FB: Duke 17, Maryland 13

[watzone]

Austin Kelly talks of the win - http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/10/d...over-maryland/

[JaMarcus Russell]

My "snowflake" reference was more in response to the assumption that young people are somehow really worried about getting wet on a mild day. I know from personal experience that this is not, in general, true. I'm just sad that present Duke students don't consider watching our improving football team to qualify as a reason to put up with the rain.

True, but there are lots of parents who wouldn't want to sit in the rain for a football game, and when one's parents fly or drive hundreds of miles to get to campus, I think most kids will feel obligated to spend time with them going to Nasher or something like that instead of the game.

As for the other poster who brought up tailgate, I would guess that 1000-1200 students attend tailgate each weekend except for parent's weekend or when a home game falls on Thanksgiving or Fall Break. That leaves 5,000 undergrads and probably 5,000 grad students who aren't partying or going to the game for whatever reason (academics, sleep, general lack of interest in football, etc). Even if the number of students at the games matched the number of students at Cameron, it wouldn't look nearly as impressive because of the size of the venue.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Austin Kelly talks of the win - http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/10/d...over-maryland/

Thanks for sharing that, watzone. And thanks for bringing us back to the real point of the day: Duke won another football game!

I've noticed several players when interviewed by a various reporters before and after the Maryland game have said that remaining humble was an important part of playing this game and preparing for the next one. This recurring response suggests a theme encouraged by the coaches and embraced by our guys. Another aspect of the Duke way? Sounds like the way winners talk and act.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

I was more focused on the Foster quote.

I still think you made a big jump (and put words in his mouth - and I've never been one to defend FDA, with whom I almost always disagree). The leap from his pointing out that there was a time where a number of faculty de-emphasized athletics, to your question if he supports hiring decisions being made on support for athletics, is huge.

It certainly is possible to believe that there is value in hiring "professors who can relate to the undergrad Duke experience" as was stated later.

OK - Perhaps I was a little quick to snap at FDA - probably as the result of disagreement and frustration with his past statements.

and yes I agree that there certainly is value in hiring "professors who can relate to the undergrad Duke experience" - although as someone who teaches at a university, I know that the reality at most major research universities (which Duke is) is that in most departments, hirings and promotions are based primarily on publications and research with some weight placed on ability to teach (probably more at Duke than at my university). Hopefully professors are interested in furthering the entire undergraduate experience (i.e things beyond their classroom and lab), but unfortunately thay usually aren't rewarded for it.

[6th Man]

I've noticed several players when interviewed by a various reporters before and after the Maryland game have said that remaining humble was an important part of playing this game and preparing for the next one.

I took the kids down to the tunnel area after the win Saturday and several of the players came around the track high fiving the fans. Austin Kelly came through and was thanking folks for being there. I know I bleed Duke blue, but how many players in college football come around thanking fans like that? I really think this is a great group of kids and they are working their tails off to give us something to be excited about. Win or lose, these kids have improved tremendously and they are out there competing. They deserve way more respect and support than they are getting. Unfortunatley the very people reading this post are the ones that are out there supporting these guys. So from one fan to another...I appreciate you Duke football guys.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Win or lose, these kids have improved tremendously and they are out there competing. They deserve way more respect and support than they are getting. Unfortunatley the very people reading this post are the ones that are out there supporting these guys. So from one fan to another...I appreciate you Duke football guys.

The brunchgates continue long after the game is over, and we have started "the reverse Devil Walk" congratulating the guys on the game as they head back to their dorms. They are a bunch of impressive young men and really do seem to appreciate the support and encouragement we give them. If they're lucky, that means food as well...last time one of our brunchgaters handed them out cupcakes...ha! Some stop to talk, but all of them continue on with smiles, even if it wasn't a victory.

[cbfx3]

As stated in my earlier post I simply wish the students would come out in full force to take part in what is happening with the program. Thad and the rest of the seniors only have just a couple of home games left. These guys deserve the support of their peers. Rain or shine!

[towerview road]

I think we also need to consider that Duke has changed (even in a decade) since many of us were there.

