Duke Hate Tsunami, 2009-10 edition

[DukeGirl4ever]

UNC has the ultimate trump card...Jordan

I agree with that...but here's what I don't get.
I teach middle school age children and so many of them wear UNC clothing (it makes me puke). I've asked all of them why they like UNC, and most say JORDAN. I know some of them weren't even around when Jordan played pro so how they can like UNC for a man they've never even seen play there is beyond my comprehension. I tell them to get another "excuse" b/c that's not even a valid reason.

On a side note - one of my student's parents BOTH went to UNC, she was brought home from the hospital in a UNC outfit. Her favorite team now? The team with the RIGHT shade of blue. Just goes to show you that nature over-rules the nurture argument.

[devildownunder]

Most of the fans that propagate the hate are physically closer to guys like Paulus, Reddick, Wojo, and Collins. It makes targeting them easier. A similiar thing happened in the Big East with Gerry Mcnamara and Eric Devendorf. The Christian Laettner / Danny Ferry hate has been retro active in my opinion. Very few non ACC fans hated either guy while they played.

I've seen/heard this from enough white fans to start thinking that this is true for a lot of people. I don't understand why it's the case and the implications for how some fans who react this way perceive/feel about black basketball players are troubling to me so I wish I weren't starting to have the ring of truth to it.

[RelativeWays]

In my experiences, the dislike that a lot of black basketball fans have for Duke is markedly less than the complete disdain and vitriol white basketball fans have for Duke. There's no comparison. The Duke and UNC hatred stems far more from where the two institutions and programs are alike, not where they are different.

[tecumseh]

I agree it is the "get a life" white fans that have the most vitriol for Duke.
I might have sick sense of humor but my dream finish is for Duke to beat darling Butler on Monday night on a bad call. Like Butler scores the go ahead field goal with a second left and it is waved off as a charge. It would be great.

[wilson]

"Oderint dum metuant." --Caligula

[coldriver10]

Maybe I'm the only one that hates all the hate. It gets tiresome having to defend not only the team I love and the coach I most admire, but also the university I've proudly called "home" for the last 8+ years. My dream since i was 9 years old was to go to Duke. It's is an amazing place, a combination of academic excellence, ethics, and school spirit matched at few, if any, schools, and yet all I hear about Duke are words like "elitist", "spoiled", "white." Sigh...I admit I get overly sensitive trying to defend the place that I love and the team that represents it so well. It's hard for me not to.

[Dr. Tina]

The Duke hate has been alive and well on Facebook. I have one "friend" who's been giving out "free tips" about how Duke is going to lose in the first weekend...then against Texas A&M, etc.. Now he's predicting WVU/Butler in the final game. I told him it's a good thing his tips are free because he's been wrong every time...to which he replied, "Duke sucks and they will lose...Thank you for your time!"

My response:

No, really, let me thank you...thank you for yet another "succinct reply" lacking in intelligent thought and originality!

I bet you make every Duke hater proud. What an accomplishment!

GO DUKE!!!!!!! ...

Hehehe..

[77devil]

The Duke hate has been alive and well on Facebook. I have one "friend" who's been giving out "free tips" about how Duke is going to lose in the first weekend...then against Texas A&M, etc.. Now he's predicting WVU/Butler in the final game. I told him it's a good thing his tips are free because he's been wrong every time...to which he replied, "Duke sucks and they will lose...Thank you for your time!"

My response:

No, really, let me thank you...thank you for yet another "succinct reply" lacking in intelligent thought and originality!

I bet you make every Duke hater proud. What an accomplishment!

GO DUKE!!!!!!! ...

Hehehe..

Suggest you drop him as a friend.

[Dr. Tina]

Suggest you drop him as a friend.

Ha, I just may with all of the ridiculous Duke hate he's spewing. I didn't realize how much he hated them until the NCAA tournament started because he's a Syracuse fan and hasn't commented on Duke before.

Talk about sour grapes! You'd think he was a UNC fan! Hahahahaha!

[Spret42]

Tyler did get his share of hate but it was not the 24/7 coverage that our guys get. On a national level it was probably the most for a non-Duke player I have seen. The thing is it's easier to target a smaller white guard than a white big man. Most of the fans that propagate the hate are physically closer to guys like Paulus, Reddick, Wojo, and Collins. It makes targeting them easier. A similiar thing happened in the Big East with Gerry Mcnamara and Eric Devendorf. The Christian Laettner / Danny Ferry hate has been retro active in my opinion. Very few non ACC fans hated either guy while they played.

Gerry McNamara wasn't that hated. If a player is white and people decide to see the underdog "fighter" thing in him he won't be hated. McNamara was viewed as almost black, like the kind of white kid who learned the game on a black top. Redick, Paulus et al weren't viewed that way. They were viewed as privileged kids who learned the game in the warm gym of a private school and then went to Duke for more of the same.

Perception rules.

[DukeGirl4ever]

Suggest you drop him as a friend.

