Heroes, 24 - 4/23

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Yawn. What a disappointment in both shows. And I was so looking forward to Heroes tonight.

[pacificrounder]

**SPOILER ALERT** (Sorry, don't know how to hide text.)

Terrible Heroes. Really just dreadful. I think that the whole grieving for Peter when all they really had to do would pull the glass out of his head and he would come instantly back to life ordeal was the worst moment on the show thus far. Worst of all, it dragged out for 5+ minutes when we could have seen 5 more minutes of Hiro and Ando in the future. I thought the end was nice, but weak. There should have been some metaphysical quasi-universal effect to the two Hiros meeting each other.

Did any one catch the symbolism of Isaac pinned down on the floor? At first I thought Jesus, but then on second look it looks like Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

[Udaman]

Heroes has all this time off...and this is what they come back with? Blatantly stealing from other movies (the nuke is going to create good, just like destroying Gotham will be good ala Batman Begins....the shapeshifter, who is basically doing X-Men), and having Linderman and the grandmother as first generation Heroes? So utterly disappointing...which is a real shame.

Also, there are a couple of things that I'm confused about:

1) Where is Peter's scar? The one that future Hiro pointed out way back in one of the first episodes?

2) Since he doesn't have it now...then he can't be the one to create the nuke. If "Save the Chearleader, Save the World," holds out, then Hiro went back to tell Peter that the Chearleader was the one to save...and Peter must have had a scar in the future...so he would not have been the one killed in the nuke blast.

3) I thought Isaac died just before the nuke went off (per Hiro's first encounter with him)...this death was 5 days before or so. Odd.

The show can still turn itself around, and Syler is great. But last night was pretty bad.

[Udaman]

Average grade on Television Without Pity is an A, and most are saying it was great.

Certainly had good action...I just saw it as a ripoff of a lot of other movies...with nothing really resolved.

[JasonEvans]

I can't believe how bad Heroes stucked. The acting was beyond awful. When big brother Petrelli was crying over Peter's body, it was just horrid. I actually backed it up on TIVO and said to the wife, "lets watch this again, just so we can see why Heroes is not even in the same ballpark as Lost."

Continuity and story errors are really getting common now. I am starting to think that they may be making things up as they go along -- at least a little bit -- and that is a really bad sign.

Are we ever going to see what Linderman did to convince Nicki/Jessica to let him use Micha? I doubt it.

The escape from the paper factory holding cells was just horrid and devoid of any drama. My wife wants to know why Parkman was only hearing HRG's thoughts and not the thoughts of everyone around. And how, exactly, were they keeping Nuclear Ted from blowing up the entire building? Man, was security at that place ever lame, or what? Grab one rusty pipe and you can bust 3 people out. Yeah, that's realistic. I'll sauy this, it was a good thing HRG knew exactly how Ted's powers worked-- even more than Ted did. Sheesh!!!

Is there any character more annoying than Mamma Patrelli? Are we supposed to be shocked when she unveils her own power or do we already officially know she has a power?

I am very bothered by the notion of there being Heroes from a long time ago -- like the invisible guy, and Linderman, and Mamma Petrelli and probably many others (Hiro's dad/Sulu?). At the beginning of the show they kept on talking about an awakening and new abilities being discovered and the such. It was clearly implied that this was some new phenomenon happening. Now it turns out it has been around for decades. This also cheapens the importance and impact of all the work by father and son Suresh.

I could go on and on-- that weas a truly dreadful episode, far worse than the worst episode of Lost. At this point, the comparisons of the two shows has become a joke.

-Jason "I am still in a 24-free zone at my house... but I now have 2 episodes backed up on TIVO... just in case I decide to give it a new chance" Evans

[riverside6]

Are we ever going to see what Linderman did to convince Nicki/Jessica to let him use Micha? I doubt it.
Evans

Keep in mind Nickessica didn't allow Linderman to take Micah, it was the "impersonator" that pretended to be Micah's mother.

I did like the impersonator's line that said she could show HRG things that would make him scratch his eyes out.

[Highlander]

On a positive note, I thought the fight scene between Sylar and Petrelli was pretty cool. I liked the line of "I can't wait to try that one out." Although, if Sylar has super hearing, why didn't he hear Suresh coming with the blackboard until it was too late. Hiro vs. Hiro in the end was a decent cliffhanger.

