Barnes to UNC

[BobbyFan]

I'm disappointed that we didn't get Barnes, but this recruiting battle wasn't anywhere near as important as all the attention would suggest.

First, and probably most obvious, high school recruiting is far from an exact science. There are multiple examples, including our own, of top 3 recruits that fell well short of expectations.

Next, the importance of landing a top recruit isn't what it was 20 years ago. Now, either the recruit fulfills his potential and leaves in a year, or becomes somewhat of a disappointment and stays longer. In the current environment, the player who has the most impact on a program is one who is an excellent college player, but isn't considered a top NBA pick, and stays in school for 3 or 4 years. Incidentally, we have one of those players on our team right now.

The goal is to win games and win championships. We did the former last night. I'll admit I used to follow recruiting intensely in the 90s, until I found it silly how weak a correlation there was between my excitement/disappointment over a 17 year-old kid's decision and the end result it actually wound up having on our program. Now, I only get involved in the games themselves and I think it's much better that way.

[jipops]

Just catching up but other than Pierce, and that was at Kansas about 12 years ago, who was the last NBA superstart Roy developed? We can nickle and dime each of the players he has had as say he hasn't developed each to their full NBA potential. Let's name some of them.

May - bust?
McCants - bust?
Felton - nice solid PG
Marvin - nice rotation forward
Lawson - early reports state solild PG potential
Ellington - borderline rotation guard
Hanbrough - solid rotation forward

I may be missing someone over the years Roy has been at UNC but that isn't NBA superstar material in my book. Prior to UNC, other than Hinrich, I can't remember a KU player either this decade (correct me if I am wrong). What's the difference between Deng, G, JJ, Shane, Dahntay, Shav and Sheldon compared to them? I can't argue his coaching ability, the success with UNC and it's championships but to say Roy produces better NBA players compared to Coach K is a myth.

I have never bought the argument that certain coaches do and don't prepare players for the NBA. The whole discussion about who produces NBA players really is ridiculous. Did Tom Crean produce Dwayne Wade? Did Dave Odom produce Tim Duncan? Did Skip Prosser produce Chris Paul? If a player becomes a star in the league it is more than likely that player just has the ability to do so. Ofcourse coaches help, but there are certain facets of the NBA game required that no coach is simply going to add-on to a player. I do believe some coaches help prepare a player for NBA life and both K and Roy are two that do a great job of it. But if a player comes in with immense talent, it generally doesn't matter where he goes to school. If that player has the drive to keep getting better, then he'll be very successful. Does anybody really think Barnes would have a lesser NBA career if he had just stayed in Iowa? I'd say no.

Over the next few years Roy will likely have more productive pros placed in the NBA than anyone else. The reason for this is simple. He's got more talent going through the program than everyone else. Kudos to him.

[Pernell]

Good points all around man. I would agree; the Crazies should just be silent when he is announced. I think that would be hilarious. And quite frankly, I understand why we all are disappointed, but let's stop crying over this one recruit. We are Duke(I guess I'm getting a little obnoxious) and why cry over something we can't change. We got Kyrie but didn't get HB, so the Duke staff must be doing something right.

Yes, I think the vast majority of us are really cool but it's always fun to needle my Tarheel friends and tell them that their recruits go there because UNC is not as rigorous. It's always in good fun and always draws a sharp reaction.

[NSDukeFan]

Well, sure enough, the sun did come up this morning.

Especially after a great start to the season.

Your guess would be wrong. As I listed, we whiffed on our top targets for those years i.e., Boynton, Barnes, Monroe, Patterson.

Pretty self-assured towards a respected poster for someone without a whole lot of proof, IMO.

Well why did UCLA not get Barnes? They are as relevant as any team in recent memory getting to the FF- including UNC? And they have a track record of creating some outstanding young pros. What about Florida- with as many national championships as UNC in the last few years? Or Kansas? The point is that there are many places to go. This kid's family grew up watching Jordan- they had a chance to send their kid to Jordan's college and by the way- UNC is good. This is about more than getting to the FF.

So, you are saying there are other schools that didn't get Harrison as well? I agree we can't get them all. Even Roy and Calimari can't

Barnes will say to himself...

"I shoulda gone to Duke..."

hud

Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever happen. Most people try to make the best of their situation rather than dwell on what ifs after the fact.

Just catching up but other than Pierce, and that was at Kansas about 12 years ago, who was the last NBA superstart Roy developed? We can nickle and dime each of the players he has had as say he hasn't developed each to their full NBA potential. ...
I can't argue his coaching ability, the success with UNC and it's championships but to say Roy produces better NBA players compared to Coach K is a myth.

I agree with your last point, but would not say that Roy does a poor job of producing NBA stars. Roy, just like K, sends a lot of players to the pros. I don't think that college coaches necessarily are the reason that pros later become superstars or not.

IMO, you're wrong. I don't remember reading about Napolean saying what a great battle Waterloo was or Japan saying how great WWII was. We lost again and that sucks.

I believe the previous poster's point was that yesterday our record was 1-0. We did not lose a single game on the court (where the games are actually played) yesterday.