DITTO! I did the same thing with a UNC fan/"friend" of mine.
When Duke had a 10-day break between games for finals, I did a TOP 10 REASONS I LIKE DUKE for my status updates.

On the last day, his status was "Thank God the Duke Top 10 is over"...this coming from a divorced, unemployed, bald-headed 35 year old who is in court for assaulting his ex-wife.

Typical UNC fan
(Kidding!)
But you can see why he hates Duke...he's accomplished NOTHING in his life. These boys have already accomplished more than he can ever even dream about. It all goes back to the JEALOUSY factor.

[nmduke2001]

I think that it all comes down to the “I could have done that” mentality. “Sports Nation” had a poll a few months back in which 60% of respondents thought they could have been a professional athlete had it not been for an injury or coach that didn’t like them. These same guys see some of our players and think they are just lucky. If you look at someone like Dwight Howard, you can easily see that he is a vastly superior athlete. You look at someone like JJ Redick and you wonder why he is scoring 30 against ACC competition. The “haters” identify with JJ Redick (at least physically), so they wonder why they aren’t a college basketball star. Most people can’t identify with Shaq.

[NYDukie]

In my experiences, the dislike that a lot of black basketball fans have for Duke is markedly less than the complete disdain and vitriol white basketball fans have for Duke. There's no comparison. The Duke and UNC hatred stems far more from where the two institutions and programs are alike, not where they are different.

It's funny that you say this. I was discussing this with a black co-worker of mine who, like me (though I'm white), grew up in NYC and played ball with a myriad of different backgrounds. Many a time is was one of a few white kids playing with and against black kids. What we concluded, and this is by no means scientific...LOL...is that there is a lot white on white hate as there ia black on black hate when it comes to athletics in general and basketball in this case. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that he knew of some friends that made it out of the projects and that there were plenty of those in the projects that thought they were "uncle toms" for using baskets to get out and not come back and/or forget where they came from. In the case of Duke or white athletes, many white people are jealous of successful white athletes because of the perceived notion that these white athletes aren't athletic enough to be as successful as they are and have the feeling that "why can't that be me", he doesn't run or jump that much better than me. Basically, it comes down to one word as Dickie V pointed out...and its "JEALOUSY". So in the case of Duke, many of the haters are white and they hate because they are "jealous" they were never able to be that good at playing basketball when they see players that are athletic but maybe not "elite" athlectic. Just my 2 cents. Would be curious to here what some of our fellow black Duke fans have to say as I know we all can have a constructive discussion about this!

[RockLobster]

In my experiences, the dislike that a lot of black basketball fans have for Duke is markedly less than the complete disdain and vitriol white basketball fans have for Duke. There's no comparison. The Duke and UNC hatred stems far more from where the two institutions and programs are alike, not where they are different.

I could not agree more.

Usually, when I hear a Duke hater call us a bunch of "pasty white boys," it's from another white guy. Strangely, some of the people I've heard this from don't associate at all with blacks or other minorities in real life. (Think: Wal-Mart UNC fans.) I can't figure it out.

It's funny, I know a guy who went to my high school and graduated from UNC, and he keeps this blog on UNC basketball (which is pretty stupid, by the way, as literally half of it is devoted to Ol' Roy's neckties), and one of his posts included a rant on how Duke was populated with the aforementioned "pasty white boys."

The funny thing was that this kid was VERY much like what people perceive to be the typical Duke student - an upper-middle class well-educated white male. The only difference was that he was wearing that other shade of blue.

I know a lot of people that went to UNC, and to be quite honest, the overall "aura" of their student body is not very different from Duke's. The discrepancy between them and the Wal-Mart fans is something I've never been able to reconcile...though both segments of the fanbase do hate Duke for having "pasty white boys" on the team, even though their own school is full of them.

[sagegrouse]

I could not agree more.

Usually, when I hear a Duke hater call us a bunch of "pasty white boys," it's usually from another white guy. Strangely, some of the people I've heard this from don't associate at all with blacks or other minorities in real life. (Think: Wal-Mart UNC fans.) I can't figure it out.

It's funny, I know a guy who went to my high school and graduated from UNC, and he keeps this blog on UNC basketball (which is pretty stupid, by the way, as literally half of it is devoted to Ol' Roy's neckties), and one of his posts included a rant on how Duke was populated with the aforementioned "pasty white boys."

The funny thing was that this kid was VERY much like what people perceive to be the typical Duke student - an upper-middle class well-educated white male. The only difference was that he was wearing that other shade of blue.

.

No surprise here. Most hating on the Internet and elsewhere seem to be an expression of self-hatred. Surely there is some honorable shrink on the Board who can help explain why.

sagegrouse

[tecumseh]

In fairness I see a lot of the other side of the coin. People with no connection to Duke who are BIG Duke fans. Maybe its because in this town high school basketball is HUGE and the local team is the Blue Devils.

Sundays game had me too nervous to watch so kept recording and went out to walk the dogs, near the end of the game. A dozen block later I hear a tremendous cheer coming from a house I am walking by and I think, are Duke haters really THAT passionate? probably not. Sure enough it was some Duke lovers and seeing that I know every Dukie in town these folks I am sure had no direct connection with Duke.

