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  1. #21
    One of the posters [Matt] added this explanation of why Peter doesn't have a scar.

    "Peter had a scar in Hiro's original future because Sylar killed Claire in the original timeline. When Hiro returned and told Peter to save Claire he changed that future. Peter gains Claire's healing ability and Sylar doesn't, so in the new future he wouldn't have a scar."
    "There can BE only one."

  2. #22
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    I have read some of the online comics, and they are cool, but it seems like huge plot holes are being covered up by "its in the comic." To me that is lousy make-it-up-as-you-go-along storytelling.

    -Jason
    Last edited by JasonEvans; 04-25-2007 at 08:42 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I have read some of the online compics, and they are cool, but it seems like huge plot holes are being covered up by "its in the comic." To me that is lousy make-it-up-as-you-go-along storytelling.

    -Jason
    True, but it could also be a preview to what will be included in the next episode. Future Hiro might refer to it next week.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Devil View Post
    they used the Mystique girl to impersonate her.
    Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGodfather View Post
    Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.
    It does not matter which other well-known superhero she is copied from, the fact that, with the exception of Suresh and a couple people who work for "the company", everyone on the show has some kind of power really cheapens things. It was a huge mistake having this many heroes. They felt "special" and surprising early on. Now, they are commonplace and the show has lost a lot of its special feeling as a result.

    -Jason "the writing lately has just been dreadful" Evans

  6. #26
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    Fanboy mode on.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGodfather View Post
    Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.
    Sure thing, Steve-Dave. Mystique is the reference point for people who aren't fan-boys. I am a borderline one, but I wanted to use a reference that someone without any comic reference point.

    Incidentally, Scarlett Witch is not an illusionist. She changes reality. That's how they had the big multi-comic arc with mutant utopia and then reduced the number of mutants to 198. And we don't know if Candace is an illusionist or shape-shifter. All we have seen is her looking like different people, which is a decent approximation of Mystique.

    Question for Jason - I see the bad writing, the mediocre acting, and yet, I have no issue. I keep happily watching. Is this what season 3 of 24 was like? Am I on the 'credulity path' that will have me skipping the episodes like you are with 24?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    everyone on the show has some kind of power really cheapens things. It was a huge mistake having this many heroes. They felt "special" and surprising early on. Now, they are commonplace and the show has lost a lot of its special feeling as a result.
    There are only a lot of them because the show is about them. Most of the other 6.59 billion ( http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html ) people on the earth don't have super powers.
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
    9F 9F 9F
    http://www.EGLEW.com


  8. #28

    Online comics?

    Ugh. I wasn't aware of all of this other source material out there, I guess. But you know what? I shouldn't have to read a bunch of comic books to understand what's going on on a television show. I'm totally with Jason Evans on this one (and also on the disappointment with too many people with powers) - if it's not a symptom of weak writing that they have to fill in blanks by referring us to some other source of information beyond what's put on the screen, it's a cheesy attempt to pull us toward more advertising by making this a "multimedia phenomenon." Maybe that's a model for future television, what with the intrusion of DVRs into traditional advertising revenue, but personally I'm no comic guy, I know nothing about the X-Men, and I have zero interest in reading up about characters' backgrounds elsewhere. If you can't tell the whole story for me on the screen in the 42 minutes/week I'm going to give you, then what's the point? It's annoying to me, and detracts from the quality of the show itself (which is a total lowbrow guilty pleasure to start with, so you'd better at least have the onscreen universe sensical and complete).

    Exiled, I think you're on that credulity path, and I think I am, too. I was willing to overlook a lot on this show just because the ideas behind it were pretty cool. But as the concepts and themes have been either awkwardly fleshed out, or not fleshed out and expanded upon at all over the course of the season, my patience with the crummy acting, bad dialogue writing and plot contrivances is waning quickly. I'll watch the remaining episodes, but my enthusiasm is diminished. There's just too much going on to even follow now.

    As usual, I'm left thinking "This could be soooo much better if it were on HBO."

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
    There are only a lot of them because the show is about them. Most of the other 6.59 billion ( http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html ) people on the earth don't have super powers.
    Ok, but if virtually everyone on the show has superpowers it removes a lot of the wow factor about the super powers.

    For example, most of the other 6.59 billion people on the planet cannot hit Roger Clemens' fastball but a baseball game would be really dull if everyone in the game could hit it. Not sure if that example made sense but my point is that Heroes would be a lot better show if there were fewer people with powers so we felt their power was more special.

    And I am 100% convinced the Tim Kreig never planned on having Linderman or mamma Petrelli have powers when he started this thing out. Heck, I think he did not plan on that even a few episodes ago. He is making up huge chunks of this stuff as he goes along... and he isn't even 1/10th the storyteller that Damon Lindelhoff is.

    -Jason "sorry, I keep on comparing Heroes to Lost and that is just not fair to Heroes" Evans

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I can't believe how bad Heroes stucked. The acting was beyond awful. When big brother Petrelli was crying over Peter's body, it was just horrid. I actually backed it up on TIVO and said to the wife, "lets watch this again, just so we can see why Heroes is not even in the same ballpark as Lost."
    Woah. It's amazing to me how much the pendulum of popular opinion has swung since earlier this season. So many people were saying that "Lost" had gone into a slump and that "Heroes" was better. I agree "Lost" is a better show, with stronger acting and writing, but "Heroes" isn't bad at all.