This is ludicrous, distinguishing front court players from back court players in your racist observations. Well, we have done well with left-handed African-American players from Tennessee, or African-American thespians from New Jersey, is that relevant?

Nope, I say give him the silent treatment. It sounds like he wants the thrill of playing in Cameron. Let's deprive him. Boo the heels like crazie, but when HB is introduced or is on the line: silence. If he doesn't want the Duke experience, he shouldn't get to enjoy it when visiting.

I love the first point here I highlighted and thought this second point was a great idea. Who knows if it will be used, but it made sense to me. He will get to see how difficult it can be to win in Cameron, though.

Sorry if this post is long, I just figured out how to use multi-quote and got too excited.

One other point: After watching Olek start last night and play well, would there be any room for the one who shall no longer be named to play next year? I like the guys we have and last night was a great start to the season.

[ArtVandelay]

Sometimes the answer is the simplest one. Barnes said he wants to make progress on a business degree. Can't do that at Duke, but he can at Carolina. Not that this explains all of it or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of it, especially given his comments about how UNC had a good academic "plan" for him. Combine a great academic school with 2 national titles in the past 5 years or so, and it's not hard to figure out why he liked UNC.

Personally, I'd buy this explanation before other paranoid theories out there about how Duke can't recruit black "front court" players (notice how "can't recruit big men" has turned into "can't recruit black front court players," even though Barnes is a swingman).

[rotogod00]

Especially after a great start to the season.

Pretty self-assured towards a respected poster for someone without a whole lot of proof, IMO.

So, you are saying there are other schools that didn't get Harrison as well? I agree we can't get them all. Even Roy and Calimari can't

Unfortunately, I doubt this will ever happen. Most people try to make the best of their situation rather than dwell on what ifs after the fact.

I agree with your last point, but would not say that Roy does a poor job of producing NBA stars. Roy, just like K, sends a lot of players to the pros. I don't think that college coaches necessarily are the reason that pros later become superstars or not.

I believe the previous poster's point was that yesterday our record was 1-0. We did not lose a single game on the court (where the games are actually played) yesterday.


I love the first point here I highlighted and thought this second point was a great idea. Who knows if it will be used, but it made sense to me. He will get to see how difficult it can be to win in Cameron, though.

Sorry if this post is long, I just figured out how to use multi-quote and got too excited.

One other point: After watching Olek start last night and play well, would there be any room for the one who shall no longer be named to play next year? I like the guys we have and last night was a great start to the season.

seriously?

[soccerstud2210]

bottom line:

this kills. but we have a decently solid team THIS year. can't focus on what could have been. i have a bunch of michigan buddies and they always talk about the fab 5 and what could have been if webber didnt call a timeout. fact is, he DID. nothing they or he can do to change that.

we lost barnes. and ya that sucks. a lot. especially because it was to our nemesis. frankly i would have had him go ANYWHERE but unc-ch, but he DIDNT. we have a chance to have a solid team THIS year and NEXT year. we looked decent last night with nolan and mason. thats awesome...

the season has started. let's get to it!!!!!

go duke!!!!

[sandinmyshoes]

the Crazies should just be silent when he is announced. I think that would be hilarious..

I think a sinister collective "Welcome back, Mr. Barnes." followed by an evil genius mmmwaaa ha ha laugh would be perfect.

[stillcrazie]

One thing that helped me get over this a bit is that the announcers on Sports Night (cable channel 14) who are normally pretty pro-Carolina were quite harsh on the way Barnes handled his commitment via skype. They noted that not only was it over the top, it was immature and arrogant of him to use words like "legacy" to describe his future career at UNC. Maybe this guy wasn't such a perfect fit for Duke after all.

I still woke up in a cold sweat during the night, don't get me wrong.

[dukemsu]

One thing that helped me get over this a bit is that the announcers on Sports Night (cable channel 14) who are normally pretty pro-Carolina were quite harsh on the way Barnes handled his commitment via skype. They noted that not only was it over the top, it was immature and arrogant of him to use words like "legacy" to describe his future career at UNC. Maybe this guy wasn't such a perfect fit for Duke after all.

I still woke up in a cold sweat during the night, don't get me wrong.

I thought the same thing. It wasn't as bad as Jimmy Clausen announcing his decision to attend Notre Dame via stretch Hummer limo at the College Football Hall of Fame, but there was a degree of self-imposed pomposity about the proceedings.

Funny. Which school is usually associated with being pompous by the national media? Not UNC.

dukemsu

[TallMan]

One thing that helped me get over this a bit is that the announcers on Sports Night (cable channel 14) who are normally pretty pro-Carolina were quite harsh on the way Barnes handled his commitment via skype. They noted that not only was it over the top, it was immature and arrogant of him to use words like "legacy" to describe his future career at UNC. Maybe this guy wasn't such a perfect fit for Duke after all.

I still woke up in a cold sweat during the night, don't get me wrong.

Dave Telep's tweet from right before the announcement yesterday said "No advance calls to coaches." Thus, I assume, K (as well as the other coaches) found out about HB's decision the same way I did. This surprises me, given all that I've read about Barnes over the past two years...