[RockLobster]

In fairness I see a lot of the other side of the coin. People with no connection to Duke who are BIG Duke fans. Maybe its because in this town high school basketball is HUGE and the local team is the Blue Devils.

Sundays game had me too nervous to watch so kept recording and went out to walk the dogs, near the end of the game. A dozen block later I hear a tremendous cheer coming from a house I am walking by and I think, are Duke haters really THAT passionate? probably not. Sure enough it was some Duke lovers and seeing that I know every Dukie in town these folks I am sure had no direct connection with Duke.

I don't deny that we have a lot of fans with no connection with the school as well. However, as a neutral observer (growing up in rural NC LONG before I cared about college sports at all), these sorts of Duke fans were made in a very different mold than Wal-Mart Carolina fans. I don't want to go into specifics, but most of the Duke fans didn't seem to walk out of a stereotype catalog.

[devildownunder]

I agree it is the "get a life" white fans that have the most vitriol for Duke.
I might have sick sense of humor but my dream finish is for Duke to beat darling Butler on Monday night on a bad call. Like Butler scores the go ahead field goal with a second left and it is waved off as a charge. It would be great.

LOL!

[Richard Berg]

I've seen/heard this from enough white fans to start thinking that this is true for a lot of people. I don't understand why it's the case and the implications for how some fans who react this way perceive/feel about black basketball players are troubling to me so I wish I weren't starting to have the ring of truth to it.

That's an easy one. Your average fan/hater latches onto guards for the same reason he singles out middle-class whiteys in the first place: fantasy. Sports aren't just a game. They're a form of escapism, of imagination. The modern Olympics are a perfect example: among its founders' explicit hopes was that nations could compete vicariously on the track & field instead of the physical battlefield. And for the most part, we do just that. (I'm sure plenty of humanities papers have been written on the subject...) The country swells with pride whenever we win medals, even though "we" did nothing of the sort -- a few extremely rare individuals did.

However, the ridiculous prowess of today's athletes can sometimes be too overwhelming. Few people honestly believe they could just waltz their way into Olympic weightlifting given a few lucky breaks. Not coincidentally, the most physically demanding sports are the ones whose fantasy leagues/games have exploded in popularity. Even in the world of imagination, roles like GM and QB are a much more plausible fit for the average guy. Meanwhile, the phrase "Monday morning nose tackle" is unlikely to join our sports lexicon.

Back to college basketball. We've established that people like to live vicariously through the athletic accomplishments of others. The more closely you identify with the athlete, the stronger these feelings get. Nobody is surprised when you root for your alma mater, your hometown pro franchise, or your World Cup team. It's obvious to me that similar effects are going to be felt when athletes look like you; human emotions are tribal and shallow, period, no apology needed. (Keep in mind we're not talking about preference per se, but rather identity...though the former probably comes into play at times.)

Some of that will naturally come from things like skin color and speech patterns. Having acknowledged race, I'd then argue that overall physique (height, musculature, etc) can play an equally big role in your subconscious determination of "familiar" -- that scrawny little PG looks just like the kid from next door you used to dominate, doesn't he? Likewise when our brains reach for the label of "other" -- witness the weird hate/fetish surrounding female ballers who don't line up with traditional feminine beauty norms.

One of those reactions elevates the casual fan back to his pleasant fantasy world, where he could take JJ's place if only he'd spent a couple extra hours in high school working on his 3-point shot. If he's otherwise inclined to root for Duke, it's a fun feeling; if not, the "personal" connection just adds fuel to the fire.

The opposite reaction is a visceral reminder those athletes on TV are operating in a whole other universe that bears no relation to Mr. Fanboy's playground/YMCA game, regardless of his race/height/looks. Someone mentioned Dwight Howard earlier. One look at his shirtless body should snap people out of the illusion that what happens on an NBA court has anything whatsoever to do with them or their egocentric fandom. Put simply, it's hard to summon the requisite hatorade for an opponent you know -- both rationally and subconsciously -- you could never ever beat.

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To be clear, I don't want to take anything away from fans who can:
- enjoy the game of basketball for its own sake, happy to analyze X's & O's without regard for who the symbols might represent on a given night
- admire LeBron (or whoever) as a sheer physical specimen, willing and able to put his body in peak condition, quite apart from whatever role he plays in the entertainment business
- admire Jordan (or whoever) for his competitive spirit, mental toughness, etc no matter where they are applied
- admire K (or whoever) for instilling leadership, teamwork, and discipline, whatever the arena

On the contrary; I love it when people can really break down the areas they're passionate about. For better or worse, I think we have more such folks here on DBR than they do back in the ESPN studio...

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Someone used to write "everyone hates everyone else's little white point guard" in their signature here. I even thought the phrase had made it into T-beard's HPR, but alas I was wrong. The topic does come up far too often though; probably belongs in the HPR after all.

[DukeCO2009]

Pat Forde