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  1. #21
    I got 81-72 tracking the play by play thread

    Assuming that play by play is accurate, some interesting +/- by player:

    These 3 players had worse +/- than UNC average, a couple way below the average

    -22 Henson
    -19 Zeller
    -15 Strickland

    These players were at the -12 team average

    -12 Ginyard
    -12 Davis
    -12 Graves

    ------------------

    These guys were better than the average some by quite a bit:

    -8 Watts
    -6 D Wear
    -4 Thompson
    -2 Campbell

    -4 Drew II (different than I expected from what I had read above)
    +8 McDonald
    + 8 T Wear

    It could be that the UNC subs were matched with Vandy subs but only bright side is play of UNC subs, the twins who every one had written off this year.

    Except for Deon who scored 16 and was only -4 +/-, the UNC Big man play was particularly disappointing especially since Australian Ogilvy did not play due to a concussion.

    Even though Strickland scored 13 his +/- was -15, which sounds bad but is only -3 worse than the average. Same for Zeller who scored 8 but +/- was -19 (-7 worse than average) and Henson who only scored 3 had +/- of -22 (-10 worse than average).

    Davis was next highest scorer @ 8 points and was on the UNC average of -12 +/-.

    POG for UNC was Travis Wear who scored 6 points and was +8 +/-

    Could not tell who the 5th UNC starter was, but he was +5, possibly Graves since other 4 Drew II, Ginyard, Deon and Davis plus Henson were mentioned at first sub.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC
    [QUOTE=ACCBBallFan;326678]I got 81-72 tracking the play by play thread


    -22 Henson
    -19 Zeller
    -15 Strickland


    Even though Strickland scored 13 his +/- was -15, which sounds bad but is only -3 worse than the average.

    Maybe that -15 was an indication of just how bad strickland played and that was the reason ole roy was screaming at him. Go Duke!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    That team did not have a dominant point guard -- freshman Bobby Frasier handled the job, but he wasn't really a point guard and he didn't have the explosive athleticism of Felton or Lawson. They weren't a dominant team that year, but they did alright.

    I guess in summary, I'm saying that while some of the national perceptions of UNC seem to be inflated, I wouldn't swing too far the other way and think that they are going to be mediocre.
    Well, I'm guessing if this year's UNC team goes 23-8 and gets knocked out in the Sweet 16 (like the 2005-06 group did), a lot of Heel fans would call that "mediocre." The ones who hadn't jumped off bridges, anyway.

  4. #24

    Unc '06

    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Well, I'm guessing if this year's UNC team goes 23-8 and gets knocked out in the Sweet 16 (like the 2005-06 group did), a lot of Heel fans would call that "mediocre." The ones who hadn't jumped off bridges, anyway.
    Actually, UNC lost to George Mason in the second round of the 06 NCAA Tournament. They didn't make the Sweet 16.

  5. #25
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    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Actually, UNC lost to George Mason in the second round of the 06 NCAA Tournament. They didn't make the Sweet 16.
    Even better. But the point I was trying to make is that a season like that would be considered mediocre by UNC (or Duke) standards. Especially when their fans (and apparently some polls) seem to think they are a top 4 team.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Well, I'm guessing if this year's UNC team goes 23-8 and gets knocked out in the Sweet 16 (like the 2005-06 group did), a lot of Heel fans would call that "mediocre." The ones who hadn't jumped off bridges, anyway.
    As long as those 8 include three losses to Duke, I will be extremely happy!

    To bad they don't host Clemson, this could have been the year!

    I will root for and relish each carolina loss, but I am mostly indifferent. I don't dislike the players now that the egos of Lawson and Hans and Dancin' Danny are gone. Ginyard is an arse, but insignificant. Davis, Drew, Thompson, Graves, and Zeller, actually the rest of the team, don't seem easy to root against (except for their extraordinary awful taste in uniform color).

    I do look forward to seeing ol' roy cry as he defends his team after a bad loss, maybe even drop another F-bomb, which, dadgummit, he never does.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    CA
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Roy Williams offense requires a dominant point guard. Remember the 2005 National Championship team lost their opening game to Santa Clara when Ray Felton was suspended.

    Larry Drew isn't a dominant point guard so Carolina will struggle...at least early. The jury is out on whether or not Drew develops into a legitimate point guard, but it is clear he isn't one at this specific moment in time.
    Most if not all top programs require a dominant point guard, espcially if they have championship aspirations.
    thank god for irving!!!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by speedevil2001 View Post
    Most if not all top programs require a dominant point guard, espcially if they have championship aspirations.
    I'm sure every program, top or not, would love to have a dominant point guard. But I think some "require" them more than others. Obviously the word "dominant" is open to interpretation, but I would argue that in the eight years since Duke's last championship, the only national champions with a dominant PG were the two UNC teams.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    Over at IC a guy put up a detailed pre-season report on the Heels that is worth the time to read. Some comments and opinions will play into Duke fans pre-season preceptions, some do not.

    The writer seems to have some inside access.

    Among the more interesting statements he makes:

    "So, when you have good ball-handling post guys what do you do? You let them handle the ball. And thatís exactly what Roy is going to do with the new offense".

    "Frankly, it was stunning to see the Wears handle the ball like guards. Those are two big dudes, but they can really handle the rock. They arenít going to blow past any guards or win any Cousy awards, but I doubt there are any big guys in the country who pass and dribble as effectively as they do".