    I thought this week's episode was just fine. Above average, even. The last few episodes before the break were fantastic, but it's difficult to build the momentum up again after a hiatus.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    Exiled, I think you're on that credulity path, and I think I am, too. I was willing to overlook a lot on this show just because the ideas behind it were pretty cool. But as the concepts and themes have been either awkwardly fleshed out, or not fleshed out and expanded upon at all over the course of the season, my patience with the crummy acting, bad dialogue writing and plot contrivances is waning quickly. I'll watch the remaining episodes, but my enthusiasm is diminished. There's just too much going on to even follow now.
    You know, I am not sure if I will be happier if they stop the bomb or if it goes off. I do know I will be PO'd if the season ends right before an exploding body. As it stands, I can see the summer haitus being interesting whether they stop the bomb or not. Of course, no matter what they do, the universe will just find some other way to kill Charlie.

    Exiled

  12. #32
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    Online comics

    I personally think the online comics are cool (and potentially better than the rest of the show), but totally agree with Jason and Mal that way too much of the story has moved there. The multimedia is fun, but should be for inconsequential details, not major parts of the backstory. I think some of the comics would have made great additions to the show - wouldn't the Lindemann in Vietnam flashback be a great way to start Season 2 (if he's still alive by then)? Would also help explain why a US soldier in Vietnam went Madonna and developed a Brittish accent in his later years.

    As for comparisons to other TV shows, I think Heros is kind of in the middle of 24 and Lost, but unfortunately probably closer to 24. I think the main differences between those 2 shows is that 24 is totally focused on the plot, where Lost is much more about the characters and the plot is less emphasised (often to my frustration, but whatever). The execution of the 2 shows is also night and day, with the writing, acting, and storytelling of 24 light years away from Lost. Heros has seemed to focus more on plot vs character development, and I think the plot so far has been good and that is what has kept me interested and willing to live with the acting and dialogue. If they turn into 24 with twists that don't really make sense and the general feeling if making it up week to week, that's when I'll probably bail, but I'm going to let the season play out and see if they really know what they are doing or not.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I have read some of the online comics, and they are cool, but it seems like huge plot holes are being covered up by "its in the comic." To me that is lousy make-it-up-as-you-go-along storytelling.

    -Jason
    Yeah, the writers are definitely making full use of the retcon device.

  14. #34
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    As someone who has never watched Heroes, I became intrigued because some of y'all seem to be fans. Tivo'ed it this week but can see that this week's show shouldn't be my introduction. Suggestions?

  15. #35
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    Heroes and 24...

    ...both tanked in the ratings Monday.

    Heroes was almost 3 million people below its season average, not good.

    24 posted its lowest ratings ever since it moved to Monday nights. Yikes!

    More here: http://www.reuters.com/article/telev...28871620070425

    -Jason "and if, as many of us seem to think, the Heroes episode was bad, the ratings could get even worse" Evans

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    As someone who has never watched Heroes, I became intrigued because some of y'all seem to be fans. Tivo'ed it this week but can see that this week's show shouldn't be my introduction. Suggestions?
    You can watch some of the older episodes on the internet at nbc.com, although I'm not sure which episode would be best to start with. I don't think that you need to go back to the beginning, as the overall feel has changed a ton throughout the season as the overall concept is created on the fly. I don't know how many episodes NBC has online, but I'd just start with the oldest one. That way you also get to watch them back-to-back.

  17. #37
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    Well, to those dissatisfied with Heroes, there's always Jericho. All episodes are on Innertube (unless you have a Mac, b/c some yahoo at CBS decided to switch from RealPlayer 10 to RealPlayer 10.5). Oh, and ALL the info is in the show.

    Me? I like both. I think of Heroes as an experiment in expanding the concept of a television series to the Internet. The only reason why I think there were major developments in the comic/blogs was b/c of the long layoff, trying to keep interest in the series high, and also to throw spoilers around before they're revealed in the show (big example is the Primatech website). I don't think any other major plot developments (besides, of course, expanding on tiny tidbits, sometimes in technical depth, in the show) were mentioned in the online stuff, with the exception of the "String Theory" comic. But again, I think that one is pointing toward spoilers in the next few episodes.

    So, did the experiment succeed? Who knows? I'm intrigued by it, but I can see that some of you aren't.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clipsfan View Post
    You can watch some of the older episodes on the internet at nbc.com, although I'm not sure which episode would be best to start with. I don't think that you need to go back to the beginning, as the overall feel has changed a ton throughout the season as the overall concept is created on the fly. I don't know how many episodes NBC has online, but I'd just start with the oldest one. That way you also get to watch them back-to-back.
    Last I checked (Monday), all the episodes back to Chapter 1 were online.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDSBlueDevl View Post
    Well, to those dissatisfied with Heroes, there's always Jericho. All episodes are on Innertube (unless you have a Mac, b/c some yahoo at CBS decided to switch from RealPlayer 10 to RealPlayer 10.5). Oh, and ALL the info is in the show.

    Me? I like both.
    Jericho is 100% being made up as they go along. I am sure of that. But, it is largely character driven and not dependant upon some great unanswered question in its plot for suspense and drama. As a result, the making-it-up part does not bother me as much. Plus, my expectations for Jericho are muuuch lower than they are for Heroes and Lost.

    -Jason "there are shows I do not watch... but I ain't revealing what they are " Evans

  20. #40
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    Thanks for the heads up

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