A moral loss?

[striker219]

If a David plays well and fights a Goliath to the wire but can't quite pull out the "W", it is often considered a moral victory. My question is, could the win Carolina managed to eek out against Nevada be considered a moral loss?

Can't shoot free throws, can't dribble penetrate, lost against the zone...

[feldspar]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Carolina is just not that good this year. All I keep hearing from the pundits is that they're only going to keep getting better as the season goes on, but I'm not seeing it so far.

I'm smelling an old-fashioned Michigan St beatdown this week, and a follow up beat down on Saturday vs. Kentucky.

[DevilHorns]

If a David plays well and fights a Goliath to the wire but can't quite pull out the "W", it is often considered a moral victory. My question is, could the win Carolina managed to eek out against Nevada be considered a moral loss?

Can't shoot free throws, can't dribble penetrate, lost against the zone...

W is a W, IMO. Each W has things to learn from, improve upon, what have you. This one will have a lot of tape for Carolina to review.

[DevilHorns]

I'm smelling an old-fashioned Michigan St beatdown this week, and a follow up beat down on Saturday vs. Kentucky.

UK has had more near misses than any "top" team this year. I wouldn't be suprised if UNC woops em.

[Duvall]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Carolina is just not that good this year. All I keep hearing from the pundits is that they're only going to keep getting better as the season goes on, but I'm not seeing it so far.

Well, maybe. The Heels have three good players; their problem is that all three play the same position. If even one of their freshmen improves enough to give them some help on the perimeter - any help - they'll be okay. Not great, but okay.

I'm smelling an old-fashioned Michigan St beatdown this week, and a follow up beat down on Saturday vs. Kentucky.

We can hope, but it wouldn't shock me if UNC won either game, or both. As dukemsu noted in another thread, Sparty has a habit of getting too hyped up for big games like this, and Kentucky, despite having all-world talent, simply hasn't gelled yet this year. Somebody is going to get them early, and it might well be the Heels.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I don't think there is any kind of moral loss. A win is a win, but a there is such a thing as a moral win even if you loss the game.

[JaMarcus Russell]

UNC reminds me quite a bit of the 2006-07 Duke team. Granted the UNC team does have some senior leadership (Ginyard and Thompson) while the Duke team had just one upperclassman, and Scheyer and Henderson were significantly better than any of the current UNC freshmen, but both squads are 5 or 6 seed caliber teams from traditional powerhouses.

[darthur]

UK has had more near misses than any "top" team this year. I wouldn't be suprised if UNC woops em.

Yeah, UK would be my choice for biggest fraud in the top 10 right now. Not that I've seen them or anything, but even so.

[geraldsneighbor]

Duke had a win last year vs. URI by 3 points I believe that we had to sweat out till the bitter end.

UNC has their flaws but like UK has done this year they found a way to win the game. I think the Holes are probably a 15-20 team in the country and UK is ranked strictly by potential. This week we will learn a lot about each of these teams.

[SeattleIrish]

Before ASU blew out LSU, many may have pinned the "moral loss" tag on Duke. UNC has a ton of talent, and they'll be a challenge for almost any team they face on the floor.

If there is a moral loss for UNC in this game, it was in the crowd - the DD was only half full and the "fans" didn't even stick around to see 'ole Roy get honored for his 600th win. The fan support at that school, outside of the big games, can be pretty pathetic.

s.i.

[-bdbd]

Since the biggest benefit of a "moral victory" is supposedly psychological - giving a previously downtrodden team great confidence going forward - the I have to think that a "moral loss" is possible as well. IOW, a "win" that leaves the victor with greater doubts about their abilities and status. Though, as we know so well, "humility" has never been a term used often in the same sentence with "Carolina basketball" or "Carolina fans," I think that you have to believe these guys are starting to doubt their collective ability. Certainly none of them are crowing about FF expectations right now.

Confidence (or a lack of it) can make collapse come all that quicker if things start to go poorly against a solid opponent like MSU or (supposedly talent-wise) UK. Let's see how they react if things start going south in one/both of these upcoming games...

By the way, I have to believe that Duke as a team is feeling MORE confident than how they did starting the season. As a fan, I am feeling much better about our chances than I was a few weeks ago...

[RelativeWays]

Nevada is not a bad team, that Babbitt kid really reminded me of how Kyle plays, though less perimeter oriented. The sheep played to their strengths and that was rebounding and second chance baskets.

UNC will find out a lot about their team this month and they'll know what they need to correct for the ACC season. I don't think they are anywhere near the best team in the ACC right now, we'll see where things lay in March. I've followed this game long enough to know that writing anyone off in November is foolish, same with assuming a great November/December team will still be great come March.

