The Redskins sue their fans

[JasonEvans]

Have any of you read this rather long story in the Wash Post about the Redskins and how they treat fans who cannot pay for multi-season ticket pacakges?

Now, Hill says, her beloved Redskins are forcing her into bankruptcy.

Last year, Hill's real estate sales were hit hard by the housing market crash, and she told the team that she could no longer afford her $5,300-a-year contract for two loge seats behind the end zone. Hill said she asked the Redskins to waive her contract for a year or two.

The sales office declined.

On Oct. 8, the Redskins sued Hill in Prince George's County Circuit Court for backing out of a 10-year ticket-renewal agreement after the first year. The team sought payment for every season through 2017, plus interest, attorneys' fees and court costs.

Hill couldn't afford a lawyer. She did not fight the lawsuit or even respond to it because, she said, she believes that the Bible says that it is morally wrong not to pay your debts. The team won a default judgment of $66,364.

"It really breaks my heart," Hill said, her voice cracking as the tears well and spill. "I don't even believe in bankruptcy.

There are a lot more stories like that, some even worse. In some cases, the Redskins are suing for well over $100,000 and, even if the fan is fourced by the court to pay up, the fan does not get the seats/tickets!

Whew, some of the stories are really pathetic. This does not make the Redskins look good, IMO.

--Jason "I don't understand why so many of these folks refused to contest the lawsuits-- that's just asking for it" Evans

[BlueDevilBaby]

Did see that article. Nasty! I feel bad for those people. Not sure why I keep buying my season tickets and I'm not even a fan. But I do not pay those exhorbitant prices.

[allenmurray]

To paraphrae our president - the Redskins are acting stupidly.

I don't understand how, if the person loses the suit and therfoer does pay for the tickets, they don't at least get the tickets. Another part of this story was the Redskins knowingly sold a large number of individual game tickets to ticket brokers rather than individual fans. So, they sue the fans who can't pay and don't sellto those fans who want to pay.

It used to be a great franchise. I grew up a Redskins fan, living just a few miles outside of the city. First my beloved Orioles, now this.

I just rechecked the WaPo article. Many of the ticktes that were sold to brokers were the very same ones in which the Redskins sued the previous contractees and won. So, they sue a season ticket holder, get a settlement worthmore than the fair market value ot the tickes, get to keep the ticketrs, and then resell them to a ticket broekr service. Wow. (by the way, Redskins is the most racist name in all of professional sports - "Redskin" was never an honorary term like "Brave" or even a descriptor, like "Seminole" - the term was always an insult - it is the Native American equivilant of calling an African-American a n****r)

[Cavlaw]

I wonder if the ticket renewal agreement had a liquidated damages clause. If not, she should have hired an attorney to enforce upon the Redskins the duty to mitigate damages, requiring them to try to sell the seats to someone else.

[InSpades]

I'm assuming most teams don't sue their fans (as stated in the article) because they don't have these ridiculous sorts of contracts. You have season ticket holders. You send them a bill. Either they pay or they don't pay. If they don't pay you give them a last chance to pay and then sell their tickets to someone else. There's no need to ever sue in this situation. The whole 6-year contract thing is ridiculous. Why is there a need to lock someone into a 6-year contract for football tickets? I'm assuming these people would have much preferred 1-year contracts but were only offered much longer ones (though I really don't know, cause frankly I've never heard of such a thing). I guess it's possible that they signed 6 or 10 year contracts to lock in lower prices...

Football is actually going to have a pretty interesting year with unsold tickets. If a home team does not sell out then the game is blacked out in that market. Reportedly many teams (even the Jets for some games) have not sold out their games. Some realistically don't expect to sell them out. Which has to cause some tension with the TV contracts. Those networks pay a lot of money to broadcast those games and now they can't show the Jets game in NY? That seems unlikely but in smaller markets it will definitely happen. Football tickets have become so expensive that even die-hard fans (my brother for example) are passing up opportunities at season tickets. I know I'd personally much rather watch the game from the comfort of my living room than a bad seat in the stadium.

