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  1. #1
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    Feb 2007
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    Weak Non-conference schedule

    Why do we schedule such a weak non-conference schedule? I mean I know that Tulsa and some of these other teams are their conference champions, but in the Sweet Sixteen, is it more likely that we see Tulsa or Villanova or Texas?

    The reason that teams like UNC have a better percentage in the NCAA tournament, right now, must be attributed to the strength of schedule.

  2. #2
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    The reason that teams like UNC have a better percentage in the NCAA tournament, right now, must be attributed to the strength of schedule.
    Carolina played a much weaker non-conference schedule last year than Duke has this year. Didn't seem to hurt them much.

    By January 30 Duke will have played Connecticut, Wisconsin, Gonzaga and Georgetown, all away from home, and all teams that will be ranked on Monday. The schedule is fine.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    Why do we schedule such a weak non-conference schedule? I mean I know that Tulsa and some of these other teams are their conference champions, but in the Sweet Sixteen, is it more likely that we see Tulsa or Villanova or Texas?

    The reason that teams like UNC have a better percentage in the NCAA tournament, right now, must be attributed to the strength of schedule.
    Yeah, I'm sure it's strength of schedule and has nothing to do with talent and experience, like NPOY Tyler Hansbrough and ACC POY Ty Lawson. UNC has not had as strong of a SOS as they do this year in the early season the last few years. NEXT.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Carolina played a much weaker non-conference schedule last year than Duke has this year. Didn't seem to hurt them much.

    By January 30 Duke will have played Connecticut, Wisconsin, Gonzaga and Georgetown, all away from home, and all teams that will be ranked on Monday. The schedule is fine.
    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Playing UCONN at MSG is nothing like playing UK at UK or KU at KU. I don't attribute Duke's postseason lack of success only to scheduling, but I do recognize the fact that Duke never wants to play away from Durham (and MSG-Duke North) and it hurts the team down the stretch of the season.

    I just remember us playing UK at UK in 2001, a hostile environment, and I remember that being extremely beneficial.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Playing UCONN at MSG is nothing like playing UK at UK or KU at KU. I don't attribute Duke's postseason lack of success only to scheduling, but I do recognize the fact that Duke never wants to play away from Durham (and MSG-Duke North) and it hurts the team down the stretch of the season.
    How? During the stretch of the season, Duke is usually playing in hostile environments. More than enough opportunities to learn there.

    I just remember us playing UK at UK in 2001, a hostile environment, and I remember that being extremely beneficial.
    I'm pretty sure that never happened. I don't think we've played Kentucky at Kentucky since the 1980 Regional Semifinal.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    Why do we schedule such a weak non-conference schedule?
    Please don't look past today's opponent. St. John's starts five juniors and plays nine players double-digit minutes. They have talent and the game isn't going to be a cakewalk. I predict the outcome will not have been decided with three minutes left in the game. Those last 180 seconds will be crucial.

    Our non-conference schedule is okay.
    Bob Green

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireOgilvie View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure it's strength of schedule and has nothing to do with talent and experience, like NPOY Tyler Hansbrough and ACC POY Ty Lawson. UNC has not had as strong of a SOS as they do this year in the early season the last few years. NEXT.
    I shouldn't have said that SOS is THE reason for Duke's lack of success, but I think it is important that Coach K rethink the scheduling of these cupcakes like St. John's (even though it is our last time playing them) and schedule some tougher competition on the road before ACC play. I guess that was my point, I just articulated it in a different way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    How? During the stretch of the season, Duke is usually playing in hostile environments. More than enough opportunities to learn there.



    I'm pretty sure that never happened. I don't think we've played Kentucky at Kentucky since the 1980 Regional Semifinal.
    You're right... they played at a neutral site. Man I am off today. I will quit now.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    I just remember us playing UK at UK in 2001, a hostile environment, and I remember that being extremely beneficial.
    We did not play at UK in 2001.

    12/18/2001: We defeated UK 95-92 in East Rutherford, NJ.
    Bob Green

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    ...but I think it is important that Coach K rethink the scheduling of these cupcakes like St. John's...
    I sure hope the team doesn't share your over confidence. St. John's isn't a cupcake.
    Bob Green

  11. #11
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    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Playing UCONN at MSG is nothing like playing UK at UK or KU at KU.
    Of course, when the tournament rolls around, we play teams at neutral sites, and not at UK or at KU.

