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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA

    MBB: St. John's @ Duke pre-game and in-game thread

    Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up or if some other surprise awaits us when the team takes the court against the St. John's Red Storm. Duke should be playing with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and they will need to be as the Red Storm are an experienced team and the game on Saturday will be a lot closer than the ones the past several years.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Wink All Shook Up

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up or if some other surprise awaits us when the team takes the court against the St. John's Red Storm. Duke should be playing with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and they will need to be as the Red Storm are an experienced team and the game on Saturday will be a lot closer than the ones the past several years.
    I don't know whether a major shakeup is in order. I thought Scheyer's quote about Wisconsin wanting it more was dead on target. Duke came off an emotional exhilarating win over UConn and suffered a serious letdown.

    In terms of starters and minutes, I suspect that LT and Zoubs didn't help their cause very much with really clumsy play against Badgers who were a bit clumsy themselves: "Drop the ball in the basket, Brian!" "Make the pass, Lance!" I bet we see more of Mason in the St. Johns game.

    Dawkins is already the first guy off the bench. I hope he isn't added to the starting lineup in place of a big guy -- the DBR would absolutely detonate if Duke went small in the first week of December. Imagine: we start Miles, Kyle, Jon, Nolan and Andre; that makes our bench LT, Zoubs, Mason, Kelly and Czyz. We would have the tallest bench in the universe, averaging 6-9 1/2.

    sagegrouse
    Last edited by sagegrouse; 12-03-2009 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Strengthened the Prose to Pulitzer Prize Territory

  3. #3

    Shake up the lineup?

    Our weaknesses were exposed against ASU and again against W. The play of our bigs was a weak area with Zoubek and Thomas unable to contribute anything offensively.

    Our best teams include Miles at the big. Mason offers some hope as he improves. If we use a high low game it has to be either with Kelly playing high or perhaps Mason, if he can handle it. The top of the key man needs to be able to hit the open shot from there.

    The team needs to incorporate Dawkins shooting ability into the game plan and go to him early and often. If he can stretch defenses, then Smith and Scheyer may also get more open looks.

    When Zoubek is in the game, we need to think about zone defense. His mobility is better suited to the zone in my opinion.

    Thomas will get playing time due to his man defensive abilities. His PT should not reflect that of a starter as he is one dimensional.

    Looks like the best team right now includes Miles, Singler, Scheyer, Smith and Dawkins. Key subs will include Mason and I would advocate Kelly. Thomas has his place and Zoubek can give good minutes against teams with comparable centers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Atlanta

    Lineup Change

    As much as I love the kid, I don't think inserting him into the starting lineup right now is a good move at all.

    1) he is obviously comfortable being the first guy off the bench and 7 games into his college career I wouldn't want anything to effect his comfort level. 2) we can't take out a big this early in the season, so does he take Nolan's spot? If so, what does that do to Nolan's confidence as he is slowly breaking through to be that player we know he can be. 3) if he does take a big's spot, that moves Kyle back to the 4 which K would like to avoid for the most part. I think we saw last night, he is more effective at the 3.

    If there is lineup change, I think (although it wouldn't be a shock) Mason for Lance. Start getting him into more of a rythm.

    Also, anyone notice that at least the last few years, we always go into the SJ game after a loss. The only people as mad at the loss as we are are the SJ team and fans...Maybe we can take it out on them again...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wherever the wind blows and the leaves dance.
    I still can't believe how ineffective Brian and Lance were in the Wisconsin game. These guys are seniors and looked lost in the game. Neither of them have any confidence.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    I agree on the need for Lance to step it up and I believe he can. Zoub on the other hand is playing as good as he can, imo. He is definitely trying.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    I agree on the need for Lance to step it up and I believe he can. Zoub on the other hand is playing as good as he can, imo. He is definitely trying.
    Both are trying and both are about as effective as they can be. They are seniors, so we should expect smarter decisions from them, but for the 1 billionth time: they are known commodities, don't expect any crazy jump in performance/production. Lance has played in ~90-100 games and started ~60-70 games so far in his career so he's not going to suddenly start performing better than he did in his previous 100 games. Zoubs will never be effective against mobile bigs who like to float out.