As for the negatives...

I heard mama Petrelli say she had a power, but it wasn't identified what it was.

Isaac dying was kind of lame. If you can predict the future, why on earth would you wait around for your killer to show up? Then again, painting the future is kind of a lame talent. Could you imagine Isaac hanging around the Justice League? "Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman - You guys go out and save the world, I'll stay here with the Wonder Twins and paint some stuff..."

Also, what exactly is the point of Mohinder now? Or of Claire for that matter?

After over a month off and a great cliffhanger, they could have done a lot better. Plus they only have 4 more episodes? That bites. Way too much to leave undone before next year.

[Mal]

Pretty much agree on the negative reactions, especially to the idea that no one would bother to pull an 8-inch shard of glass out of their dead brother's/son's head, and even more especially to the idea that someone who had just been staked to the ceiling and watched his tormentor try to rip the brains out of someone else's skull would just leave Sylar lying there unconscious, whether they thought Peter was dead or not. There's a loaded gun in the room. Yeesh. They couldn't write a believable way for that confrontation to end with all three characters living? It's patently ridiculous that Sylar lived after all that. The mind boggles at the writing. The fight itself was also incredibly lame. Peter went invisible and then stood there for 30 seconds doing nothing while looking the other way. Good thinking! What Sylar did with the glass was pretty cool, I guess, but he could have just concentrated on hearing Peter (by the way, his eardrums would probably have popped when Mohinder tried to shoot him in the last episode). Why Peter couldn't have thought of a way to avoid the glass is beyond me. Maybe while Sylar's standing there concentrating on the glass, you could telekinese something over there to hit him in the head? By the way, you can fly, too. Or did you not remember that?

I hated that Linderman has the cliche evil guy "sacrifice ten million people to save the rest from some threat" attitude. You're supposed to make us think "hmmm, maybe that's a reasonable sacrifice in the abstract, given the imminent dangers on display, but, no, these are human beings and I can't believe I'm even thinking of condoning that sort of thing, even if it achieved its objective. It's immoral." Instead all we're left with is "this guy's obviously crazy and evil - even if he thinks he's doing the right thing, there's no moral ambiguity underlying it, just delusion." What's the need for blowing up NYC, again?

I echo the criticism of the emerging theme of an older generation of heroes, now seen in full flower. Why did the first half a dozen episodes focus on an eclipse and how this was all new? There was plenty of potential for rivalries and emerging factions and some people using their powers for the wrong ends without having to have Linderman and Mrs. Petrelli and Hiro's dad running things from the shadows. I wish Primatech Paper had been something other than Linderman's evil doing.

By the way, far too many people have supernatural powers on this show. At this point, Bennett and Ando appear to be the only regulars who don't have powers, and I wouldn't put it by the writers to change that, too.

There was action last night, but not worth 6 weeks of waiting. I guess the reveal is always a let down after the build up and all the hypothesizing about what's really going on on a show like this.

Questions:

Did Isaac send out a bunch of paintings to let others know where Sylar would be, or what was he talking about before he died?

I presume Micah is supposed to make the ID tagging machine in NYC work when Bennett and co. dismantle it, or am I missing something?

Whatever happened to Hanna, the woman who was with Ted and Parkman and could read e-mails and the like?

[JDSBlueDevl]

You're missing something. Micah is probably going to make the impenetrable "logic bomb" for the election that Hana was able to dismantle when Linderman's minions were trying earlier (if you've been reading http://www.samantha48616e61.com/). And one theory discussed at the boards at TelevisionWithoutPity.com says that the tracking device isn't a thing, but rather a person: Charles Deveaux, who is always near death, but not dead.

One more thing to think about: is Nathan another Sen. Kelly and Linderman another Gen. Stryker? Spoilers from TV Guide and NBC seem to be leaning that way.

EDIT: Link fixed.

[Mal]

I must admit, I have no idea what JDSBlueDevl just said. What exactly am I missing? What's a logic bomb? When did Hana dismantle one? She's only been in one episode, right? Did she say something about this to Ted and/or Parkman, maybe at the graveyard? Your explanation might clear up why Linderman told Nessica that he had a plan that had recently unraveled and he needed Micah to help, but I'll be danged if I remember her doing something like that. Regardless, it's awfully shady writing if she dropped some 411 about taking something apart into a conversation 4 episodes ago and now it's impacting Micah and we haven't seen her since. Why wasn't she at Bennett's house? What is she doing?

