Heisman Discussion

[Channing]

In my mind, the best player in college football is Suh (witness, e.g., the Big XII title game). The stats he puts up as an interior lineman are absurd.

The best offensive player in the country, imo, is Toby Gerhart.

I think those are the two least likely of the five to win it. If McCoy or Tebow win it it will have to be as some sort of career achievment award, because neither had spectacular seasons. What are other thoughts?

[blazindw]

I disagree. I think McCoy's had a great season. And, no disrespect to Suh, but no one outside of Big 12 circles had really talked about him until the Big 12 title game. I don't think that he was the best player in college football this year, and I don't think giving it to McCoy would be a "career achievement". I think Spiller should have been a finalist. He has dominated this year and at times singlehandedly carried Clemson on his back to victory (like during the Miami game). If I had a vote, it would go McCoy 1st, Spiller 2nd, Gerhart 3rd.

[Duke4Ever32]

I disagree. I think McCoy's had a great season. And, no disrespect to Suh, but no one outside of Big 12 circles had really talked about him until the Big 12 title game. I don't think that he was the best player in college football this year, and I don't think giving it to McCoy would be a "career achievement". I think Spiller should have been a finalist. He has dominated this year and at times singlehandedly carried Clemson on his back to victory (like during the Miami game). If I had a vote, it would go McCoy 1st, Spiller 2nd, Gerhart 3rd.

I agree with it going to McCoy. Interestingly enough, I just had ESPN on, and a crawler at the bottom of the screen was talking about their "Heisman Predictor" and the mathematical formulas and historical analysis that goes into it. It had McCoy winning the Heisman.

[NashvilleDevil]

I disagree. I think McCoy's had a great season. And, no disrespect to Suh, but no one outside of Big 12 circles had really talked about him until the Big 12 title game. I don't think that he was the best player in college football this year, and I don't think giving it to McCoy would be a "career achievement". I think Spiller should have been a finalist. He has dominated this year and at times singlehandedly carried Clemson on his back to victory (like during the Miami game). If I had a vote, it would go McCoy 1st, Spiller 2nd, Gerhart 3rd.

You never heard about Suh because all the talking heads were busy blowing up Tebow and McCoy and that makes sense since they are the QBs for two very high profile programs. But Suh has been this dominant in every game this year. Unfortunately I can only catch a handful Husker games (miss going to games at Memorial Stadium) but when they were on you knew that Suh was going to make a handful of plays that just blew your mind.

Suh won't win Saturday as a Husker fan I'm glad he will represent the university in New York. I think the order will be Ingram, Gehart, Suh. Ingram has bounced back from the game against Auburn and I think the fact that Alabama has never had a Heisman winner will give him enough votes to edge out Gehart.

[NashvilleDevil]

I agree with it going to McCoy. Interestingly enough, I just had ESPN on, and a crawler at the bottom of the screen was talking about their "Heisman Predictor" and the mathematical formulas and historical analysis that goes into it. It had McCoy winning the Heisman.

This site has been spot on the last 7 years in predicting the winner, http://stiffarmtrophy.com/

I also think their may be a backlash with awarding it to another QB. Same thing happened in 1997 when Woodson won it over Manning.

[Wander]

McCoy is a very good college quarterback but he hasn't quite had a Heisman-worthy season. Clausen of Notre Dame is an example of a QB who's been better this year, and you can't be the best player in the country if you're not the best player at your position.

Suh, on the other hand, has been awesome. It's insane to think how much he influences games as a defensive tackle. I think Gerhart is also a good choice.

I have no idea why Tebow is even a finalist. That's a joke.

[Channing]

McCoy failed to throw for 200 yards 4 times this season. Twice UT blew out their opponent and twice it was a lot closer than people thought it would be. McCoy had a good season, but I don't think he had a Heisman season. Not only that, he looked pretty pedestrian in his two statement games (vs. OU and vs. Neb). Against a pretty mediocre, to say the least, schedule this year (only one team UT played finished the year ranked - Nebraska), McCoy should have put up more dominant numbers. Casey Keenum put up equally, if not more, gaudy stats, but isnt in NY because of the level of competition. I see the same for McCoy, he is just living off his name right now.

I heard Suh mentioned all year. He was largely dismissed because he is an interior defensive lineman, but his dominance was so obvious in the big XII championship game that it gave him the push he needed. Almost every pundit out there is calling him a once in a generation type player - the same type of verbage used to describe Tebow last year and the year before.

