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  1. #1

    Angry Sporting News top 50 coaches of all time...

    So, the Sporting News got together a panel of coaches, Hall of Famers, and other experts to rank the top 50 coaches of all time. Coach K made it, of course, but one man I would argue deserves to be in the top 10 and isn't even on the list is my uncle, Rod Dedeaux. Here's his partial resume:

    1. Coached USC baseball for 45 years.
    2. Coached over 50 major leaguers, including some all time greats.
    3. Winningest coach in college baseball history at the time of his retirement, with a record of 1332-571-11 (.699). I don't know if he still is or not, but I think he is.
    4. Won 11 national titles, including 5 in a row from 1970-1974. That's an average of one title every four years. I love Coach K. I think he got jobbed not being higher on this list, but even HE hasn't averaged a title every four years. Hopefully he'll go on a run like Dedeaux and end up there when he retires.
    5. Championed baseball in the olympics, one of the driving forces behind getting it to be a medal sport in 1988. Coached USA baseball in both the 1964 and 1984 Olympics. Won the final game in both when they were exhibition sports, so would have won the gold.
    6. At the request of the emperor of Japan, he brought baseball to Japan, teaching an entire country what is now arguably their favorite team sport. Subsequent success in the Olympics and little league world series has caused him to quip that he taught them a little TOO well.
    7. Mentor to Sparky Anderson, who started as his bat boy as a 10 year old, eventually becoming his assistant coach and went on to a great career. Sparky made the list.

    Here's more on him:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Dedeaux

    Here's the list:
    http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-web...4.story?page=1
    (I couldn't get the Sporting News website to load this morning, so I found the list here)

    Anyway, please discuss both my argument that Rod Dedeaux belongs on the list, and any other coaches you think might either deserve to be there that aren't, or that don't deserve to be there that are.

    I also think it's a travesty that Coach K is 19 while Dean is 8. I also think it sucks that Geno Auriemma is on the list, but Pat Summit is NOT.

    Please, debate.

  2. #2

    Pat Summitt

    Is on the list at number 11.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Durham, NC

    huh?

    Dean Smith is 8, while Bobby Knight is 16?!

  4. #4
    Millerecu-

    Oh, shoot, I missed her. Good, I'm glad she's there, and that she's above Geno. Thanks.

    Must have missed it cause I wasn't looking for the second "t". After all, Pat "Summit" is NOT on the list, is she?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC

    Omissions

    bjornolf...you make an excellent case for Coach Dedeaux; he deserves to be on the list

    Also deserving IMO are:

    Anson Dorrance---UNC women's soccer; 19 national championships
    Dan Gable---Iowa wrestling; 15 national championships; combined record of 355-21-5

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    bjornolf...you make an excellent case for Coach Dedeaux; he deserves to be on the list

    Also deserving IMO are:

    Anson Dorrance---UNC women's soccer; 19 national championships
    Dan Gable---Iowa wrestling; 15 national championships; combined record of 355-21-5
    All worthy of mention, but if you notice, the top 50 comes entirely from the NFL (10), NBA (5), NHL (5), MLB (10), college football (11), and college basketball (9). I strongly suspect that the larger list of candidates was restricted to those sports.

    I did notice that Herb Brooks (#50) is listed as an NHL coach, which is true, but he's really here because of college and Olympic hockey.

    Here's the Sporting News link.

  7. #7
    How Dean Smith got in there above BOTH Coach K and Bobby K and Adolph Rupp is beyond me.

    Travesty, a damn travesty!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Wink Oddity: Bud vs. Woody

    Woody Hayes (#27) is ranked ahead of Bud Wilkinson (#29) in the list. This is a bit of a joke. At the time he retired, Bud Wilkinson would have been ranked with Knute Rockne at the top of the heap of all-time college football coaches. Bear Bryant, over the next decade or so, moved into this company. I can't imagine what would have led to the diminution of Bud's rep except the passage of time.

    Woody Hayes -- a legendary tough-guy football coach -- won many championships but is almost as well known for his lack of self-control. The final "blow" was a punch at a Clemson linebacker following an interception at the Gator Bowl at the end of the 1978 season. He was fired the next day by the OSU president.

