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Thread: Derek Jeter

  1. #1
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    Derek Jeter

    Saw this in the New York Times today and it's pretty amazing:

    Jeter has hit safely in 53 of his last 55 games. Other than Joe Dimaggio, the only other player to go a span of 56 with two or less hitless games is Ed Delahanty, who did it in in 1899.

    That's obviously getting lost right now in all the A-Rod hysteria, as well it should because the guy is as hot as can be right now, on pace for 126 HRs and over 300 RBIs - and it's not like they've played 5 games - almost 10% of the season is over.

    Still the Yankees look dead right now. Forget about the injuries to their pitching staff and Matsui and Posada, they are just playing with very little life or enthusiasm (except when A-Rod hits a walk-off). Jeter is not a rah-rah kind of leader. What I'd like to see is Damon and Giambi pick up the mantle as vocal, kick you in the http://www.dukebasketballreport.comh...ballreport.com kind of clubhouse leaders and light a fire under this team. There can be a drawback to having too many buttoned up, professional type players (e.g. Jeter, Pettitte, Posada, Matsui, Rivera, Cano, Abreu) in that sometimes they seem to be playing without passion - I really think the team needs some of that right now.

    I hate to admit it but the Sports Guy was right on in his blog yesterday when he wrote:

    "where's the fire? Who's kicking over chairs in the clubhouse after a sweep? Who's screaming at Dice from the dugout after his second HBP? It's a soft team. It really is. They might need to triple Kyle Farnsworth's caffeine intake before next weekend."
    Last edited by mr. synellinden; 04-24-2007 at 04:34 PM.

  2. #2

    disagree

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    ...they are just playing with very little life or enthusiasm (except when A-Rod hits a walk-off). Jeter is not a rah-rah kind of leader. What I'd like to see is Damon and Giambi pick up the mantle as vocal, kick you in the http://www.dukebasketballreport.comh...ballreport.com kind of clubhouse leaders and light a fire under this team. There can be a drawback to having too many buttoned up, professional type players (e.g. Jeter, Pettitte, Posada, Matsui, Rivera, Cano, Abreu) in that sometimes they seem to be playing without passion - I really think the team needs some of that right now.

    I hate to admit it but the Sports Guy was right on in his blog yesterday when he wrote:

    "where's the fire? Who's kicking over chairs in the clubhouse after a sweep? Who's screaming at Dice from the dugout after his second HBP? It's a soft team. It really is. They might need to triple Kyle Farnsworth's caffeine intake before next weekend."
    It's all hindsight bias, that too many writers and prognosticators buy into. If they win, they're calm, cool and collected and pressure doesn't faze them a bit. If they lose, they're flat and need someone who stirs things up. Good hitting and fielding (and especially pitching) are all that really matter. The Yanks, right now, have amazing hitting, so-so fielding and VERY poor pitching. We'll see if Hughes, Wang, Clemens(?) fix that.

    Whether or not they win it all, or even make the playoffs, let's re-visit his swipe at Rivera at the end of the season.

  3. #3
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    I hate the Yankees.......

    But I like A-Rod and I am personally pulling for him to continue to his tear bc I hate the way the fans in NY have treated him and if they don't want we could find somewhere for him in Atlanta.

    P.S. I haven't heard them booing him much lately.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbb03 View Post
    It's all hindsight bias, that too many writers and prognosticators buy into. If they win, they're calm, cool and collected and pressure doesn't faze them a bit. If they lose, they're flat and need someone who stirs things up. Good hitting and fielding (and especially pitching) are all that really matter. The Yanks, right now, have amazing hitting, so-so fielding and VERY poor pitching. We'll see if Hughes, Wang, Clemens(?) fix that.

    Whether or not they win it all, or even make the playoffs, let's re-visit his swipe at Rivera at the end of the season.
    I was formulating this response before I scrolled to it. Outstanding post. Its like chemistry -- teams that are winning have great chemistry, teams that are not winning don't. The yankees are expected to win, so being below .500 (and getting swept by my Sox) puts a little extra pressure on.