    Also, did you watch the UCONN game? That crowd was not even neutral, let alone in our favor. The Huskies put a lot of fans in the building.
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    Why do we schedule such a weak non-conference schedule? I mean I know that Tulsa and some of these other teams are their conference champions, but in the Sweet Sixteen, is it more likely that we see Tulsa or Villanova or Texas?

    The reason that teams like UNC have a better percentage in the NCAA tournament, right now, must be attributed to the strength of schedule.
    Ah-hem.

    http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html

    Duke SOS #2
    UNC SOS #160

    'nuff said.

    I can bring up more if you want...

  13. #13
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    NYC
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    Of course, when the tournament rolls around, we play teams at neutral sites, and not at UK or at KU.

    Also, did you watch the UCONN game? That crowd was not even neutral, let alone in our favor. The Huskies put a lot of fans in the building.
    There is a large difference in watching the game versus attending the game. The UConn fanbase was more located in several sections of the garden but Duke had way more fans overall. Watching the game on TV doesn't tell you everything about a crowd. Duke has a great NYC following and they were there supporting the team.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    I just remember us playing UK at UK in 2001, a hostile environment, and I remember that being extremely beneficial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    We did not play at UK in 2001.

    12/18/2001: We defeated UK 95-92 in East Rutherford, NJ.
    I don't know how beneficial it was. Duke lost in the sweet 16 that year, ironically in Lexington, Ky.

    Also, the whole playing "true road games" in the non-conference argument is sometimes made with the case that it prepares teams for the hostile environments of conference road-games- not necessarily for the NCAA tourney. And I would say Duke has done just fine in the ACC regular season the past decade, which is the time span to which this "criticism" is usually attributed.
    Last edited by Bob Green; 12-05-2009 at 03:20 PM. Reason: Fix quote tags

  15. #15
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    Nashville
    Quote Originally Posted by dukediv2013 View Post
    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Playing UCONN at MSG is nothing like playing UK at UK or KU at KU. I don't attribute Duke's postseason lack of success only to scheduling, but I do recognize the fact that Duke never wants to play away from Durham (and MSG-Duke North) and it hurts the team down the stretch of the season.

    I just remember us playing UK at UK in 2001, a hostile environment, and I remember that being extremely beneficial.
    Playing UConn at MSG is as close as you can possibly get to a sweet 16 game. Playing UK at UK would not happen in the tournament.

    And I don't know if I buy the argument that a tough schedule generally means better tourney performance. I mean, look at Memphis' 2008 runner up team's schedule: they had 2 games against ranked teams all year: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/...=235&year=2008 Duke had a pretty tough schedule that year (played 6 ranked teams), and bowed out in the 2nd round.

    To me, it seems that sometimes teams can get worn down mentally by tournament time if they play too many "big games" throughout the season... it's a lot of pressure. I'm sure there are pros and cons both ways, but I don't think it's clear-cut that the tougher your schedule is, the better.

  16. #16
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    I will say that for awhile running now, excluding this year, our non-conference schedule HAS been not-so-strong. I do believe this part of our schedule, this year, is much improved.

    dth.

  17. #17
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    Jun 2009
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    Saint Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by airowe View Post
    Ah-hem.

    http://www.realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html

    Duke SOS #2
    UNC SOS #160

    'nuff said.

    I can bring up more if you want...
    I guess I must not understand SOS calculation because that makes no sense at all to me. Texas, Kentucky, and Michigan state have to count for something...

  18. #18
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by CMARTZ View Post
    I guess I must not understand SOS calculation because that makes no sense at all to me. Texas, Kentucky, and Michigan state have to count for something...
    It's a to-date only ranking (so Kentucky and Texas weren't factored in yet).
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  19. #19
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    Jun 2009
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    Saint Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    It's a to-date only ranking (so Kentucky and Texas weren't factored in yet).
    Ah ok, thanks for the explanation. That would seem to make it a very meaningless statistic.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CMARTZ View Post
    Ah ok, thanks for the explanation. That would seem to make it a very meaningless statistic.
    The SOS table also has NCState's SOS at 39 vs. UNC at 160 prior to today. State toughest game has been Northwestern - I think the table is a total crock until more games are played.

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