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Thread: The rivalry...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Atlanta, GA/Durham, NC

    The rivalry...

    It seems that a few of the folks on the board can't get past the last few years of the rivalry of Duke vs. Carolina. What many of you need to know is that this has been going on for years. There are even a few folks who say that Dean retired b/c he couldn't keep up with K anymore (you don't hear that much anymore however).

    This rivalry takes many twists and turns but it shall always have three things - talent, respect, and hatred.

    Please update and educate yourselves b/c the good times shall continue to roll.

    See the big names. See the big losses. See the injuries. See the link - please - for some perspective.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolin...93Duke_rivalry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Good post.

    Every rivalry has its ups and downs. Michigan is in the middle of a nasty downturn in their football rivalry with Ohio State.

    This too shall pass. Yes, Carolina has owned us lately. They have owned us in recruiting, in head-to-head and in hardware. It's a hard pill to swallow.

    But we'll get back there. Heck, this might even be the year when we sweep Kerlina for the first time since 2004! And soon, maybe not this season or the next, we'll be reliving those days when Jason Evans is pining for Carolina to be a quality team again so the rivalry will feel a little more competitive.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Indiana
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    It seems that a few of the folks on the board can't get past the last few years of the rivalry of Duke vs. Carolina. What many of you need to know is that this has been going on for years. There are even a few folks who say that Dean retired b/c he couldn't keep up with K anymore (you don't hear that much anymore however).

    This rivalry takes many twists and turns but it shall always have three things - talent, respect, and hatred.

    Please update and educate yourselves b/c the good times shall continue to roll.

    See the big names. See the big losses. See the injuries. See the link - please - for some perspective.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolin...93Duke_rivalry
    I certainly expect Duke and Carolina to be elite college basketball programs in the foreseeable future because of the current coaching staffs. However, past performance does not guarantee future returns.

    Yes, the balance of power between Duke and unc has cycled in more recent years, but that was due to particular events and situations, not some metaphysical inevitability of the Duke/carolina rivalry.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Smile

    completely agree...I remember the later Dean Smith years...where I was feeling much of how I imagine yall are feeling now...this rivalry is too competitive to be one sided for too long...and as much as I hate and wish I know Duke will be back ... I mean even when Carolina clearly had edge in talent the past few years the games were always coming down to the final minutes...with Duke even winning some games they probably shouldn't have if you just isolated talent...that is why this is the greatest rivalry in all of sports not just the south but in all of sports!...hold on Dukies you will be back...whether I like it or not...trust me Ive been through worse times than you are experiencing right now...i.e. Matt Doherty
    Last edited by Carolina_Blue; 11-19-2009 at 12:16 PM. Reason: unknown error

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JG Nothing View Post
    Yes, the balance of power between Duke and unc has cycled in more recent years, but that was due to particular events and situations, not some metaphysical inevitability of the Duke/carolina rivalry.
    It has always cycled, since the beginning of time*. That's SupaDave's point.



    * -- at least since the 1950s; I don't really know much of the history before that...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    It has always cycled, since the beginning of time*. That's SupaDave's point.



    * -- at least since the 1950s; I don't really know much of the history before that...
    Well, there's also the issue of Planck time. If quantum physics is correct we'll never know what happened in the first 10^-43 second after the universe began. [/dork]

  7. #7
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    Feb 2008
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    Mizzou, post-Quin
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina_Blue View Post
    completely agree...I remember the later Dean Smith years...where I was feeling much of how I imagine yall are feeling now...this rivalry is too competitive to be one sided for too long...and as much as I hate and wish I know Duke will be back ... I mean even when Carolina clearly had edge in talent the past few years the games were always coming down to the final minutes...with Duke even winning some games they probably shouldn't have if you just isolated talent...that is why this is the greatest rivalry in all of sports not just the south but in all of sports!...hold on Dukies you will be back...whether I like it or not...trust me Ive been through worse times than you are experiencing right now...i.e. Matt Doherty
    I'm a little curious as to which later Dean years you're referring to. Was it the '97 Final Four or the '95 Final Four?

    Al Featherston had a series of articles posted here last year that were a fantastic comparison:
    http://www.accsports.com/articles/20...--part-1--.php

    Unfortunately, you have to be a subscriber to read them now, but he compared how long it took both Dean and K to get things started, and then spoke of critics claiming that the game had passed Smith by before 1993. It sounds a little familiar now. And Duke certainly had it's own Doherty-esque worse times. A coaching change can do that to a team.