    Simmons is an idiot -- the last thing people need to be doing is carrying on about their failures, which just puts more pressure on. The players know they have the talent, its just a matter of staying relaxed and doing what they've always done. If they can tread water (.500) until they get healthy in a couple months, they'll be ready to go on a tear the last 2/3 of the season.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post

    Still the Yankees look dead right now. Forget about the injuries to their pitching staff and Matsui and Posada, they are just playing with very little life or enthusiasm (except when A-Rod hits a walk-off).
    This is absolutely wrong -- the exactly reason they are losing (starters not going 6 innings and giving up ~5 runs) is because of the injuries to the staff. Get back Wang, Pavano (i know i know), and Mussina, and that'll rest the bullpen, helping out the other pitchers.

    The offense is not the yankees problem. Do you really want Damon or Giambi rah-rahing the pitchers??? "C'mon guys, throw it a little bit harder!!"

  6. #6

    Switching Topic a Little

    Agreed that chemistry is generally overrated. Also, good for Jeter, although I think consecutive game hit streaks are pretty much meaningless anomalies unless combined with an abnormally high batting average over the streak. I'm too lazy to look it up, but what's Jeter hitting over that 55 games? Is it significantly higher than his career average?

    Anyway, I'm more focused on A-Rod's play right now. My goodness is that guy on fire. I am not a Yankees fan by any stretch of the imagination, and I've never been a big admirer of Rodriguez, beyond appreciating his prodigious talent. But for some reason I've been pulling for him to keep this ridiculous run going. Probably because he's appeared so miserable the last couple of seasons. And I don't have any desire to see him go down as a guy who could tear it up for second tier teams but couldn't cut it with New York even though he's averaged like 40 homers and 120 RBIs there. I guess I'd sort of like to see him eclipse Barry Bonds 7 years from now, too, so that Bonds doesn't litter the record books with his impetuous, drug-tarnished baby image for too long.

    What's more impressive even than the homers for me right now is the 34 RBIs IN 18 GAMES!!! That's absurd. He's got double the homers and RBIs of his closest followers in the A.L. Joe Mauer might be the only thing between A-Rod and a Triple Crown if he doesn't do a 180.

    Who knows how long this can last but, he needs what, 59 homers now in 144 games to get to the record? I don't see any signs he'll return to earth anytime soon. If he gets to 30 homers by late May, which is certainly possible at this rate, it's going to be an interesting summer. I know Pujols just had 14 homers in April a year ago, but it's only the 24th!

  7. #7
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    Prediction

    Soon, real soon, the guy from Texas comes riding in, one horse to carry him and the other the loot, and all of a sudden, the pitching situation changes dramatically. Not how you start, but how you finish. As an old Brooklyn Dodger fan, all I can say is, well, all I can say is, he was SAFE!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrady View Post
    This is absolutely wrong -- the exactly reason they are losing (starters not going 6 innings and giving up ~5 runs) is because of the injuries to the staff. Get back Wang, Pavano (i know i know), and Mussina, and that'll rest the bullpen, helping out the other pitchers.

    The offense is not the yankees problem. Do you really want Damon or Giambi rah-rahing the pitchers??? "C'mon guys, throw it a little bit harder!!"
    Wait a minute ... I did not say that they were losing because of a lack of passion as opposed to their abysmal starting pitching. Nor did I say they were losing because of a lack of offense. In fact, I wasn't trying to say that they were LOSING for any reason. What I said was forget about their injuries, they look dead right now. Maybe I should have written ... "and besides all their injuries they do look dead right now."

    I have been a Yankee fan for a long time ... my guess is that I watch 110 -120 games a year. If we just focus on the Torre era, it has always been about starting pitching - although I would argue that in the last few seasons (since 2003) weaknesses in the bullpen have been a bigger problem in October. I understand that they are missing 60% of their starting rotation right now and with good pitching comes better baseball and the hindsight expert analysis that the Yankees are gelling and they have great chemistry and with their loaded lineup they are going to be tough to bear and all that stuff.

