mike vick to eagles.

[Jeffrey]

I'll try again....

...and I don't care how much you've stayed out of trouble b/c you probably haven't lived.

Please, explain what you mean by that comment.

[allenmurray]

Some of you guys are skewing things. He's no VP getting hired by some new company. He's a FORMER employee who was allowed to re-enter his profession just like Marv Albert, Pete Rose, Robert Downey Jr, Lindsay Lohan, and so on and so forth. Even doctors and lawyers who have lost licenses are offered shots at getting them back.

Absolutely. However, I still do not see how that makes him a hero.

[allenmurray]

I'll try again....



Please, explain what you mean by that comment.

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey (which doesn't happen al lot )I know many people who have lived incredibly full lives, yet have not beaten dogs to death, run gambling rings, been convicted of felonies, lied about it, and spent time in prison.

[Bluedog]

SupaDave, I personally agree with you that Vick deserves a second chance and I don't have much of a problem with it. He has paid his debt to society, filed for bankruptcy, expressed remorse (although he's had no choice), and I don't think we should not allow people to return to work. He has already paid a heavy price. Random comment: PETA annoys me, although I do like the anti-cruelty society.

I just find it somewhat strange that pro athletes are held to such a different standard than other industries.

Even doctors and lawyers who have lost licenses are offered shots at getting them back.

Really? I don't know of any. How would a doctor/lawyer conceivably get clients when they had their license revoked at one point in their career? You think Nifong is going to practice law again anytime soon? And he was just convicted contempt of court (a far less severe crime; obviously, that's much more related to his profession, though, than Vick's charges).

He's no VP getting hired by some new company. He's a FORMER employee who was allowed to re-enter his profession just like Marv Albert, Pete Rose, Robert Downey Jr, Lindsay Lohan, and so on and so forth

He is getting hired by a new organization. He's not going back to the Falcons with the same management. Obviously, it's the same industry, but he's NOT a "former" employee. That's like saying somebody is a former employee of Goldman Sachs when he/she used to work at Morgan Stanley...I guess it's still under the umbrella of the NFL, but his contract itself is with a particular team. And he's probably get paid a lot more than most VPs. You just named former athletes and actors (except Marv Albert). I guess actors can be included on the "held to different standard" list. And those guys had less severe criminal records than Vick. Vick was convicted of federal conspiracy and dogfighting felony charges. Those are heavy duty.

And trust me - I'm sure you encounter folks EVERYDAY with worse charges AT their jobs...

This would surprise me. Worse charges than Vick's? There's not much left besides rape and murder (perhaps that's a bit hyberbole, though). I don't know if there's really a hierarchy of charges, but federal conspiracy charges are up there for sure. I sure hope I don't come across rapists and murderers every day who have jobs that pay them ridiculous sums of money.

[Jeffrey]

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey (which doesn't happen al lot )

My calendar must be wrong. This must be Friday the 13th.

[allenmurray]

My calendar must be wrong. This must be Friday the 13th.

It is not unlucky for us to agree - just unusual.

[Jeffrey]

It is not unlucky for us to agree - just unusual.

Some consider Friday the 13th to be a good luck day. One thing everyone should agree on... Friday the 13th is rare.

[JasonEvans]

I just find it somewhat strange that pro athletes are held to such a different standard than other industries.

Really? I don't. I don't understand how folks are making the absurd comparison of Michael Vick to a "regular employee."

There is almost nothing about professional sports that resembles mainstream industry. Everything in pro sports is more public and analyzed. Your employees are much, much, much higher compensated than at normal companies (sure, some CEOs make more than star athletes, but how many companies pay their lowest ranking employee several hundred thousand dollars a year?). What's more, the competition for employees is a much bigger deal than in other industries.

In fact, the only other industry close to pro sports would be the film/TV entertainment industry. And, no surprise, that is an industry that forgives misdeeds in much the way sports does. Look at Robert Downey Jr or Mel Gibson or the many other stars who have gotten in trouble with the law and been welcomed back into Hollywood.

--Jason "Vick is no hero but he deserves a chance to earn a living and show that he has learned from his past" Evans

[SupaDave]

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey (which doesn't happen al lot )I know many people who have lived incredibly full lives, yet have not beaten dogs to death, run gambling rings, been convicted of felonies, lied about it, and spent time in prison.

Well when I say stay out of trouble - it means just that. To achieve some things in this life sometimes there are boundaries that have to be pushed - even when it only deals with the recreational stuff.

