclusion of the last game. I accept your caveat. Agreed?
    Done. {shakes hands}

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueintheFace View Post
    Duke has 4 scholarship players capable of contributing on the perimeter for essentially three positions. Only an absolute idiot would play 3 of those 4 players for 40 minutes all season if possible (anybody disagree?). So, only an idiot would leave Dawkins on the bench as much as possible. Coach K has his weaknesses, but he is not an absolute idiot.
    Problem is, it's not that simple. Lance and Kelly can both spell Singler at the 3 briefly, as they did last night. Plus, it's clear that K doesn't mind playing Nolan and Jon 37-38 mins/game, so 5 mpg for Andre is actually very possible, logistic-wise. I think the italicized portion above is an extreme oversimplication... I'm not even sure what "only an idiot would leave Dawkins on the bench as much as possible" really means.

    I'm with CDu... I actually agree with your opinion of the situation, but have issue with you presenting it as an obvious fact.

  19. #39
    Andre is 5-19 with 1 assist and zero steals over the last 5 games. If he keeps playing like that, I have no doubt his minutes will stay cut. All he brings to the table at this point is 3 point shooting, and at 3-15 over that span, he can't even do that.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by xblade View Post
    Andre is 5-19 with 1 assist and zero steals over the last 5 games. If he keeps playing like that, I have no doubt his minutes will stay cut. All he brings to the table at this point is 3 point shooting, and at 3-15 over that span, he can't even do that.
    Of course, you intentionally exclude the Gardner game, where he played quite well, the fact that his low FG production was partly the result of being fouled, resulting in a repectable 11-13 on FTs, and that his per 40 stats weren't bad (16 points, 4 boards and only 1.5 TOs).

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