    The point I was trying to make is that as I watch this team I feel strongly that they play with a lack of focus (lots of errors), intensity or passion that they have in the past. I felt this way much of last season, I felt it very strongly during the 2006 postseason - they just seemed resigned to losing to the Tigers - and I remember making comments about it during the 2005 playoffs as well. It's just a feeling you get watching them and it's based on years of experience as sports fan. It's a body language thing and if you watch a lot of sports you know it when you see it - kind of like pornography courtesy of Justice Stewart. I'm just looking for a little bit of patent enthusiasm besides mobbing ARod at home after a walkoff. As I said, Jeter is more of a lead by example kind of guy. A strong fist pump is the most you are going to get from him. Maybe I'm looking for more sneers from Pettitte peerinig out from behind his glove and more pounding of the glove on big strikeouts, or more of Paul O' Neill in Bobby Abreu. Heck, give me more of Paul O'Neill in everyone. Someone break a helmet after striking out with two men on. Or more fire from Joe Torre - like when the third base umpire blew the call on the ball Cano hit down the line on Saturday (which looked clearly fair to me), it's not Joe's style but getting thrown out there wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.

    I think the Yankees have been so buttoned up and professional for the past few years that they are afraid that a little yelling and screaming and jawing with the other team or umpire will seem a little desperate or forced. I'm also afriad that some of the younger guys (Cano, Cabrera, Wang) are afraid to "break the mold" and be more excitable out of fear of it being looked down upon by the veterans (or maybe that's just their demeanor).

    I do wonder what's happened to the Yankees since the Pedro/Zimmer Varitek/A-Rod brouhahas? Why was there no retailiation for ARod and Jeter getting plunked (as the Sports Guy asked - by the way, I agree that he can be an idiot and is an obvious homer on many topics - especially the Yankees but he is fairly observant and can make some valid points)?

    If you ask me, since the 2004 season, the fights with the Red Sox and the ALCS collapse, there has been something missing in the Yankees' chemistry. During the offseason I was terrified at the prospect of Steinbrenner replacing Torre with Piniella, but now I'm thinking that might not have been the worst thing. Give me a little of Reggie Jackson and Billy Martin, a little collective swagger. In an interview after last night's loss, Damon said there's no way this team should be losing four games in a row. That's right - now go out tonight and play with some anger and win 10-1. Put up five runs in the first against Kazmir, make some plays in the field, have Wang pitch a solid game and Rivera pitch a perfect ninth - they probably will. And they'll probably end up winning 95 games. But I'd still like to see them do it with a little more of the old Yankee fire.

    Maybe I'm overreacting to a bad stretch of baseball but it is something I've felt about the team for a while.

  9. #9
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    Agreed that chemistry is generally overrated. Also, good for Jeter, although I think consecutive game hit streaks are pretty much meaningless anomalies unless combined with an abnormally high batting average over the streak. I'm too lazy to look it up, but what's Jeter hitting over that 55 games? Is it significantly higher than his career average?

    .350 according to the NYT - career average is .317.

  10. #10

    yanks

    mr. syn -
    All good points. I unfortunately think those days are over. Sure they have a high payroll and sure they are still the team to beat on most nights, but the current collection just doesnt seem to be able to get over the hump.

    I think pitching is the key in those short series, and by the time september/october rolls around, i just don't think those old (and young) arms have enough in them to win it all. I'd love to be wrong. Maybe wang and Hughes will be the real deal. We'll see...

    The deals they have made for quality pitching have all pretty much backfired -Pavano, Wright, Weaver, Vazquez, plus losing Petite and Clemens and Contreras. Not sure why, but that's a lot to overcome.

    Offensively, the lineup is pretty insane.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMS2478 View Post
    if they don't want we could find somewhere for him in Atlanta.
    The Braves are unlikely to be able to retain Andruw Jones this offseason (barring a steep hometown discount) let alone win a bidding war for A-Rod if he opts out.

  12. #12

    Please, a little patience

    I'm also a long-time Yankee fan (dating back to the days of Mantle-Berra-McDougald and Ford) and I can't believe how quick some of you are to push the panic button.

    God, it's obvious what's wrong -- no team could lose three of its top four starters, plus an all-star outfielder -- and remain in contention. Wang comes back tonight. Mussina is due back this weekend and Pavano should be back in 10 days to two weeks. Matsui returned last night. Clemens, we'll see -- he'll be a nice addition, but I ain't counting on him.

    Baseball is a game of streaks. The Yankees have had bad April's before -- recently. Remember two years ago when Jeter got off to such a horrible start and everybody thought the sky was falling? Remember last year when the Red Sox took five of six in April and seemed to have the upper hand in the dynasty? Remember what a horrible April Rivera had a year ago?