    On Henson...."If he doesnít start over Will Graves Iíll be disappointed. Based on what I saw, heís already earned it. If he does, no one will be able to handle him Ė heís a 6í9 guy with the reach of a 7í1 guy, and the skills of a 6í3 guy. Big-time player indeed".
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Over at IC a guy put up a detailed pre-season report on the Heels that is worth the time to read. Some comments and opinions will play into Duke fans pre-season preceptions, some do not.

    The writer seems to have some inside access.

    Among the more interesting statements he makes:

    "So, when you have good ball-handling post guys what do you do? You let them handle the ball. And thatís exactly what Roy is going to do with the new offense".

    "Frankly, it was stunning to see the Wears handle the ball like guards. Those are two big dudes, but they can really handle the rock. They arenít going to blow past any guards or win any Cousy awards, but I doubt there are any big guys in the country who pass and dribble as effectively as they do".


    On Henson...."If he doesnít start over Will Graves Iíll be disappointed. Based on what I saw, heís already earned it. If he does, no one will be able to handle him Ė heís a 6í9 guy with the reach of a 7í1 guy, and the skills of a 6í3 guy. Big-time player indeed".
    That description of the Wears sounds like the description of Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly. That said, I'll be surprised if the Wears see any substantive playing time this year with 4 big guys ahead of them (I assume Henson will see some time at the 4 spot).

  11. #31
    I don't want to sound like a noob, but what is the +/- thing you guys are always talking about. I've been confused ever since I joined last year!

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The City of Brotherly Love
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat/"/"/" View Post
    Over at IC a guy put up a detailed pre-season report on the Heels that is worth the time to read. Some comments and opinions will play into Duke fans pre-season preceptions, some do not.

    The writer seems to have some inside access.

    Among the more interesting statements he makes:

    "So, when you have good ball-handling post guys what do you do? You let them handle the ball. And thatís exactly what Roy is going to do with the new offense".

    "Frankly, it was stunning to see the Wears handle the ball like guards. Those are two big dudes, but they can really handle the rock. They arenít going to blow past any guards or win any Cousy awards, but I doubt there are any big guys in the country who pass and dribble as effectively as they do".


    On Henson...."If he doesnít start over Will Graves Iíll be disappointed. Based on what I saw, heís already earned it. If he does, no one will be able to handle him Ė heís a 6í9 guy with the reach of a 7í1 guy, and the skills of a 6í3 guy. Big-time player indeed".
    Spare me. When one resort to extolling the walk-ons, it's hard to take the rest seriously. Please, Roy, let the "Wears handle the ball like guards" all season long.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Hancock 4 Duke View Post
    I don't want to sound like a noob, but what is the +/- thing you guys are always talking about. I've been confused ever since I joined last year!
    It is the point differential during the time a specific player is on the court. For example, Player A plays 17 minutes and Team A outscores Team B 34 - 30 during those 17 minutes of game action. Player A would have a +/- of +4.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    Spare me. When one resort to extolling the walk-ons, it's hard to take the rest seriously. Please, Roy, let the "Wears handle the ball like guards" all season long.
    The Wear brothers are not walk-ons. They are both Top 100 recruited players.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  15. #35
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    Feb 2007
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    The City of Brotherly Love
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    The Wear brothers are not walk-ons. They are both Top 100 recruited players.
    No kidding. Read the entire post that Wheat linked.

  16. #36
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    Feb 2007
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by 77devil View Post
    No kidding. Read the entire post that Wheat linked.
    My apologies as I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were calling the Wear brothers walk ons. I didn't read the linked article.
    Bob Green
    United States Navy (Retired)
    @JBobGreen

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Boca Grande Florida
    I just passed that along because we are all starved for any news on the teams, and I thought it was an interesting read from somebody who at least seems to have seen them play. I have no idea about the poster and his credibility.

    The guy was a UNC fan, but he didn't seem to sugar coat his negative impressions.

    I question some of his opinions on the players, at least the ones I've seen.
    Wheat/"/"/"
    "An angry man catches no fish"-Zen proverb.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    I thought the most interesting part was about the "new offense". Is that for real?
    There wasn't a lot of description other than bringing the big men out to the perimeter. Other posts in the thread described it as a triangle offense, a faster Princeton, and a Duke-like motion offense - can't be all of these, obviously. In any case, seems like an odd choice if the team really can't shoot...

  19. #39
    I refuse to let a scrimmage lure me into over confidence. Refuse. Will not do it. Hopeful, okay, yes. I'll be hopeful, but based more on what we're seeing of the Devils than what UNC does (or does not do) in a scrimmage.

    Looking at that detailed report of the scrimmage, it seems that Williams was running his guys in and out of the lineup with even more frequency than he usually does. I have heard that UNC and Vandy had a second 20 minute scrimmage that UNC won, or that the score was very close depending on who was reporting it. And based on that practice report, they are trying to work on a new offense on top of everything else.

    All that said, it shows that UNC has a long way to go. That is what makes me cautiously hopeful compared to how the Devils are starting. I am still wary of the potential of that group, but I'd rather be wary of potential than worried about them out of the gate.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina

    Ginyard's comment

    Wishful thinking on my part most likely, but, if Ginyard comments on a secret scrimmage, which is supposed to be "under the radar", not publicized, no media etc., is it any sort of NCAA rules violation? I did a quick search of the NCAA website to no avail of the actual regulations.

    Also interesting to note that a lot of the predictions on the first page of this thread (other than from the UNC fan(s)) based on the results from the Vandy scrimmage were pretty accurate.

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