[NYDukie]

If a David plays well and fights a Goliath to the wire but can't quite pull out the "W", it is often considered a moral victory. My question is, could the win Carolina managed to eek out against Nevada be considered a moral loss?

Can't shoot free throws, can't dribble penetrate, lost against the zone...

I wouldn't say its a moral loss. If this situation had happened to Duke many would be spinning it as a good tough win against a solid mid major, the type of team we may see early in the NCAA's giving the team the opportunity to improve on XYZ. I think because it's UNC, a lot of us like to jump to conclusions on them and make predictions on their season just 6 games in or so while at the same time we become defensive of those that critique our Duke team the same amount of games in.

Bottom line is both teams have their strengths and some warts but will be major players come March, just that our boys will be better IMO come March this time around.

[Chitowndevil]

I don't put much stock in moral victories or losses. A win is a win.

That said, I do think a team's weaknesses can be exposed in a win and strengths discovered in a loss, and that can play a big role in a team's development or lack thereof. I don't call those 'moral victories' though as I think resulting development has a lot more to do with what you do in practice afterward (and what opponents do to exploit you).

I don't see UNC as even a very good team this year, much less a great one. This will be the first time at Carolina that Roy Williams will have to make due with a less than all-ACC PG. I think you'll see a big difference at both ends.

And don't be too quick to count out UK due to early season struggles. The past few games made me remember Duke's struggles during Jason Williams's first few games at the point. We also saw how much Tyreke Evans and Derek Rose improved in terms of fitting into the team the last couple of seasons.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

That was another game of player development from 'Ol Roy.
He did a nice job too. When it was time to turn it up at the six minute mark to put it away, he brought the starters in, challenged them, and they stepped it up.

Nevada was not a bad team, either. They were pretty quick and could shoot it. Heels did a much better job of taking care of the ball than they have been and it showed with the quality of the defense.

This is not the well oiled, smooth team you saw last year. That team was a porsche, this team is an SUV, with leather interior.

Deon is giving Scheyer some competition for the early lead for ACC POY.

Larry Drew is doing what a good point guard should do. 12pts, 10ast, 1 TO last night and controlled the pace. Shooting free throws is the problem that's going to bite this team, not the point guard.

Graves is still laying in the tall grass. He's doing the little things well, solid D, taking care of the ball and rebounding strong, but so far has been pretty patient waiting for his shots and still has not found the flow. He is going to break out with an 18-20pt night sooner or later.

The minutes narrowed some last night and I think he's settled on the nine players to see the majority of time.
He'll start Deon,Davis,Graves,Ginyard and Drew.
Zeller, will play quite a bit, Henson, Strickland, Wear will provide rest minutes.

This is a good team, a top ten team. Just not last years level team.

[whereinthehellami]

MSU and KY both have good athletic backcourts that will give UNC problems. I think UK will be the type of team that plays to their level of competition. UK has alot of talent though for sure. I think UNC loses both of these games, the UK game could be a blowout.

[jv001]

That was another game of player development from 'Ol Roy.

The minutes narrowed some last night and I think he's settled on the nine players to see the majority of time.
He'll start Deon,Davis,Graves,Ginyard and Drew.
Zeller, will play quite a bit, Henson, Strickland, Wear will provide rest minutes.

This is a good team, a top ten team. Just not last years level team.

strickland is not going to get major minutes? I thought that he's the on the court coach. You know the one that really knows about the system. Even the Duke system. "Rest minutes" for strickland???? Maybe he should just stick to learning how to play the game and not giving high school players advice about Duke's system. Go Duke!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

strickland is not going to get major minutes? I thought that he's the on the court coach. You know the one that really knows about the system. Even the Duke system. "Rest minutes" for strickland???? Maybe he should just stick to learning how to playing the game and not giving high school players advice about Duke's system. Go Duke!

I guess the freshman struck a nerve?

Rest minutes (replacing Ginyard and Drew) for the forseeable future, up to about 10 minutes a game would be my guess until he gets more comfortable and makes better decisions. He is a freshman after all.

[airowe]

At least roy isn't forcing Strickland to fit into his "system". I know our backcourt is thin and it wouldn't be pretty if we lost one of our guards, but can you imagine if LD2 were to go down? Or one of their "Big 3"?

[airowe]

I guess the freshman struck a nerve?

Rest minutes (replacing Ginyard and Drew) for the forseeable future, up to about 10 minutes a game would be my guess until he gets more comfortable and makes better decisions. He is a freshman after all.

But, but I thought roy played a deep bench and showcased his 5-star Freshmen?