    I know the Red Sox rallied to beat the Yanks in the playoffs two years ago and then won the series. They did it as a wild card -- do you know how many times in the last decade they've finished with a better season record than the Yankees?

    Chill ... it's a long season. The Yanks don't need somebody kicking over water coolers or starting fights in the dugout. They need Wang, Mussina, Matsui and Pavano back. They'll be fine.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I'm also a long-time Yankee fan (dating back to the days of Mantle-Berra-McDougald and Ford) and I can't believe how quick some of you are to push the panic button.

    God, it's obvious what's wrong -- no team could lose three of its top four starters, plus an all-star outfielder -- and remain in contention. Wang comes back tonight. Mussina is due back this weekend and Pavano should be back in 10 days to two weeks. Matsui returned last night. Clemens, we'll see -- he'll be a nice addition, but I ain't counting on him.

    Baseball is a game of streaks. The Yankees have had bad April's before -- recently. Remember two years ago when Jeter got off to such a horrible start and everybody thought the sky was falling? Remember last year when the Red Sox took five of six in April and seemed to have the upper hand in the dynasty? Remember what a horrible April Rivera had a year ago?

    I know the Red Sox rallied to beat the Yanks in the playoffs two years ago and then won the series. They did it as a wild card -- do you know how many times in the last decade they've finished with a better season record than the Yankees?

    Chill ... it's a long season. The Yanks don't need somebody kicking over water coolers or starting fights in the dugout. They need Wang, Mussina, Matsui and Pavano back. They'll be fine.
    Olympic Fan -- I hear you. But where on this thread do you see anyone pushing a panic button?

    You're right - I think they had an 11-19 April in 2005 and started 9-11 the year before and both times won the division. I don't think anyone thinks the sky is falling, especially given the injury situation.

    My point was to acknowledge something that's been bothering me for two seasons - what appears to be a lack of intensity and focus. And dbb03's only doubts were whether they had enough pitching to win it all. Again, I don't think any Yankee fan here is panicking. As I said, they'll probably end up with around 95 wins and another MVP for A-Rod.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by asbcheeks View Post
    The Braves are unlikely to be able to retain Andruw Jones this offseason (barring a steep hometown discount) let alone win a bidding war for A-Rod if he opts out.
    Ahhh, but if the Braves are able to wipe Hampton's $20+ million off next year's books by having an insurance company pay for that bum arm then maybe they can keep Andruw.

    A-Rod? No way, but I have my fingers crossed on Andruw. I'd like to see him sign a 5 year deal to really make Atlanta his only meaningful home for his career. No debate about what hat he wears when he goes in the Hall of Fame (and trust me, he will be in the Hall when his career is done).

    -Jason "like many in this thread, I am no Yankee lover but I really like A-Rod" Evans

  15. #15
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    As a Red Sox fan with ARod on his fantasy team, I'm loving the start to this season...

    And btw, while yes its too early to hit the panic button, and the Yankees will still probably end up making the playoffs, their pitching, even if it gets healthy, is nowhere near up to the stuff it was in the 90s when they were winning. Mussina now is nowhere near his prime, and you are counting on Pavano(one good year in his career) and Wang(if you look at his numbers - opponents BA, etc - from last year, you could consider him the most fortunate pitcher around) to put things right? With the Yankees offense, okay pitching will be enough to get them a good share of wins. But come playoff time, without a single starter that opponents will be worried to face, the Yankees won't go anywhere again(especially now that Rivera is looking like he's finally showing signs of age). Its not panic - oh my god we're only going to win 70 games! - time for the Yankees. But they really do need to take a good hard look at where to go with their personnel if they want to return to being favorites to win series(not that I mind them falling by the wayside).

  16. #16
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    True.......

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ahhh, but if the Braves are able to wipe Hampton's $20+ million off next year's books by having an insurance company pay for that bum arm then maybe they can keep Andruw.

    A-Rod? No way, but I have my fingers crossed on Andruw. I'd like to see him sign a 5 year deal to really make Atlanta his only meaningful home for his career. No debate about what hat he wears when he goes in the Hall of Fame (and trust me, he will be in the Hall when his career is done).