Gerhart carried the ball over 100 more times than Spiller, scored twice as many touchdowns, and had the same yds/rush average. Spiller was more of a weapon in the passing and return game, but his rushing numbers were not, on the whole spectacular (failing to break 100 yards on multiple occasions).

[JasonEvans]

I think Gerhart was the best player in college football this year, slightly better than Spiller.

I think McCoy will win the Heisman and I am fine with that.

If Tebow sniffs a win, I will be disgusted. He hasn't even been among the 5 best players in college ball this season... not even close.

--Jason

[hc5duke]

Why is Gerhart even being mentioned? If you knock McCoy for Texas's perceived weak schedule (SOS 30), Stanford (SOS 64) shouldn't even be in the discussion. Hell, let's talk about Keenum (SOS 91) whose numbers (420 yards per game on 71% completion on a 10-2 team) trump both of these guys.

My vote would go Ingram or McCoy - right now Ingram because I think McCoy has had more unspectacular games

[pfrduke]

Why is Gerhart even being mentioned? If you knock McCoy for Texas's perceived weak schedule (SOS 30), Stanford (SOS 64) shouldn't even be in the discussion. Hell, let's talk about Keenum (SOS 91) whose numbers (420 yards per game on 71% completion on a 10-2 team) trump both of these guys.

My vote would go Ingram or McCoy - right now Ingram because I think McCoy has had more unspectacular games

Because Gerhart was the nation's leading rusher and leading touchdown guy, and because he did this in Stanford's biggest games this year:

Oregon: 38 carries, 223 yards, 3TDs
USC: 29, 178, 3
Cal: 20, 136, 4 (plus 29 rec. yards)
Notre Dame: 29, 205, 3 (plus 33 rec. yards)
Arizona: 28, 123, 2 (plus 18 rec. yards)

He also had a TD pass in one of those games (I think ND).

He struggled in just 2 games - at Oregon State (still put up 2 TDs, though), and at Wake.

If your criteria is "more unspectacular games," both McCoy and Ingram had more than Gerhart.

[Mal]

Tebow ... hasn't even been among the 5 best players in college ball this season... not even close.

This can't possibly be true; how can he be The Greatest College Player Ever And Probably The Most Perfect Human Being to Walk The Earth Since You Know Who, yet not be among the 5 best players in college ball this season? ESPN wouldn't steer me wrong, right?

Kidding aside, I don't follow college football at all close enough to have an informed opinion, so I'll say I'm all in favor of a defensive lineman winning, and secondarily in favor of a guy from Stanford winning. "Toby Gerhardt" sounds like someone from U of C who would have won the Heisman had it existed in the late 1910's, then gone on to be a nuclear physicist involved with early reactor tests.

[hc5duke]

If your criteria is "more unspectacular games," both McCoy and Ingram had more than Gerhart.

No, that was sort of a tie-breaker between the two for me.

Because Gerhart was the nation's leading rusher and leading touchdown guy, and because he did this in Stanford's biggest games this year:

Again, Keenum should get it over Gerhart if that is the criteria.

[A-Tex Devil]

- If McCoy wins it, it is a little bit of career achievement, but he's still the most accurate passer in college ball. As a UT fan, I don't think he deserves it this year, but he definitely deserved it last year over Bradford and his 7 future NFL skill position players and 4 NFL OL around him. McCoy had maybe 3. I'm still steamed about last year.

- If Gerhart wins it, I am pissed if I am a Spiller fan. Spiller had a better season in every objective measure but yards. I think Gerhart has a real possibility because the midwest and southeast votes are split.

- Tebow - enough said. His best statistical year at Florida was Florida's worst of his 4 years. Hmmmm....

- If Ingram wins it and everyone says "look what he did against Florida!!" I say, "Look what he did against Auburn!!" If McCoy gets slammed for Saturday, Ingram should for the Auburn game. He was bad before he got his "hip pointer". Frankly, I hope Ingram wins it based on past Heisman performances in championship games (other than Matt Leinart).

- Suh. Suh played his best game Saturday, but if you haven't been watching, he's been a monster all year. The Mizzou game was a prime example. As Matt Hinton of Dr. Saturday has pointed out -- he's the human version of an exploded bomb at the line of scrimmage. The guy esentially plays middle linebacker at the tackle position. He leads the Nebraska defense in tackles. That is absurd against a league that plays mostly spread offenses.