Who on earth are Gen. Stryker and Sen. Kelly? When did we meet them?

If I've been reading? There's reading assigned to a television show? I'm afraid the link you attached was dead, unfortunately.

The theory you mention on the tracking would explain why everyone spends so much time atop the Deveaux Building, I guess.

[JDSBlueDevl]

I must admit, I have no idea what JDSBlueDevl just said. What exactly am I missing?

Evidently a lot.
The online novels at http://www.nbc.com/Heroes (read the online novels first. If you've read them all up to the one corresponding to Parasite, read the next six, which detail an interesting relationship between Linderman and Pa Petrelli)
http://www.samantha48616e61.com/ (look at the entries on this "blog" for the past month to see what I mean about "logic bomb". Oh, and the link above contained an extra parenthesis, so this should work)
http://www.primatechpaper.com/
http://www.9thwonders.com/
http://www.activatingevolution.org/

Also, Heroes360 online during the airing of Heroes explains a bit, such as how DL figured out that Niki was really Jessica (it was a scene that was cut out of Parasite).

What's a logic bomb? When did Hana dismantle one? She's only been in one episode, right?

Uh, yes and no. Physically in one episode, but she was in the Heroes360 feed for "Company Man" and is an active character in the online comics and her blog. And a "logic bomb" is a program written to rig an election.

Who on earth are Gen. Stryker and Sen. Kelly? When did we meet them?

We don't. They're characters from the X-Men universe that I said might have parallels to the Heroes universe (namely, in the forms of Linderman and Nathan, respectively).

[Clipsfan]

I sort of stopped paying attention to the episode, or at least stopped trying to think about it, after Peter's "death". As a couple people said (Exiled first) I couldn't get over leaving Silar unconscious on the ground. I'd have killed him then and there. That wasn't my only problem with that scene, which is what led to my not really following it anymore. Second, Mohinder was suddenly alright, although he'd been bleeding profusely and had been pinned to the ceiling. I couldn't tell whether he was physically pinned (knives etc, such as some of the earlier victims of Sylar) or if it was just TK, although he dropped to the ground as if it was just TK. Third, what kind of cab lets you bring your dead buddy along with you? I don't live in NYC, but I can't imagine that they'll let you do that. Especially not if you also look like you've been tortured (Which you have). I mean, how exactly did Mohinder talk the cabby into doing that in broad daylight? It's strange that that is the part which was too much for me, but it was. I could handle the stupidity of not creating your own force shield when you see Silar raising the glass slowly. I can (almost) handle not killing Silar when you have the chance. I can handle Mohinder's amazing powers of recovery (I watch 24, after all). I can't handle a cabby willing to transport bloody dead people.

[Duvall]

Third, what kind of cab lets you bring your dead buddy along with you? I don't live in NYC, but I can't imagine that they'll let you do that. Especially not if you also look like you've been tortured (Which you have). I mean, how exactly did Mohinder talk the cabby into doing that in broad daylight? It's strange that that is the part which was too much for me, but it was. I could handle the stupidity of not creating your own force shield when you see Silar raising the glass slowly. I can (almost) handle not killing Silar when you have the chance. I can handle Mohinder's amazing powers of recovery (I watch 24, after all). I can't handle a cabby willing to transport bloody dead people.

It was Mohinder's cab.

[Clipsfan]

It was Mohinder's cab.

Duh. At least that makes me less irritated with the episode. I forgot that Mohinder took over driving his dad's cab. I guess that's what multiple hiati (hiatuses?) combined with completely forgetable characters does to me.

[Exiled_Devil]

Jason - a few reactions

Lindeman never convinced Niki/Jessica to give over Micah - they used the Mystique girl to impersonate her.

I find myself forgiving a lot on this show, and I don't know why. I like it a lot, but it is not the kind of show where I don't let my wife speak - those shows are BSG and The Office. Interestingly, I don't mind during Lost, because I am sure I will need to tivo back to stuff after reading bboards on Thursday.