When I was a student at Duke, football was terrible. No one went to games (nor did tailgate yet exist in its current form) - we perpetually lost and Wally Wade was always full of the opposing team's fans. My freshman year, my father, brother, and I went to the Parents' Weekend football game and my father tried to explain what football was to me (I was one of those girls who had yet to understand the concept of the downs, et. cet.) yet because the Blue Devils never made a down, it was a tad difficult. I remember several sorority sisters bringing football players as dates to a sorority function one spring and how those boys were just miserable - and not just because they were losing. I later became friends with one such player and there were several years when the students/players and the coaching staff just did not work. I don't want to betray any confidences, but, generally speaking, I give a ton of credit to those players who didn't quit the team from the late nineties to Cut's arrival. That's real sportsmanship.

I digress. . . anyways, the point of this post (and I've been reading DBR for years but I have only posted once or twice before, when I felt so moved) is that I don't think we can deny, also, that the demographics of Duke are also changing and limiting the pool of students who may be interested in football, for example. I think it would be great if more Duke students cared about football enough to show up for games, but I think it's equally important that Duke employees (everyone from housekeeping to the Victor Dzau, head of DUMC, and faculty too!) are encouraged to come to games. Did you know that 30,000 people work at Duke or one of its affiliated/related subsidaries (for example, doctors' clinics)? 30,000 people! Do you think that Michigan fills the Big House just with their students? (Fun Fact: Michigan Stadium seats 106,000 people. . . . there are 26,000 undergrads and 15,000 grad students at Ann Arbor. . . you do the math!) I also think it underscores the importance of creating a Duke football fan culture in the Triangle area. Lots of people who live in the RTP area are transplants from other places. Can we become their "local" team -- and provide some fun, low-cost entertainment for those UW fans or UCLA fans who can't easily get to one of their "real" favorites' games very easily? This is going to sound bizarre, and perhaps heretical to sports, but in some ways I think we should try to get more people to WW on game days, and frankly I don't care if they are Duke born- and bred- or if they paint their faces blue or if they are just going to show up and watch (as long as they don't cheer for our opponents!). Growing up, we didn't live near Duke or my father's alma mater, but we still went to college football games and meekly cheered for the team to which we had no ties whatsoever. My dad enjoyed sharing football with my siblings and me - and it was a relatively cheap way to spend a beautiful fall afternoon.

I'm a 3rd generation Duke grad in my family and wish my family or I lived closer so we could come to games. Trust me, if Duke goes bowlin', we'll be there. No matter how long the drive!

[towerview road]

Oops. I got off-course there. What I was going to say in my earlier post was that if we break down the numbers of undergrads at Duke, we see how small the 'pre-programmed for football' student body really is. For example, did you know that international students now make up about 12% of the student body? I am willing to bet that nearly all of these students have a very different experience with "futbol" growing up. So if we subtract these students, hypothetically, from the student body, we're down to 5400 students, conservatively.

Additionally, students of color have made leaps in enrollment at Duke and the campus has really been diversified (which I think is good and is not up for debate on this thread) - 44.5% of the freshman class identifies themselves as a student of color (Asian-American, African-American, Native-American, Latino/a, et al.) However football has not traditionally been a sport embraced by all communities - some might argue that it is a traditionally Caucasian or African-American sport. Just as someone earlier on this thread suggested that football culture is especially engrained in the South (and as one might argue that ice hockey is much bigger in collegiate sport in the Northeast and Upper Midwest), I would argue that football isn't by and large an especially popular sport in the Asian-American community, who now make up 27% of the student body. So let's subtract 27% of 5400 (1458) - our new number is now 3942.

I know I will probably get attacked for saying that statement: yes, I think it is a generalization and a stereotype, no I am not making a value judgement on whether this is "good" or "bad," and yes, I am aware there are numerous examples of how I am wrong (and there are clear exceptions - particularly for Pacific Islanders, like Native Hawaiians and Samoans, for example). On the other hand I think we all would agree that there just aren't hoardes of Asian-American, or for that matter Latino, football players in the NFL or even collegiate football. Yes, there are some. But a good chunk? Perhaps not.

No, I am not suggesting that someone should choose to support their school or watch a sport because of the color of their skin - or the color of the skin of the players on the field. But I do think it is important to point out though that fewer students may be coming to Duke each year with any pre-existing knowledge of, or even interest in, football. Contrast this to decades ago when my mother attended Duke, for example. Most of her classmates came from the South or mid-Atlantic areas (there were a sizeable chunk from the Northeast and out West, but less so than today). Many of them came to Duke with some sort of existing ties to sports, as competitors or spectators. Not all, but many.