So my vote:

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Spiller
4. Gerhart
5. Ingram
6. Earl Thomas (look for him next year. Kid may be a better all around safety than Eric Berry -- you just haven't heard about him yet.)

If I was to vote on all around good guy with better character than every other player out there because the media told me he has better character than every other player out there. Well, then I'd vote for Tim Tebow.

[pfrduke]

- If Gerhart wins it, I am pissed if I am a Spiller fan. Spiller had a better season in every objective measure but yards. I think Gerhart has a real possibility because the midwest and southeast votes are split.

And touchdowns (by a lot - 27 all told for Gerhart, 21 for Spiller).

And the yardage difference was not small. Spiller played in 13 games and picked up 1145 yards on the ground. Gerhart played in 12 and gained 1736 yards. Even if you factor in receiving yards, Gerhart's +300 in one fewer game.

The yard/carry numbers are almost identical - 5.7 Spiller, 5.6 Gerhart.

Spiller gets a bump for his return game. And he played a ridiculous championship game against Georgia Tech. But through 12 games, he had 1330 rushing/receiving yards and 16 TDs - 500 yards and 10TDs below Gerhart.

Spiller may have been better by subjective measures - I can't really say, since I don't think I saw a single Clemson game this year. But by objective measures, it's Gerhart in a landslide.

[pfrduke]

Again, Keenum should get it over Gerhart if that is the criteria.

I would agree that Keenum is among the top 5 players in football this season. He had a ridiculous statistical year.

I'm just curious as to why you don't believe Gerhart should even be mentioned. He had a great season - by statistical measures, the best of any running back. He was also huge in Stanford's biggest games this season - every other finalist (except Suh, who was ridiculous all year long) has had big games in which they were unimpressive.

[BlueintheFace]

McCoy wasn't even the most deserving candidate on his team (helllllooooo Mr. Shipley), but he might have it coming to him for career accomplishment.

I say Suh for the win as well. Look at the numbers of the rest of the DT's in the nation and then look at Suh. We all saw his impact on a game against UT, and I assure you he has been doing it all year long.

I say Ingram over the other RBs a MILLION times over again. Just look at the competition. Seriously, the SEC was just amazing this year top to bottom. Vandy was the ONLY easy game and those defenses... oh man.

I guess if I had to rank on this season alone, I'd say:

Suh
Ingram
Shipley

If I had to do it the way the Heisman voters do it:

McCoy
Suh
Ingram

[roywhite]

It's been a year where there have some good offensive performances, but nothing that reaches truly outstanding, slam-dunk, separate from the field type year.

Give it to Suh. He's truly outstanding, truly dominating at what he does, and why not have a defensive player win it occasionally?

[NashvilleDevil]

At stiffarmtrophy.com they have updated the ballots. It is Ingram, Gerhardt and Suh with McCoy and Tebow a distant 4th and 5th. Of the ballots that they have seen Suh has the most 1st place votes by a good margin but he is not getting many 2nd or 3rds. Tebow had more 1st place votes last year as well.

[blazindw]

I had heard about Suh, as I follow Texas since my brother went there. But I hadn't heard much about him. Again, people talk about unspectacular games against OU and Neb, but he also had a heckuva game against A&M, another big rivalry and statement game. He also torched Mizzou and OK State, teams that were ranked and considered contenders to beat Texas when they played. I pay great attention to national and local football news, and in my opinion, while Suh was great, he wasn't anything special until Nebraska was on the national stage. McCoy has done it all year, Spiller has done it all year. Ingram, in my opinion, while he torched Florida, disappeared against Auburn and another game that I can't recollect right now. McCoy for Heisman. Tebow should be in the peanut gallery with a Heisman ballot, not sitting with 4 other finalists.

And A-Tex, agree with you about Earl Thomas. I walk around with a #12 Texas jersey on, I actually say it's an Earl Thomas jersey (he's in my brother's frat). He will crack skulls next year.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Im not a huge fan of the Heisman because it is so political. I would go with Toby Gerhart as he has almost carried Stanford. Some of the games he has had this year, just ridiculous. Plus, this was a team that just last year was in obscurity. It's seriously a toss up between him and Ingram though so Ingram would probably ge the nod because of Alabama's trip to the NC game. McCoy will probably win it though. He has ridiculous numbers, besides the Big 12 championship game. McCoy will win it, but I think Gerhart deserves it more.

For the record, Tebow is a joke. He should not even be mentioned in the same breath as McCoy and even Clausen.