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

Sometimes the answer is the simplest one. Barnes said he wants to make progress on a business degree. Can't do that at Duke, but he can at Carolina. Not that this explains all of it or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of it, especially given his comments about how UNC had a good academic "plan" for him. Combine a great academic school with 2 national titles in the past 5 years or so, and it's not hard to figure out why he liked UNC.

How do you figure UNC is a "great academic school"?! Duke is ranked among the top 10 universities in the country; UNC is not even ranked among the top 25. Duke is ranked among the top 15 universities in the world; UNC is not even ranked among the top 100. Duke has led the ACC in most student-athletes on the ACC Honor Roll for 21 of the past 22 years, including a streak of 20 straight years. Duke led the ACC in most basketball players on the ACC Honor Roll (7), while UNC only placed 4. UNC accepts community college and "online class" credits; Duke does not.

It's VERY insulting for people to put UNC's "academics" in the same breath as Duke's. I guess Barnes wasn't as serious about getting a "great education" as he claimed...

[stillcrazie]

Clearly you missed the point to which my post replied to.

I agree with your point. I think I just object to your word choice. I honestly don't think academics had much if anything to do with his decision.

[MChambers]

Jordan's old nice, family guy bit was exposed as a fraud years ago, but people don't care. That hall of fame speech this year should have earned him a place in the Barry Bonds Arrogance Hall of Fame, but ESPN blabbered on and on about how great it was.

People love the guy. Although they've tired of him a bit here in Chicago, where they knew his bit years ago.

dukemsu

If you think folks are tired of him in Chicago, imagine what many think in Washington, D.C.

I'll take Grant Hill, Elton Brand, or Shane Battier over 10 Jordans. I know that may not be what some recruits think, however . . .

[YourLandlord]

So you're saying that current ballers all have "pottery" majors?

uh, what?

[rotogod00]

uh, what?

didn't you imply barnes wouldn't be able to cut it playing ball and being an econ. major at the same time?

if not, my bad

if yes, then what i was saying is that i guess there are no econ. majors on the current team. and i there are, then why can they do both, but you don't believe barnes can hack it?

[eightyearoldsdude]

As apoplectic and angry as you are at UNC now, you're going to be absolutely suicidal when MSU gets beat by UNC.

Let it go. Its recruiting, not real life.

On the positive side, Duke will beat Wisconsin alot worse than UNC will beat Izzo.

Heel fan here and not sure if it's safe to come out yet, but I really don't think UNC is going to beat MSU. Right now, the frosh mostly look like frosh, and even some of the sophomores look like frosh. MSU, on the other hand is a final four favorite and will be looking for revenge.

[rotogod00]

Heel fan here and not sure if it's safe to come out yet, but I really don't think UNC is going to beat MSU. Right now, the frosh mostly look like frosh, and even some of the sophomores look like frosh. MSU, on the other hand is a final four favorite and will be looking for revenge.

hey eightyyearold,

after reading comments from his mom and a picture that was apparently taken at the time, the consensus around here is that barnes was essentially a unc commit right after williams' in-home visit weeks ago. is that your take?

[ChicagoHeel]

I'm with those of you who argue that too much is being made of one recruit's decision. You never know how things will work out once the player is on the court and perceptions change faster than most of us appreciate. In the SI Vault Section, there was recently a long article that lauded Duke's 2005 recruiting class, I think it was called the "The Duke Way"; it made Duke sound frighteningly good. Reading it I was surprised by how logical and yet completely wrong it turned out to be- and by how it feels like the distant past, even though it was only four years ago. Things can change quickly.

As to why HB chose UNC, I t hink it's pretty easy. If you were forced to bet something really valuable to you , like your job or your house, on which of the teams on Barnes' list would make a Final Four in the 2-3 years Barnes could potentially play, which would you choose?

Playing in the Final Four is the best way for a college player to enhance NBA credentials, not that Barnes needs that, and assure a legacy in the college game, which he indicated in his press conference yesterday is of importance. He would get a good education and a chance to demonstrate his considerable skill at any of the schools on his list, but I would wager that he's guessing UNC will play the most NCAA tournament games. Someone with HB's talent and obvious love of the spotlight (a televised ceremony to sign a letter of intent involving a Skype call?!?) wants to play on the biggest stage and, at least based on records over the last 4-5 years, UNC appears the school most likely to give him that opportunity. Bottom line, I agree with those who say that this recruiting loss does not reflect poorly on Coach K's recruiting effort or any other aspect of the Duke University and that the best way to win off the court is to first win on it.

[Exiled_Devil]

Well then he's .... At Duke you actually have to learn something in a real field (i.e., Economics). He wouldn't be able to hack it while also playing ball.

That is a pathetic, derogatory post. Outside of your tone and language, here's the reality:

Studying business is more than studying economics. For someone who will be managing a multi-million dollar personal brand, business is a more logical choice than economics because business includes marketing, management and finance, not just macro and micro economic theories.

Get over yourself. This recruit may have hurt you, but UNC is not the local community college. UNC has a top-20 undergrad business school. Stop insulting him for making a choice you don't agree with.