I am still onboard, and interested in seeing the days of future past episode. I think that the season still has a lot of life, and I am interested in seeing how the Watchmen storyline plays out.

Interestingly, the main writer for the show is not a comics fan, so much of the references I and others have made to comic books are lost on him. I think that he has comic writers on his staff to keep him in line, but his lack of knowledge of the genre helps make Heroes approachable and also supplies some of the lamer moments - A wired article highlights some of the interesting interplay of the writers, exampled by the term 'schmuckbait', where practiced viewers will know that a hero is not in danger at the 'cliffhanger' moment (see: P. Petrelli with a glass shard in the back of his head) but the rubes get all excited. I think the glimmer of real comic myth and storytelling is what keeps me around.

All-time stupidest moment of the episode, Peter turning his back on Sylar so that the glass could pierce his skull. WTF? Invisibility doesn't permit you to see behind you, does it? IANASH, but I generally believe that one should face
an opponent when fighting them.

Second place - Mo-tard not popping two bullets into Sylar's brain before dragging Peter away. Again, WTF?

I was annoyed with the Petrelli family not knowing how to help Peter. Then I realized that only Claire knew about the 'not dying' with nothing bothering the brain.

Exiled

[TheGodfather]

they used the Mystique girl to impersonate her.

Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.

[JasonEvans]

Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.

It does not matter which other well-known superhero she is copied from, the fact that, with the exception of Suresh and a couple people who work for "the company", everyone on the show has some kind of power really cheapens things. It was a huge mistake having this many heroes. They felt "special" and surprising early on. Now, they are commonplace and the show has lost a lot of its special feeling as a result.

-Jason "the writing lately has just been dreadful" Evans

[OZZIE4DUKE]

everyone on the show has some kind of power really cheapens things. It was a huge mistake having this many heroes. They felt "special" and surprising early on. Now, they are commonplace and the show has lost a lot of its special feeling as a result.

There are only a lot of them because the show is about them. Most of the other 6.59 billion ( http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html ) people on the earth don't have super powers.

[Mal]

Ugh. I wasn't aware of all of this other source material out there, I guess. But you know what? I shouldn't have to read a bunch of comic books to understand what's going on on a television show. I'm totally with Jason Evans on this one (and also on the disappointment with too many people with powers) - if it's not a symptom of weak writing that they have to fill in blanks by referring us to some other source of information beyond what's put on the screen, it's a cheesy attempt to pull us toward more advertising by making this a "multimedia phenomenon." Maybe that's a model for future television, what with the intrusion of DVRs into traditional advertising revenue, but personally I'm no comic guy, I know nothing about the X-Men, and I have zero interest in reading up about characters' backgrounds elsewhere. If you can't tell the whole story for me on the screen in the 42 minutes/week I'm going to give you, then what's the point? It's annoying to me, and detracts from the quality of the show itself (which is a total lowbrow guilty pleasure to start with, so you'd better at least have the onscreen universe sensical and complete).

Exiled, I think you're on that credulity path, and I think I am, too. I was willing to overlook a lot on this show just because the ideas behind it were pretty cool. But as the concepts and themes have been either awkwardly fleshed out, or not fleshed out and expanded upon at all over the course of the season, my patience with the crummy acting, bad dialogue writing and plot contrivances is waning quickly. I'll watch the remaining episodes, but my enthusiasm is diminished. There's just too much going on to even follow now.

As usual, I'm left thinking "This could be soooo much better if it were on HBO."

[Exiled_Devil]

Exiled, I think you're on that credulity path, and I think I am, too. I was willing to overlook a lot on this show just because the ideas behind it were pretty cool. But as the concepts and themes have been either awkwardly fleshed out, or not fleshed out and expanded upon at all over the course of the season, my patience with the crummy acting, bad dialogue writing and plot contrivances is waning quickly. I'll watch the remaining episodes, but my enthusiasm is diminished. There's just too much going on to even follow now.

You know, I am not sure if I will be happier if they stop the bomb or if it goes off. I do know I will be PO'd if the season ends right before an exploding body. As it stands, I can see the summer haitus being interesting whether they stop the bomb or not. Of course, no matter what they do, the universe will just find some other way to kill Charlie.

Exiled