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  1. #1

    Tailgating, students, & football attendance

    http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=29684

    There were a number of posts made in the Duke vs. VT football thread that referenced the alcohol culture at Duke (quite strong) and student football attendance at Duke (incredibly weak). These posts were all pulled due to their venturing too close to public-policy type of discussions (according to a moderator).

    I thought this decision rather odd since DBR posted the above linked story, and stories posted to the main page have always been considered appropriate for the Elizabeth King forum.

    Student football attendance at Duke is abysmal. Yet pre-game tailgating by students is strong. I routinely pass students walking away from Wallace Wade as I am walking toward the stadium. They are usually dressed in costume, can often be seen taking periodic vomiting breaks during their stroll away from the stadium, and some are barely able to walk without assistance. I certainly acknowledge that is the case on many college campuses. However, my experience in attending football games at other colleges is that the drinking is a part of the football experience, and the students actually end up at the game. Here the drinking experience seems to be not an accompianment to the activity, but is the activity. The studentt attendance at the game is incredibly poor. In fact, if you ranked attendance by groups in 4 year spans the 18 - 21 cohort probably has fewer members than even the toddler and medicare cohorts.

    Is it possible for a university to have a good football culture if none of the studetns go to the games?

  2. #2
    One of the few things that embarrasses me about Duke. The worst part is that so many of the students (like the dude who wrote that article) actually take pride in not going to football games, which is pathetic beyond words.

  3. #3
    Well, I think it's somewhat of a chicken and the egg situation. Does more quality on the football field lead to higher attendance or does better student turnout lead to a better product on the field? I think it's a bit of both, but more that if the football team starts producing, students will show up as that's a much more immediate thing. It's been shown in the past that if the team is good, students will come. Not justifying the going to tailgate and not game crowd, but just saying that's how it rolls for lots of people. I do think, however, that lack of student support is somewhat detrimental to recruiting, and thus negatively impacts the quality on the field. But when Duke wins only two home games your entire four years (as they have been doing for the past 10 years), it's hard for certain people to justify going to the game. When I was an undergrad just a few years ago, I'd say the majority of the people that go to tailgate have no interest in going to the game whatsoever (most notably, pretty much 100% of my girl friends had no desire). I'd usually want to go the game after, and it was sometimes hard to find others in my group to go with. Definitely needs to be a major shift in culture to get attendance up, but even with an additional 1,000 people, it doesn't fill the stadium. Not even close.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Cutcliffe has issued a request to the students. From an article in the Hearald-Sun

    I was disappointed in the homecoming crowd. I thought North Carolina Central had more students at the game than we did,” Cutcliffe said. “The loyal ones that were out there, they were wet and they were long, and they’re extremely appreciated. But just like our football team, we can all do better.

    “We need that student section full. It makes a huge difference.
    As for last game, the weather sucked, and being that it rained the whole game I was actually impressed with the attendance (of all the fans, not just students). I hope they turn out in droves, but am less than optimistic for this game due to the fall break.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    We sat through the rain last Sat. and I thought the crowd while not what we have seen the last several games pretty good when you consider the weather and the lack of opposition. I personally don't want to see us ever play a team of that caliber. You don't get ready for the ACC by playing cupcakes, imo. I am excited and anxious to see how we preform against the best of the ACC this Sat. I believe we are witnessing the start of the rebuilding of Duke Football. It may take a while but we have the coach and staff to make it happen.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Triangle
    I had an article son this earlier this week - http://bluedevilnation.net/2009/09/s...duke-football/

    The pics I took of students partying one day last season would blow your hair back

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    We sat through the rain last Sat. and I thought the crowd while not what we have seen the last several games pretty good when you consider the weather and the lack of opposition. I personally don't want to see us ever play a team of that caliber. You don't get ready for the ACC by playing cupcakes, imo. I am excited and anxious to see how we preform against the best of the ACC this Sat. I believe we are witnessing the start of the rebuilding of Duke Football. It may take a while but we have the coach and staff to make it happen.
    I understand ticket sales for the Central game fell well below expectations. The expectations may have been a bit detached from reality. You cant fault students from not being interested in the Central game. They are not from Durham for the very much most part, Central is a not even a full fledged d-1aa program.

    Duke is a national school and used to have a national caliber Football program. Stanford is doing a better job of recruiting football players with a national approach. Suggest Cut do less thinking about Durham, and more about finding smart top-rated Football players from across the country. If he helps us get the stadium fixed up and facilities upgraded, he will have helped us get half way there. To get us all the way there, we will have to recruit as well as Stanford is recruiting right now. Focusing on North Carolina (and thinking about playing Central) and getting guys UNC passes on wont quite do it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    California
    Want better support? It's simple: get your team to stop dropping 10-yard passes and missing 32-yard field goals.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Does student support matter? There simply aren't enough undergrads to noticably affect the crowd at a football stadium. If Duke starts winning enough to draw a sizable crowd to games, the students will come. Until then, student attendance isn't worth worrying about.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas/NC
    This argument always boils down to the same old conclusion.