[blazindw]

I'm assuming most teams don't sue their fans (as stated in the article) because they don't have these ridiculous sorts of contracts. You have season ticket holders. You send them a bill. Either they pay or they don't pay. If they don't pay you give them a last chance to pay and then sell their tickets to someone else. There's no need to ever sue in this situation. The whole 6-year contract thing is ridiculous. Why is there a need to lock someone into a 6-year contract for football tickets? I'm assuming these people would have much preferred 1-year contracts but were only offered much longer ones (though I really don't know, cause frankly I've never heard of such a thing). I guess it's possible that they signed 6 or 10 year contracts to lock in lower prices...

Football is actually going to have a pretty interesting year with unsold tickets. If a home team does not sell out then the game is blacked out in that market. Reportedly many teams (even the Jets for some games) have not sold out their games. Some realistically don't expect to sell them out. Which has to cause some tension with the TV contracts. Those networks pay a lot of money to broadcast those games and now they can't show the Jets game in NY? That seems unlikely but in smaller markets it will definitely happen. Football tickets have become so expensive that even die-hard fans (my brother for example) are passing up opportunities at season tickets. I know I'd personally much rather watch the game from the comfort of my living room than a bad seat in the stadium.

And they expect the Jaguars to not have a SINGLE sellout game this year, and that all of their games would be blacked out on TV. Incredible. Even my beloved Lions will have a game on TV.

[allenmurray]

I'm assuming most teams don't sue their fans (as stated in the article) because they don't have these ridiculous sorts of contracts. You have season ticket holders. You send them a bill. Either they pay or they don't pay. If they don't pay you give them a last chance to pay and then sell their tickets to someone else. There's no need to ever sue in this situation. The whole 6-year contract thing is ridiculous. Why is there a need to lock someone into a 6-year contract for football tickets? I'm assuming these people would have much preferred 1-year contracts but were only offered much longer ones (though I really don't know, cause frankly I've never heard of such a thing). I guess it's possible that they signed 6 or 10 year contracts to lock in lower prices...

Good point. Redskins VP Donovan proudly boasts of his teams 160,000 person waiting list for season tickets. If that is the case, it seems he would have no trouble selling the tickets to someone else. The skins really stepped in it here. I hope some attroney with a lot of skills, deep pockets, a large research staff, and a deep seated hatred of all things Redskins decides to take this on. There has got to be some hot shot attorney in Dallas just wanting to get in on this action.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I have been Deadskin season ticket holder for 20 years now and have never had to sign a contract. Must relate to the seating section, although I am in the lower bowl.

[mkirsh]

The Redskins are really putting long time fans in a tough place - on the one hand you want to support your team through thick and thin, and on the other hand you want to vote with your wallet and let Dan Snyder know that the way he's running the franchise is antagonizing the fans. How do you do that without feeling like a bad fan? I swore off going to the stadium a few years ago as it is impossible to get in and out of and everything is a "revenue opportunity" for them - they are even charging $40 for the shuttle the runs from the metro to the out-of-the-way stadium. Snyder is in full blown 80's Stienbrenner mode - impatient firing of coaches (5 coaches in 10 years not counting interim head coaches), overpriced free agents, yes-men in high levels of the org, you name it. To be fair to Stienbrenner at least he had some successful teams in the 90's, but Dan Snyder keeps blowing up the tracks every time a head coach won't kiss his ring. As a fan you can say "I'm not going to give Snyder any of my money" - no tickets, no merchandise, etc, but in the end that just hurts the quality of the team he can put on the field. Sucks being a Redskins fan right now, the only thing that makes me feel better is the fact that Cowboys fans probably have it just as bad and on top haven't won a playoff game since '96.

[weezie]

Even my beloved Lions will have a game on TV.

Yes, blazindw, and you and I may be the only folks outside of beautiful southeastern MI watching it. But, hope springs eternal.

The 'Skins, though...ugh. One thing Snyder surely does not need is any MORE bad press.

[weezie]

the only thing that makes me feel better is the fact that Cowboys fans probably have it just as bad...

Except they, at least, have one sweet new stadium where they even have HOT WATER in the bathrooms. Imagine that! Unlike the catastrophe that is FedEx. Someone offered us their entire season tix, lower bowl, 40 yard line, face value but we gave it a big no thanks. It is a terrible, terrible venue with abusive parking rules and miserable stadium workers..but, who can blame the workers.