    -Jason "like many in this thread, I am no Yankee lover but I really like A-Rod" Evans
    I know the Braves wouldn't be able to even compete in an A-Rod bidding war, I was just making the statement I would love to have him. As for Andruw, I am with you Jason. I hope they are willing to pay him to keep him in Atlanta, but I doubt it. Hey Jason, you are in Atlanta so help me out if you know the answer to this. I am a long time Braves fan and have often wandered........are we that bad off financially that we can't compete for any big time free-agents. You said earlier we need a 1B and a LF. Yet we didn't make any attempt to get anybody. Granted we did improve our bullpen which needed it, but I would have liked to see us compete for someone like Carlos Lee or Moises Alou. Can we really not afford these guys. We are one of the more popular teams in terms of around the U.S. and I have been to many games and paid for the tickets and food, they have to be making money. What do you think??

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    I'm too lazy to look it up, but what's Jeter hitting over that 55 games? Is it significantly higher than his career average?
    Last year he hit .343. This year he's hitting a mere .316.
    --BluBones

  18. #18
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    Agreed.......

    Not that Jeter's hitting streak isn't impressive, but I think hitting streaks in general are overated. You can have a 100 game hitting streak, but if you go 1-4 every night you are still just hitting .250 which is not an impressive batting average.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMS2478 View Post
    I know the Braves wouldn't be able to even compete in an A-Rod bidding war, I was just making the statement I would love to have him. As for Andruw, I am with you Jason. I hope they are willing to pay him to keep him in Atlanta, but I doubt it. Hey Jason, you are in Atlanta so help me out if you know the answer to this. I am a long time Braves fan and have often wandered........are we that bad off financially that we can't compete for any big time free-agents. You said earlier we need a 1B and a LF. Yet we didn't make any attempt to get anybody. Granted we did improve our bullpen which needed it, but I would have liked to see us compete for someone like Carlos Lee or Moises Alou. Can we really not afford these guys. We are one of the more popular teams in terms of around the U.S. and I have been to many games and paid for the tickets and food, they have to be making money. What do you think??
    Because the Braves are now a corporate unit, rather than a stand-alone team, they have a rather strictly dictated operating budget (something like an $80-85 million yearly payroll).
    As for personnel, I don't really think 1B & LF are quite the problems that many think they are. In left, Matt Diaz put up nice numbers last season, and I expect him to perform to roughly his past standards. Langerhans right now is an unmitigated disaster, but if he keeps this up for much longer, he'll get benched. As for 1B, I think Scott Thorman is a fine player. He's certainly better in my book than that slack-jawed loafer Adam LaRoche, my least-favorite Brave ever (who, by the way, is currently batting a sizzling .098 for Pittsburgh).

    The Braves are going to be in the mix all season. I think the offense is plenty good right now; Kelly Johnson has been a near-revelation leading off (OBP of something like .420), Francoeur has seemingly grown up some (batting just a hair south of .300, NL leader in RBI), Chipper's his old self (batting .320 or so...just please stay healthy), McCann is one of the three or four best offensive catchers in the game, Renteria is as solid as they come, and Andruw hasn't even gotten going yet (and eventually, he absolutely will). In my book, that's plenty of offense.

    If we're going to go after anything anytime soon, I want it to be a starting pitcher. Smoltz & Hudson look great so far, and Chuck James also appears to be the real deal. But Kyle Davies is still highly unpredictable, and Redman is terrible. Perhaps Lance Cormier's return will shore up the situation some, but one more dependable starter would really solidify the whole team. With the bullpen we've now got, 2 very good-to-great starters and another 2 good-to-very good ones would place the Braves among MLB's elite, imo (although I don't think they're too far off in their current iteration).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMS2478 View Post
    Not that Jeter's hitting streak isn't impressive, but I think hitting streaks in general are overated. You can have a 100 game hitting streak, but if you go 1-4 every night you are still just hitting .250 which is not an impressive batting average.
    You make a good point, but batting average is an overrated stat, too. The only offensive stats that really matter are runs and RBI. You can be on base or smacking the ball all day long, but if you're not producing scores for your team, it's all pretty much for naught.

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