    I suppose the compiler of the list gave Hayes credit for 13 Big Ten championships and five Natl. Championships in 28 years. The conference crowns are exceptional in an era (esp. the 1950s) when the Big Ten was often the dominant conference. The five reported NCs don't stand up to scrutiny (though as a Duke guy, one tarnished crown would be really great). One was consensus (1968); two were split: 1954/AP [press] and 1957/UPI [coaches]. Two were splinter groups (Football Writers in 1961 and Football Foundation co-share in 1970). Woody was 4-4 in his Rose Bowl appearances and 1-1 in other major bowls.

    Bud OTOH won three consensus NCs and 14 Big 8 titles in 17 years at Oklahoma and established the Sooners as a dominant football program, which continues to this day. Bud was 6-1 in major bowls, including 4-0 in the Orange Bowl as the Big 8 rep facing the ACC champion or rep. (At the time schools could not represent their conferences in consecutive years -- a blow clearly aimed at spreading the wealth in the Big 8 -- known at the time as Oklahoma and the Seven Dwarfs).

    As I have commented elsewhere, Bud contributed running and kick returner Jay to Duke, clearly reflecting his admiration for Duke and Bill Murray. Jay's older brother went to Stanford.

    sagegrouse

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Woody Hayes (#27) is ranked ahead of Bud Wilkinson (#29) in the list. This is a bit of a joke. At the time he retired, Bud Wilkinson would have been ranked with Knute Rockne at the top of the heap of all-time college football coaches. Bear Bryant, over the next decade or so, moved into this company. I can't imagine what would have led to the diminution of Bud's rep except the passage of time.

    sagegrouse

    You make good points. However, Bud's brief return to coaching, this time in the NFL, where he compiled a 9-20 record in 2 season with the St. Louis Cardinals, did not enhance his record. I still think Coach Wilkinson deserves to be ranked higher than Woody Hayes based on bringing Oklahoma to prominence, but it's a fairly close decision.

    As to another point, perhaps the list was restricted to the most popular professional and college sports; otherwise, there are several "minor sport" coaches who deserve to be on such a list.

  10. #10
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    Washington DC
    Dean Smith did less with more than any great college basketball coach ever. 2 titles with Jordan, Perkins, Worthy, Stackhouse, Wallace, Daughtery, Kenny Smith, etc. I'm not so sure that his efforts in integrating the game were better than other coaches at the time, but I'm young so I wasnt there. I dont think he was innovative as an x's and o's guy either. Four corners? That was and is a regressive offense that's bad for the game.

    I suspect Coach K will move up the list with 1,000 career victories, a second gold medal and another national championship or two. He has adapted to changing circumstances in recruiting, coaching, rules while also being a huge advocate for players with the NCAA.

    Should we even get into Dean Smith's huge flaws like sweeping legal and personnel issues under the rug so consistently that it's shameful? Guess the Sporting News probably didnt know about all that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by theAlaskanBear View Post
    How Dean Smith got in there above BOTH Coach K and Bobby K and Adolph Rupp is beyond me.

    Travesty, a damn travesty!
    A travesty, a sham, and a mockery. Its a traveshamockery!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Should we even get into Dean Smith's huge flaws like sweeping legal and personnel issues under the rug so consistently that it's shameful? Guess the Sporting News probably didnt know about all that.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/...ain69524.shtml

    You wouldn't by chance be referring to Phil Ford's history of driving under the influence? Why, that first arrest in Michigan, which el-Deano apparently helped to keep quiet, "only" involved a Blood Alcohol reading of 0.26%. Could happen to anyone.

  13. #13
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    North Carolina
    Well, the Charlotte Observer is making a big deal about Roy Williams not making the list..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    Well, the Charlotte Observer is making a big deal about Roy Williams not making the list..
    No offense to any folks here who live in the Charlotte area, but how do you stand it? They might as well paint that whole town light blue.

  15. #15
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    Charlotte? Raleigh?