When I say stay out of trouble I don't mean trying to avoid felonies. Shoot, I'm willing to bet an arm that there are very few posters on this board who haven't received a stern warning from an authority figure.

People have lost gold medals b/c of doping - which doesn't hurt me one bit and hurts the athlete's reputation tremendously - but you can't take away that feeling of winning that race.

Sure - Vick doesn't have to be YOUR hero but he was a hero to a LOT of kids before his past came to light and to watch him rise again after such adversity and own up to his own stupidity is something that shouldn't be admonished. People still got their jerseys here in Atlanta - trust me on that.

[Channing]

Well when I say stay out of trouble - it means just that. To achieve some things in this life sometimes there are boundaries that have to be pushed - even when it only deals with the recreational stuff.

When I say stay out of trouble I don't mean trying to avoid felonies. Shoot, I'm willing to bet an arm that there are very few posters on this board who haven't received a stern warning from an authority figure.

People have lost gold medals b/c of doping - which doesn't hurt me one bit and hurts the athlete's reputation tremendously - but you can't take away that feeling of winning that race.

Sure - Vick doesn't have to be YOUR hero but he was a hero to a LOT of kids before his past came to light and to watch him rise again after such adversity and own up to his own stupidity is something that shouldn't be admonished. People still got their jerseys here in Atlanta - trust me on that.

(1) I don't see how running a dog fighting ring, and, imo, the moral depravity that went along with it (electrocuting dogs, forced procreation etc.) falls into anyone's category of "pushing the boundaries". Mark McGuire used Andro - that was pushing the boundaries. What Vick did was a felony for which he paid his debt. The only boundary he pushed was how long he could lie about it once he got caught.

(2) Not all mistakes are created equal. Getting a warning to be more productive at work, not drive so fast, etc can all get you a stern warning. They are not in the same stratosphere as a felony conviction and federal criminal charges.

(3) You are right. He was a lot of people's hero in Atlanta. If he is still someone's hero I think it is a statement about society. There are far more deserving heros out there. I often hear that African American children need role models in their own community - how about Obama for one. In the sporting world, Warrick Dunn is a great choice. There is no need to idolize criminal behavior and the lifestyle that went along with it.

(4) I also see some Vick jersey's around town, although not that many. I think/hope they wear them to show support for Vick, and not because they condone and approve his behavior. If they want to wear them in honor of his redemption, don't you think they should wait until he actually, you know, does something to redeem himself?

[DukeUsul]

I'm all for the man having a second chance at life. He has a right to get his life back on track and earn a living.

That does not mean that it's the right thing to do for the Eagles to hire him to represent their team, their fans and their beloved city. There is a point at which a coach or other leader has to say "you do these things, and you're not worthy to wear our uniform." We see it occasionally, and we've seen it here at Duke more often under Cut. Just because Vick served his time and has a right to get his life back does not make it right for him to represent my city.

[SupaDave]

I'm all for the man having a second chance at life. He has a right to get his life back on track and earn a living.

That does not mean that it's the right thing to do for the Eagles to hire him to represent their team, their fans and their beloved city. There is a point at which a coach or other leader has to say "you do these things, and you're not worthy to wear our uniform." We see it occasionally, and we've seen it here at Duke more often under Cut. Just because Vick served his time and has a right to get his life back does not make it right for him to represent my city.

THIS CITY?

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime/

[Channing]

THIS CITY?

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime/

i am missing the point of this post??

[SupaDave]

There is almost nothing about professional sports that resembles mainstream industry. Everything in pro sports is more public and analyzed. Your employees are much, much, much higher compensated than at normal companies (sure, some CEOs make more than star athletes, but how many companies pay their lowest ranking employee several hundred thousand dollars a year?). What's more, the competition for employees is a much bigger deal than in other industries.

Maybe you've never worked in construction but in my industry there are a few people who get away with murder simply b/c they are the only ones who can do certain things. A welder is sometimes worth his weight in gold and I promise you if he's good he'll get hired even if he has a rape on his rap sheet. Not just that but certain specialty contractors will leave your job hanging sometimes if offered an appropiate amount of money.

[SupaDave]

i am missing the point of this post??

Just look at the crime rates...

[Jeffrey]

THIS CITY?

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime/

Is that where Vick's brother lives?

[Channing]

Just look at the crime rates...

I did ... I still dont understand your post. Is your point its OK for Philly to sign vick because they have a high crime rate? I seriously dont understand the point of posting Philly's crime statistics, when the poster was, presumably, making a statement about their personal feelings.