    If you want student support for a sport at a school where that sport will ALWAYS play second fiddle to the primary one, YOU HAVE TO WIN.

    That is really all there is to it. We can wring our hands about it day and night and wish it were not true, but that is just how it is. Toss in the fact that Duke has a relatively small student body and the issue is compounded.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    I think the coaches know that winning will produce big crowds. They first need an O line to pass block, where the QB throws for 300 yds down the field and not from sideline to sideline. It's just a matter of a few (3-4) recruiting classes and we should all be much happier. P.S. I don't know what planet some of us are living on but ALL college students enjoy a good time. Duke is no different just an abundance of much higher achievers in the classroom.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    P.S. I don't know what planet some of us are living on but ALL college students enjoy a good time. Duke is no different just an abundance of much higher achievers in the classroom.
    No argument there. However, at some schools students both have a good tailgating and support the football team. At Duke there is a culture of tailgating and then going anywhere other than to Wallace Wade.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    Want better support? It's simple: get your team to stop dropping 10-yard passes and missing 32-yard field goals.
    True, but Duke students are supposedly the best fans ever, right? I'm not going to blame an individual student for not going to a game because the team isn't very good (OK, maybe just a little), but is it so much to ask that at the very least they don't display their absence as a badge of pride?

    Maybe not really relevant, but just for kicks: the school most widely recognized as having the best tailgate has been pretty mediocre in football (Ole Miss).

  14. #14
    How many of the present students came to Duke to watch football? How many Duke students came to Duke to watch sports? Maybe we all need a little perspective.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    How many of the present students came to Duke to watch football? How many Duke students came to Duke to watch sports? Maybe we all need a little perspective.
    I honestly wouldn't mind if we dropped to D3 in all sports, like Chicago. Obviously, this would have to occur sometime well after Krzyzewski retires. And would probably never happen.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  16. #16
    I don't think the quality of opponents has anything to do with the poor attendance. In fact that nobody wants to see Duke play Central because its a sure Duke victory runs counter to the idea that nobody will show up for a game with a team that would clobber Duke (like VT). Tomorrow's game will probably be the worst attendance wise. Fall break, little chance of victory, fragile fanbase, early start, I'd bet money that there will be more VT fans at Wade than Duke fans (its only a couple of hours away anyway). Attendancewould be better against someone like Elon or Davidson, teams Duke would most likely beat or destroy.

    I'll be honest. I think if Cutcliffe cannot get this program off the ground to respectability, and I'm talking just winning 5-7 games a year consistantly, then we might want to buck up to the fact that Duke is not a bowl division level team and it would be to their great benefit to move down to more appropriate competition. Lots of teams built their football foundations at the Div 1 AA level, Duke and maybe UVA as well might have to do the same. I don't see any shame in it honestly, and I don't see why the ACC would be so against it. What good is having a 12 team league when really only 9 or 10 of the teams are of equal ability?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by RelativeWays View Post
    What good is having a 12 team league when really only 9 or 10 of the teams are of equal ability?
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Just be you. You is enough. - K, 4/5/10, 0:13.8 to play, 60-59 Duke.

    You're all jealous hypocrites. - Titus on Laettner

    You see those guys? Animals. They're animals. - SIU Coach Chris Lowery, on Duke

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Triangle
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Exactly, football in the ACC brings in money. Yall don't think basketball makes money for Duke? Anyhow, Cut took over a program in shambles so we should give him some time. I mean they have won 5 games under him so far which is an improvement over the last two coaches in a big way. This is a rebuilding year and it was easy to see that coming if you truly know of the situation.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The City of Brotherly Love except when it's cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I honestly wouldn't mind if we dropped to D3 in all sports, like Chicago. Obviously, this would have to occur sometime well after Krzyzewski retires. And would probably never happen.
    Fortunately, you don't have a vote.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    I honestly wouldn't mind if we dropped to D3 in all sports, like Chicago. Obviously, this would have to occur sometime well after Krzyzewski retires. And would probably never happen.
    Throatybeard, I can definitely see where you're coming from with this, but I could not disagree more. Duke's elite D-I athletics program (alright, mostly just the basketball and lacrosse) is what sets it apart from other schools with similar academic reputations (for example, the Ivies sans Harvard, Princeton and Yale). I feel that Duke's combination of elite athletics (and the accompanying school spirit) and academics defines the school's identity, and a move to D-III would destroy this completely.

    On a slightly more relevant note, I searched "Duke tailgate" on Youtube and this is what I found. Not exactly what I want people to think of when they think of Duke football.

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