So maybe we shouldn't focus so much on getting a few thousand students - nearly all of whom who applied and chose to attend Duke when the school had a totally terrible record (another clue they might not be huge football fans!) - to attend games and start thinking about how we can get others (employees, faculty, alumni, locals) to come?

P.S. I do hope more students show up, nonetheless. I would kill to live nearby and get to go to games now. Maybe you learn these things with age!

[sagegrouse]

Additionally, students of color have made leaps in enrollment at Duke and the campus has really been diversified (which I think is good and is not up for debate on this thread) - 44.5% of the freshman class identifies themselves as a student of color (Asian-American, African-American, Native-American, Latino/a, et al.) However football has not traditionally been a sport embraced by all communities - some might argue that it is a traditionally Caucasian or African-American sport. Just as someone earlier on this thread suggested that football culture is especially engrained in the South (and as one might argue that ice hockey is much bigger in collegiate sport in the Northeast and Upper Midwest), I would argue that football isn't by and large an especially popular sport in the Asian-American community, who now make up 27% of the student body. So let's subtract 27% of 5400 (1458) - our new number is now 3942.

Excuse me, but what is going on here? You seem to be conflating the growth of Asiam minorities at Duke with the lack of student interest in college football? This is not only naive but also insulting to just about everybody --readers, students, minorities, etc.

Can we bury this message?

sagegrouse

[duke09hms]

No, she does bring up somewhat valid points that even though they may not be PC, do have some merit.

Basically she is stating two facts and drawing a connection between them.

1. American football is a sport that really exists only in America, and even in America there are regions that heavily emphasize football, such as the South/SEC country and regions that do not to the same extent (New England for example).

2. Duke has recently become a truly international institution, drawing students from all around the world. Whereas, Duke students used to be drawn mostly from the South, many of the current students are from places in the world that football was not that important such as international students or certain ethnic groups where football is not very popular.

So it stands to reason that a significant portion of Duke's "newer" student body will not be heavily predisposed to follow football. Not saying that they will never become football fans but just that there is no pre-existing inclination for an increasing fraction of the student body.

These two statements are true, and so I think her point is valid.

[sagegrouse]

No, she does bring up somewhat valid points that even though they may not be PC, do have some merit.

Basically she is stating two facts and drawing a connection between them.

1. American football is a sport that really exists only in America, and even in America there are regions that heavily emphasize football, such as the South/SEC country and regions that do not to the same extent (New England for example).

2. Duke has recently become a truly international institution, drawing students from all around the world. Whereas, Duke students used to be drawn mostly from the South, many of the current students are from places in the world that football was not that important such as international students or certain ethnic groups where football is not very popular.

So it stands to reason that a significant portion of Duke's "newer" student body will not be heavily predisposed to follow football. Not saying that they will never become football fans but just that there is no pre-existing inclination for an increasing fraction of the student body.

These two statements are true, and so I think her point is valid.

Oh! Aside from the unfortunate link of Asian enrolments with student attendance at football, the real silliness is that we are even trying to link changes in the student body to interest in a football program that, prior to Cutcliffe, had lost nearly all of its conference games for 13 years (since 1994). Why is anyone looking for a reason for lack of interest beyond that?

Back in the day we had good attendance with a much smaller undergraduate student body ~4,000 vs. 6,300 today. We also won several ACC football championships. Notice that I am not linking the fact that the majority of students were from the football-mad South to the attendance at football games. Heck we went to the games even though we had (gasp) Saturday AM classes.

sagegrouse

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Oh! Aside from the unfortunate link of Asian enrolments with student attendance at football, the real silliness is that we are even trying to link changes in the student body to interest in a football program that, prior to Cutcliffe, had lost nearly all of its conference games for 13 years (since 1994). Why is anyone looking for a reason for lack of interest beyond that?

Back in the day we had good attendance with a much smaller undergraduate student body ~4,000 vs. 6,300 today. We also won several ACC football championships. Notice that I am not linking the fact that the majority of students were from the football-mad South to the attendance at football games. Heck we went to the games even though we had (gasp) Saturday AM classes.

sagegrouse

Not only Saturday classes, but limited cuts for most of that time as well. Miss more than three classes and one might be failing the class. No cuts allowed the day before or the day after a break. I remember hearing about the conflict which arose when Duke was going to the Cotton Bowl in 1960. For the band to be there, the members had to miss the first class following a holiday break... Another infraction which could bring an F in the class. This many years later, I don't even remember how the conflict was resolved.