[RelativeWays]

As a Saints fan I hated Vick and how he abused my poor team. I'm just glad he's gone from the NFC South.

As a dog owner (one a rescue and one a stray) I found Vick's actions reprehensible, I can't see hurting an animal like that.

As someone who likes to claim having Christian beliefs ( and I don't mean the conservative moral majority) I truly believe that Vick deserves a second chance and I hope he becomes not only a successful player, but also a successful member of the community. I hope that the ASPCA or the Humane Society can get past the typical self righteous indignation and that they and Vick will reach out to each other and help create a positive from this.

I don't believe you can truly change someone by constantly browbeating them or ostracizing them or continuing to hold a grudge. If they are truly intent on changing, whatever their reasons, you can do more by reaching out to that person.

[SupaDave]

I did ... I still dont understand your post. Is your point its OK for Philly to sign vick because they have a high crime rate? I seriously dont understand the point of posting Philly's crime statistics, when the poster was, presumably, making a statement about their personal feelings.

To break it down for you. The point is in reference to the poster referencing HIS city as if Michael Vick "representing" HIS city as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles is somehow tarnishing the city's image. You've got to be freaking kidding me. Have you ever BEEN to Philly? This is one city that will get over it and move on - ESPECIALLY if they get to catch lightning in a bottle.

The team has embraced him - including the owner and the coach. I'm sure they will be sensitive to the public's needs but if you've been watching Sportscenter any today then you would realize that they've made their mind up with Vick and any interference could just cost YOU dearly. Then those idiots will have their own charges to contend with.

It's fine to be unhappy with your team's choices but if it's your team then it's your team and you should try and be supportive no matter the circumstances - something we all try and practice around here at the DBR.

On a moral level we all know what Vick did was wrong but if you're not from our neck of the woods then you also don't understand some of the normalcy of it and why many folks just don't see it as such a bad thing. But guess what? We ALL learned something. Dogfighting has long been one of those things that goes on and noone ever gets caught. I know cops who got their dogs straight from pit farms - no license necessary. You think they would do that NOW?

You have to be able to see beyond all the smoke and mirrors sometime and see that we have a real chance to accomplish something here. It seems that Vick does and he's making the most of his time. He coulda pulled a Lawrence Phillips and perhaps many of you aren't realizing just how often that happens to athletes after mistakes.

We've gleefully at times watched the fall of athletes. No need to name names but just as it seems that some of your hatred is motivated by the amount of money that these people make these same athletes suffer consequences that the common man also never would. Many have crumpled from the media alone. The scrutiny would make you claustrophobic.

Vick is a young man. The book on Vick is far from over. If he does what he says then just a few years from now this will all seem like a distant memory (insert memory of athlete gone good here)...

But I promise you that #7 jersey will sell - and that's just based on the number of profiles I saw changed to the Philly Eagles on facebook today (I've got a good test size)...

[cspan37421]

To break it down for you. The point is in reference to the poster referencing HIS city as if Michael Vick "representing" HIS city as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles is somehow tarnishing the city's image. You've got to be freaking kidding me. Have you ever BEEN to Philly? This is one city that will get over it and move on - ESPECIALLY if they get to catch lightning in a bottle.

Well, by the same indicator you cited for Philly, your own city of Atlanta actually is worse.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/atlanta/crime/

Atlanta - safer than 1% of the cities in the USA (worse than Miami, Detroit, Chicago, even New Haven and Newark). Philly - 12%, I think topping all of those. Heh heh - so's mine! 1%. Yay Chattanooga. Must be scaled for population.

Couple other points. First, the word "mistake" is being used a lot, and IMO does not describe the situation. These activities did not occur by accident. To Vick's credit in his news conference today he more often framed it as bad choices he made, and bad behavior he engaged in, not as much a "mistake."

Second, I can't speak for everyone but I would guess that some of us remain skeptical of how genuine his change of heart is. There's no way to tell a difference between someone who is saying and doing all this stuff just to get back in the NFL and earn some serious coin while he still can (I don't suppose there's an engineering degree he can fall back on...) and someone who has had a genuine change of heart. Remember after his arrest there were lies, deception, and postures of piety. At what point did he turn from a phony to the real article? Many of us aren't sure if or when this happened.

Tony Dungy has gone way out of his way to help this guy get back in the NFL. What I couldn't tell is if Vick ever sought his help (though I'm sure he appreciates it, given how it has turned out).

Well anyway, he's no hero of mine either, though I hope he can maintain his distance from his former buddies and his old lifestyle, replace them with new ones.