[Olympic Fan]

Keep in mind, the Redskins are the franchise that tried to charge fans for viewing preseason workouts (not exhibition games ... workouts).

Another of Daniel Snyder's brainstorms was to covert half the press box into a cigar bar for he and his buddies (the luxury boxes weren't big enough). Of course, doing that meant that the Redskins had to refuse press credentials to newspapers that had covered the team since WWII. What the heck, those media types are freeloaders anyway!

Count me as another lifelong Redskin fan who has lost interest in the team since Snyder's (mis)management era. It's gotten so I take a perverse delight at their mediocrity.

[JasonEvans]

I know I'd personally much rather watch the game from the comfort of my living room than a bad seat in the stadium.

I was talking about this with a friend the other day. Think about how much better the home viewing experience is today versus 10 years ago. HD broadcasts, more angles for replays, huge TV sets, better sound systems, that yellow first-down line graphic that always shows you where the first-down and line-of-scrimmage are... the list is long.

Now, tell me one thing that has changed for the better in viewing a game live. I'm waiting.

So, while the home viewing has gotten a ton, ton better, the live viewing has remained the same. I am not putting down the advantages of a live experience-- being in a crowd and immersing yourself in the game is always a ton of fun -- but the choice of live game for $100/person (or more) versus watching at home on my 60-inch HD TV is... well... not exactly a no brainer of a choice anymore.

--Jason "I guess this is one reason why an atmosphere like Cameron is so special and so important to Duke's future success" Evans

[bjornolf]

I haven't read the article, but it's all the radio shows have been talking about this last week or so.

[blazindw]

FedEx is a terrible experience for a Skins game. I'm a secondary Cowboys fan (due to my living down there in the 90s during the 3 Super Bowls in 4 years), so I actually went to a Cowboys-Skins game last year. Also seen the Lions play there 2 seasons ago. Terrible. FedEx is not the crown jewel that Snyder thinks it is.

Oh, and since I need clients and HATE the Skins, I would love nothing more than to lace it up against the Skins in court. I'm barred in MD. ;-)

[whereinthehellami]

I haven't read the article, but it's all the radio shows have been talking about this last week or so.

The Skins, moreso Snyder has been getting killed on the DC sports talk radio shows. Apparently Snyder tried to buy out 106.7 FM a couple of months ago because of their acerbic remarks towards him. Lavar Arrington in particluar has spewed some venom towards the little guy. They were saying that a couple of years ago, Snyder tried to force the Redskin season ticket holders to pay for their tickets with a Redskin credit card. This obviously did not go over well and was abandoned after much public discourse.

[davekay1971]

This article really breaks my heart. I grew up in DC, a dedicated Redskin fan watching Joe Gibbs prowling the sidelines through three Super Bowls. After Snyder took over it's been less easy to love the 'Skins, but they have remained my team at heart. I recently had the chance to meet Joe Gibbs and his wife and hang out with them - two of the nicest, most humble and down-to-earth people you could ever meet.

This behavior by the team is sickening. While you could argue that these people voluntarily signed contracts and therefore should take the responsibility of fulfilling their contract, common decency should win out. The Redskins wouldn't even lose money letting people out of the contract - there is a famously long waiting list of people ready and eager to buy any season tickets which might come available.

I'm afraid my lifelong love for the 'Skins is now over. Go Panthers!

(But I'll still hate the Giants, Iggles, and Cowboys just the same...)

[Channing]

I am sure ESPN is well aware of the article, but I put the link to the article in an email to E:60 encouraging them to run a story on it.

[Jeffrey]

Snyder has amazed me! IMO, he has destroyed one of the greatest teams in NFL history while making it one of the most valuable franchises. To me, that's beyond strange.

[JasonEvans]

I've got no problem with owners who treat their teams like a business. I mean, we are talking about investments worth hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars here.

But, the problem comes when the owner forgets about the important lesson of customer service. I think some sports owners assume their product is so invaluable, they do not need to worry about keeping the customer happy. That is where we get horrible situations like the present one with the Redskins.

It would never work and will never happen, but a piece of me thinks sports would be better if all teams were owned by the municipality in which they were located and every team operated under the same fixed salary cap. Ahh well.

--Jason "sadly, I fear there is no way to put real pressure on Snyder and make him change his ways" Evans