    What's great about this rivalry is its longevity. Once Carolina surpassed N.C. State as the premiere program in the ACC, no team could sustain a challenge. Of course there were down years or down stretches, and other teams had their moments (David Thompson, Ralph Sampson), but no other team could stay at, or near, the top spot for as long as Carolina has... except Duke. The hatred comes from many factors, but the rivalry comes from both programs' sustained excellence and the ability of both to bounce back from adversity.

    From a purely objective () view, I am very curious to see what happens when Coach K retires... to see if Duke "bounces back" from the adversity of losing a Hall of Fame coach, or to see if the wins and the greatness were just a trend. A thirty (forty?) year trend, but a trend, none-the-less.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoutingncu View Post
    I'm a little curious as to which later Dean years you're referring to. Was it the '97 Final Four or the '95 Final Four?

    Al Featherston had a series of articles posted here last year that were a fantastic comparison:
    http://www.accsports.com/articles/20...--part-1--.php

    Unfortunately, you have to be a subscriber to read them now, but he compared how long it took both Dean and K to get things started, and then spoke of critics claiming that the game had passed Smith by before 1993. It sounds a little familiar now. And Duke certainly had it's own Doherty-esque worse times. A coaching change can do that to a team.

    What's great about this rivalry is its longevity. Once Carolina surpassed N.C. State as the premiere program in the ACC, no team could sustain a challenge. Of course there were down years or down stretches, and other teams had their moments (David Thompson, Ralph Sampson), but no other team could stay at, or near, the top spot for as long as Carolina has... except Duke. The hatred comes from many factors, but the rivalry comes from both programs' sustained excellence and the ability of both to bounce back from adversity.

    From a purely objective () view, I am very curious to see what happens when Coach K retires... to see if Duke "bounces back" from the adversity of losing a Hall of Fame coach, or to see if the wins and the greatness were just a trend. A thirty (forty?) year trend, but a trend, none-the-less.
    You are a smug little hole aren't you. You got that in common with dean.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoutingncu View Post
    From a purely objective () view, I am very curious to see what happens when Coach K retires... to see if Duke "bounces back" from the adversity of losing a Hall of Fame coach, or to see if the wins and the greatness were just a trend. A thirty (forty?) year trend, but a trend, none-the-less.
    The good thing about this comment is that Duke's coaching tree will be far more experienced than UNC's was when Dean stepped down.

    Many don't remember but ONE of the reasons he stepped down was to give his homeboy Guthridge a shot at the full-time gig.

    Dean stepped down right before the 1997-1998 season and his last few teams had been far from dominant. Add in Tim Duncan and a Wake Forest team Dean couldn't handle and a Duke team with a young coach breathing down his neck - Old Dean was feeling the pressure.

    Guthridge doesn't (or didn't) do much recruiting b/c of the way things happened and hence the tide turned - quickly. Since 1997 only one other team not named Duke or UNC has won the ACC...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina_Blue View Post
    Ive been through worse times than you are experiencing right now...i.e. Matt Doherty
    Ahhhh.......the good old days....

  11. #11
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    Many don't remember but ONE of the reasons he stepped down was to give his homeboy Guthridge a shot at the full-time gig.

    Dean stepped down right before the 1997-1998 season and his last few teams had been far from dominant.
    Wait, what?

    Dean's last few teams were plenty dominant, with three Final Fours and one national championship in his last five years.

  12. #12
    this seems like an appropriate place to share this website someone shared with me:

    www.dukerejects.com
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    Wait, what?

    Dean's last few teams were plenty dominant, with three Final Fours and one national championship in his last five years.
    Dominant and successful are two different things. I know you like to argue - but geez! One of those years UNC had double digit losses and it was on the back end - not the front. As a matter of fact there are some that would argue that UNC was consistently given easy passes to the Final Four in Dean's years - playing regional cupcakes well into the sweet 16 (Duke has dealt with the same criticism ironically).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SupaDave View Post
    The good thing about this comment is that Duke's coaching tree will be far more experienced than UNC's was when Dean stepped down.

    Many don't remember but ONE of the reasons he stepped down was to give his homeboy Guthridge a shot at the full-time gig.