    We will reach out full potential when the plumlees are both playing together and playing well. That's also when we will be at our most athletic.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    We will reach out full potential when the plumlees are both playing together and playing well. That's also when we will be at our most athletic.
    The development of the Plumlees at the 4 and 5 over the course of this season is one of the most exciting aspects of this team, imho. Look forward to seeing the next step of that on Saturday.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by whereinthehellami View Post
    I still can't believe how ineffective Brian and Lance were in the Wisconsin game. These guys are seniors and looked lost in the game. Neither of them have any confidence.
    I'm with you. It looked to me like Zoubs was making freshman mistakes as a senior. Lance looked OK, but not great. I'd love to see both elevate their games.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Moving forward, Coach K has been known to shake things up after a loss so I'm wondering if Andre Dawkins has shot his way into the starting line-up or if some other surprise awaits us when the team takes the court against the St. John's Red Storm. Duke should be playing with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and they will need to be as the Red Storm are an experienced team and the game on Saturday will be a lot closer than the ones the past several years.
    I like Dre off the bench for now. I think it's too early to shock guys with a lineup change, but you never know. If they had played the 2nd half the same way they did in the 1st half, then maybe they would need a 'wake-up call'.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    Think about it

    Coach K has inserted someone into the starting lineup after a lackluster game based on practice results. And that has usually come from the defensive part of the game. If someone stands out in practice these next few days, that person may earn a starting spot. Go Duke!

  12. #12
    Let's bump this up and get ready for the next game. Anyone know anything meaningful about St. John's team this year?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by SMO View Post
    Let's bump this up and get ready for the next game. Anyone know anything meaningful about St. John's team this year?
    They're undefeated. Decent wins against Siena and Temple. Close wins over St. Bony and Stoney Brook. Anthony Mason Jr (arguably their best player) is out for another couple games. They have two players averaging double figures. They are sort of all over the place, but playing well for the most part. 3rd straight year they get Duke after a loss. I'm sure they aren't too happy about last night's game either.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    I would love to see TONS of touches for the Plumlees this game. That is my #1 wish going in.

  15. #15

    From the St. John's perspective

    Seems so early to be back here again this year. Just wanted to share our pre-game column with you again. Give a little insight to what we think about Duke as well as some information on St. John's too.


    Calm Before the Storm: Runnin' with the Devils


    Also we always like to look at what the opposition is saying. So here is a link to our forum as well.

  16. #16
    There are a ton of interesting matchups in this game. Our front court is strong and.....wait for it.....athletic. They could pose problems but then again your guys are probably more disciplined. I'm worried how we react to pump fakes and Duke is sure to throw plenty of them.

    The guards should pressure each other plenty both ways. Turnovers will play a big role for each team. I think a great percentage of points will come off TO's

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lincoln Ne

    Good read

    I have to say I don't know much about the Storm, but from the way the information was laid out it appeared as the Storm have one good weapon. If this is the case the score will not be as close as the prediction indicated. At home after a loss we will be highly motivated. The worst thing to happen to St. John was a Duke loss to Wisconsin. I feel like we will win by 15. That being said it is college basketball and anything can happen.

  18. #18
    I've always measured a Duke team's potential in any given year by how they follow up with a a loss, particularly if its high profile, embarrassing, or just plain bad. Great Duke teams always seemed to pin back their ears and ruin their opponent after a loss. The ones that are lacking that certain something, quite frankly, do not. I can think of a couple of examples.

    In 2001, UMD flat out embarrassed Duke, on K's birthday if memory serves. It was not pretty. Despite what all the pundits insisted, UNC never knew what hit them has the Devils ran the holes off the schnoze center.

    In 2006, Duke suffered one of the more embarrassing losses to FSU in JJ's senior season. In what some say was a cowardly move, K pulled all the starters for the last minute and put in the scrubs so the starters wouldn't risk injury when the fans stormed the court. It was a low point of the season, but not the lowest.
    That would be the very next game as the inexperienced heels showed up Duke in the second half, scoring at will the last 5 minutes. I was....very angry, and I also knew that this team honestly did not have the heart to win a national championship.

    I'm sure people will hunt the various statistics from previous Duke seasons to try to prove this theory wrong. Don't bother. Every season's success is the result of all games played, but what defines those teams is how they react to adversity and how much pride the put in their team. I never seen any evidence to the contrary.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    DJ Kennedy, small forward for St. John's scored 20 against Duke in last year's game at MSG. I'll be curious to see whether Duke's size inside gives him some trouble. Kennedy was a high school teammate of DeJuan Blair, from Pitt, who also played well against Duke.

  20. #20
    Regardless of what St. John's does, I expect an EXTREMELY intense first 5-10 minutes of defense from Duke. I would suspect the biggest challenge might be avoiding overly aggressive play and foul trouble in the opening half.

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