Omnibus thread for discussion of minutes, or lack thereof.
For any game that we lose this year a contributing factor will be that one or more players had a subpar shooting night. It will not be possible to prove that the poor shooting wasn't caused by tired legs. Those who believe will continue to believe; those who don't will continue to dispute.
This thread should be chock full of useful information to the person that wins that Iron Duke auction item to coach Duke in an ACC game at Cameron while Coach K post his thoughts and suggestions on DBR.
If being a fan were logical, we'd all be Duke fans but some of us were born to a different blue.
Duke just beat a top 25 team by 20 points. It's obvious that we're not going to make the final four because Kyle didn't get to rest the last 2 minutes of this game. What was Coach K thinking?
Phew, I have now completed one of the mandatory post subjects to be a complete DBR poster.
got the "coach K doesn't develop the bench/rest the starters enough" subject done.
Next up: We're too reliant on the 3
After that: We need to recruit a super-athletic one-and-done stud.
On my way, baby!
Brian Zoubek on what was going through his mind walking to the free throw line with 3.6 seconds remaining in the 2010 National Championship game and Duke up by 1: "Fifty percent [of me is] thinking, This is what I've been dreaming of doing my entire life. Fifty percent I'm crapping my pants."
Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!
Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
9F 9F 9F
Players Over 30 MPG
85-86= Johnny Dawkins (33.1), Tommy Amaker (30.2)
86-87= Tommy Amaker (35.6), Danny Ferry (33.2)
87-88= Danny Ferry (32.5)
88-89= Danny Ferry (33.2), Quin Snyder (30.4
89-90= Bobby Hurley (33.4), Phil Henderson (31.5), Christian Laettner (30.0)
90-91= Christian Laettner (30.2), Bobby Hurley (34.7)
91-92= Bobby Hurley (33.6), Christian Laettner (32.2), Thomas Hill (30.6), Grant Hill (30.3), Brian Davis (30.9)
92-93= Bobby Hurley (35.6), Thomas Hill (31.9), Grant Hill (31.6)
93-94= Grant Hill (35.7), Cherokee Parks (30.5), Chris Collins (31.0), Antonio Lang (30.1)
94-95= Cherokee Parks (35.2)
95-96= Jeff Capel (34.9), Chris Collins (34.6), Ricky Price (31.9)
98-99= William Avery (31.0), Trajan Langdon (31.0)
99-00= Shane Battier (35.5), Chris Carrawell (35.6), Jason Williams (34.0)
00-01= Jason Williams (31.8), Shane Battier (34.9)
01-02= Chris Duhon (35.1), Jason Williams (3.6), Mike Dunleavy Jr. (32.4)
02-03= Chris Duhon (36), Dahntay Jones (30.7), JJ Redick (30.7)
03-04= Chris Duhon (35.4), JJ Redick (31.1), Luol Deng (31.1), and Daniel Ewing (30.6)
04-05= JJ Redick (37.3), Daniel Ewing (34.5), Shelden Williams (33.6)
05-06= JJ Redick (37.1), Shelden Williams (33.3), Greg Paulus (32.3)
06-07= Josh McRoberts (35.3), Jon Scheyer (33.7), Greg Paulus (32.4), Demarcus Nelson (31.9)
07-08= Demarcus Nelson (30.9)
08-09= Jon Scheyer (32.8), Kyle Singler (32.2)
09-10= Jon Scheyer (35), Kyle Singler (33.7), Nolan Smith (33.0)
Those are the numbers and I leave it to you to make comparisons and extrapolate as needed for now, but I do have one thing to say:
The difference between 35 mpg and 30 mpg in a 30 game season is 150 minutes of game time. That is literally 2.5 hours of hard basketball over the course of ~5 months. These 18-22 yr old kids practice/ lift/ exercise/ etc... for hours upon hours every day. There is NO WAY those 2.5 hours are the difference between fresh and tired legs in March. If practices are consistently long and grueling, then that might be a different story.... but lots of game time... no way. Does anybody disagree with this?
I feel sure K still does it with all of his meaningful players. This also goes to the per-40-minute stats discussed earlier: some players have a 40 minute game in them. Some don't. One of K's jobs is to balance and maximize everyone's productive time as best he can. It's a bit more subtle than just minutes per game.
Carolina 08-09= Wayne Ellington (30.4), Ty Lawson (30.0), Tyler Hansbrough (30.3)
Kansas 07-08= Mario Chalmers (30.0)
Florida 06-07= Taurean Green (33.2) and Lee Humphrey (30.4)
Florida 05-06= Taurean Green (33.4)
Carolina 04-05= Raymond Felton (31.7)
UConn 03-04= Ben Gordon (34.5), Taliek Brown (30.5), Emeka Okafor (32.4)
Syracuse 02-03= Carmelo Anthony (36.4), Gerry McNamara (35.3), Hakim Warrick (32.7)
Maryland 01-02= Juan Dixon (33.6), Steve Blake (32.0)
Though this stat becomes difficult to read into given the varying prowess of different opponents. I'm guessing some blowouts significantly change these averages.
Just want to make clear that I was completely in agreement with how the minutes were heavy on the 3 amigos this game. Clemson is a hard team to face due to their press and you need experienced ball-handlers to rely on.
Luckily, neither Kyle, Nolan, or Jon tend to get into foul trouble and are less likely to have that problem since they by position play on the perimeter.
OK, if I agree that Coach K has no concept of the correct management of playing time, particularly at the end of games, then we have to start looking to dump him and get a different coach. Any of the Duke assistants would be a waste, since they would just be Coach K writ small. We need new blood -- say, how about the Herricks, are they still around? Of course the team would need refresher courses on how many point you get for making a three point basket. Tim Floyd is clearly looking for work, and John Calipari will be looking once more in a few years.
Sounds as if there are plenty of opportunities out there for us to latch on to a real scumbag. At that point, the quailing about minutes played would cease immediately, since everybody would be busy looking over their shoulders for the NCAA gestapo to swoop down upon the Duke campus and make allegations which would make the Lax mess seem tame.
Aren't we happy that we have none of those problems, and probably won't have any of them, and just have to complain about some players getting too much playing time?
BlueintheFace - here are the numbers I am concerned about. Here are the scoring averages for the top five players on the recent national champions, our three national champions, and our current team:
Duke 2010: 19, 18, 16, 9, 7
UNC 2009: 21, 17, 16, 13, 11
Kansas 2008: 13, 13, 13, 11, 10
Florida 2007: 13, 13, 13, 12, 11
Florida 2006: 14, 13, 13, 11, 11
UNC 2005: 18, 16, 13, 13, 11
UConn 2004: 19, 18, 11, 9, 9
Syracuse 2003: 23, 15, 13, 11, 9
Duke 2001: 22, 20, 13, 13, 12
Duke 1992: 22, 15, 14, 13, 11
Duke 1991: 20, 12, 12, 11, 11
We all remember that Coach K said one of our problems last year was that it felt like we were playing three on five. In my opinion he was dead-on and it's something we need to work at getting better at this season. And we are working at it. But I say we can do better.
I'm not panicking and asking for a massive lineup change or for Ryan Kelly to get some huge jump in playing time. But, yes, I really do think that we'll be a better team in the long run if we play our fourth leading scorer more than five minutes and start using Mason more as he continues to work his way back from his injury throughout January. I'm obviously very happy with a 20 point victory over a ranked team.