    Dean stepped down right before the 1997-1998 season and his last few teams had been far from dominant. Add in Tim Duncan and a Wake Forest team Dean couldn't handle and a Duke team with a young coach breathing down his neck - Old Dean was feeling the pressure.

    Guthridge doesn't (or didn't) do much recruiting b/c of the way things happened and hence the tide turned - quickly. Since 1997 only one other team not named Duke or UNC has won the ACC...
    And stepped down at the right time (early October) so UNC-CH really didn't have any other choice then to let Gut take over...

  15. #15
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    Boca Grande Florida
    Here's my take on the rivalry in one word....

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Here's my take on the rivalry in one word....
    OK, that is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time... WOW!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by shoutingncu View Post

    From a purely objective () view, I am very curious to see what happens when Coach K retires... to see if Duke "bounces back" from the adversity of losing a Hall of Fame coach, or to see if the wins and the greatness were just a trend. A thirty (forty?) year trend, but a trend, none-the-less.
    Thirty or 40 years is not a trend. See this is exactly the type of arrogant, condescending crude that makes me loathe Tar Heels. You want to discuss the rivalry based on the past 5 year success of Roy Williams, but K's 30-40 years is a “trend”... unbelievable!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnavy View Post
    Thirty or 40 years is not a trend. See this is exactly the type of arrogant, condescending crude that makes me loathe Tar Heels. You want to discuss the rivalry based on the past 5 year success of Roy Williams, but K's 30-40 years is a “trend”... unbelievable!
    I apologize. I guess it was the "trend, none-the-less" part of my original post that, upon re-reading, sounds like I believed what I was typing. Of course it's a ridiculous notion, and I had hoped that it was so ridiculous that my intent was obvious. Duke was "trending" toward greatness before Coach K... maybe not immediately before him, but certainly on the whole. So I do, honestly and sincerely, apologize for mis-representing my beliefs.

    I was merely looking forward to (from an objective basketball fan point-of-view, of course ) seeing what happens when Coach Krzyzewski steps down. Much like I am interested to see how Carolina handles things when Ol' Roy does the same.

    Now, on the 5 year success part, I do take issue, but that's for another post.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by shoutingncu View Post
    I apologize. I guess it was the "trend, none-the-less" part of my original post that, upon re-reading, sounds like I believed what I was typing. Of course it's a ridiculous notion, and I had hoped that it was so ridiculous that my intent was obvious. Duke was "trending" toward greatness before Coach K... maybe not immediately before him, but certainly on the whole. So I do, honestly and sincerely, apologize for mis-representing my beliefs.

    I was merely looking forward to (from an objective basketball fan point-of-view, of course ) seeing what happens when Coach Krzyzewski steps down. Much like I am interested to see how Carolina handles things when Ol' Roy does the same.

    Now, on the 5 year success part, I do take issue, but that's for another post.
    Apology accepted.

    I have thought about the same question. What will happen when K retires? It is a scary thing for me to think about, but it will happen eventually. I expect that he will have a plan in place long before he steps down. Make no mistake, I believe that K will hand select his successor, much like Dean did.
    Who that may be is a good question. A lot will depend on how the "family coaching tree" does, but if I had to guess I would say JD is the prime candidate.

    I have spoken with a number of UNC fans that were very upset with the way UNC handled Dean's or rather Gutridge's retirement. More than a few true Heel fans were upset with how Matt was handled, and the lack of support given him. That is a huge topic and one I do not know very much about, so that is all I will say about that.

    I will say that right now if both Roy and K left, I would say Duke has the advantage as far as the respective coaching tree's go, who does UNC have out there (in the family) that would be considered?

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Randleman,NC

    Question

    completely agree...I remember the later Dean Smith years...where I was feeling much of how I imagine yall are feeling now...this rivalry is too competitive to be one sided for too long...and as much as I hate and wish I know Duke will be back ... I mean even when Carolina clearly had edge in talent the past few years the games were always coming down to the final minutes...with Duke even winning some games they probably shouldn't have if you just isolated talent...that is why this is the greatest rivalry in all of sports not just the south but in all of sports!...hold on Dukies you will be back...whether I like it or not...trust me Ive been through worse times than you are experiencing right now...i.e. Matt Doherty
    Wow i did'nt know we where experiencing hard times now!!Why do Tar Heel fans seem to think it's all about them

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