    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    Well, the Charlotte Observer is making a big deal about Roy Williams not making the list..
    The Charlotte Observer and the News & Observer in Raleigh use many of the same reporters and stories. The notion attributed to the Charlotte Observer in this case originated in Raleigh. I view it as part of what local papers are doing more than ever to entice buyers to buy a hard copy of their newspaper.... telling readers what they want affirmed.

  16. #16
    Don Shula #5? Had Dan Marino and couldn't figure out how to win a Super Bowl with him?

  17. #17
    Is college baseball really a "minor" sport? The college world series is pretty darn popular. I'd argue that college baseball is at least as big as women's college basketball, and there are a few of those coaches on the list. Plus, as brevity pointed out, they had a guy on there listed for the NHL who REALLY made his bones in the Olympics and college. At least when Dedeaux was coaching, it was a money making sport at USC.

  18. #18
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    Wink Sagegrouse reviews the hoops coaches

    Here is the list of college basketball coaches:

    1. John Wooden
    8. Dean Smith
    16. Bob Knight
    19. Mike Krzyzewski
    21. Adolph Rupp
    31. Pete Newell
    47. Hank Iba

    Pete Newell, despite his NCAA championship at Cal and his legendary status as a coach of "big men," doesn't belong on this list, or if so, he is sui generis (one of a kind). I would add Phog Allen for his record and his connection back to James Naismith.

    The ones next in line IMHO (the H is always silent) are old timers Branch McCracken of Indiana and Joe Lapchick of St. Johns, and then recent or current coaches Lute Olson, Jim Calhoun and Ol' Roy himself. Everett Case raised the level of basketeball in an entire region but did not have the national record.

    But truthfully, I think six of the listed seven are unassailable.

    sagegrouse

  19. #19
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    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Wink Sagegrouse reviews college football coaches

    Here are the college football coaches from the Top 50 list:

    3. Bear Bryant
    10. Knute Rockne
    13. Joe Paterno
    23. Eddie Robinson
    24. Bobby Bowden
    27. Woody Hayes
    29. Bud Wilkinson
    34. Tom Osborne
    36. Bo Schembechler
    40. Amos Alonzo Stagg
    44. Ara Parseghian

    Eddie Robinson and A.A. Stagg are sui generis and hard to compare with anyone. I am happy to accept them on my list.

    Woody Hayes? No! Expelled for character and marginal based on his record. Bo Schembechler? He is there as a bookend to Woody. No NCs; two Rose Bowl wins. Probably not. And by his time (1969-1989), the Big Ten was nowhere near the best conference.

    Ara? My sainted grandmother in heaven made me a Notre Dame fan, but Ara is not one of the Top 50.

    I would keep Paterno and Bowden, even though I give little credit to longevity compared with brilliance. But Bowden put FSU on the map. Joe Pa assumed the reins after Rip Engel, who was quite successful. Joe's record upon joining the Big Ten was amazing.

    Who's missing? No coaches from USC, one of the two or three greatest football programs of all time? Well, John McKay won four NCs and nine Pac Ten (or predecessor) championships in 16 years. He's on my list.

    Frank Leahy, who won four NCs at Notre Dame in the 1940s and nearly 90% of his games, makes it as well.

    For my last pick, I might go with Darrell Royal. Or perhaps youngster Pete Carroll at USC. I could have picked Lou Holtz, who was successful at a whole bunch of schools, but I don't want the abuse from the DBR readership. Spurrier would be on the list if he had stayed at UF instead of going to the NFL. Perhaps I am overlooking another old-timer (Gen. Neyland, Wallace Wade).

    sagegrouse

  20. #20
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    Feb 2007
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    Born on 3rd base

    Quote Originally Posted by dukebsbll14 View Post
    Well, the Charlotte Observer is making a big deal about Roy Williams not making the list..
    Roy Williams was born on 3rd base ...twice!

    Has God ever smiled on a new coach (twice) in quite the same way?

    He walked into 2 of the top 5 college programs and did well. But he took neither to the next level, nor did he build from the basement or even from mediocrity.

    And he should have won a title with Pierce, Laefrentz, Pollard and Vaughn.

    Jim Calhoun is better, although possibly even less likeable.

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