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  1. #1101
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    there are lots of articles on the web about Kentucky--most seem to come out of Kansas, oddly enough (eg, http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1769) but there's still ample evidence that UK has been consistently cheating for about 70 years. Between the track record of an out-of-control coach and an out-of-control program, there's ample likelihood that the team will get into some sort of NCAA trouble within the next 4 years. Would Doc Rivers' son go to such a place when he could go anywhere? I agree that it's unlikely.

  2. #1102
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeFreakShow View Post
    I wouldnt call Kentucky a dirty program at all. It's one of the great college basketball programs. Just the coach.
    Really? Somehow I get the sense that you are not being sarcastic with that post? If you were being sarcastic then apologies. If you were serious, do a bit of research starting with an article linked a couple of posts in front of mine and you may change your opinion.

    Kentucky has bucket fulls of dirt in it's history. From points shaving to gambling to paying recruits to academic fraud, etc etc. Heck they even had to decline to play in the NCAA tourney one year when it was found just before the tourney started that several of their star players on that team had actually graduated the previous year and were not even supposed to be on the team. They were told all of those players would be ineligible for the tourney so they declined to play.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  3. #1103
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    Thanks for proving my point. IMO, this post would constitute needless posting...hopefully you're being sarcastic.
    I find no redeeming qualities in that post.
    I will come to the defense of Scottdude just a little bit on this one. I may be wrong SilkyJ and if I am say so, but there has been a lot of needless posting lately. It is up noticeably in several threads, and I get the sense that maybe you are taking out your frustrations on Scottdude when maybe it should have been directed at other posters? If wrong, I apologize.

    The post by Scottdude was really not that bad except for passing along just a smidgeon of info obtained from someone who is a member of a premium site. That is frowned upon around here because it is not fair to those who pay to be members of sites like that. But in saying that, he really did not share anything that most didn't already expect anyway.

    Just thinking maybe you came down a little hard on the guy. There are several others that probably deserved that wrath instead of SD. I do respect both sides of this one and mainly I'm making a small attempt to keep the peace.

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  4. #1104
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.
    Further posts in this thread not related to Austin Rivers and/or violent rodents will be deleted.

    Please leave the moderating to the moderators. If you think a post does not belong in a thread, for whatever reason, use the "report post" feature, and let us handle it. Trying to be a moderator yourself just sets you up to take the sort of abuse that we take, and it's all out in public where nobody wants to see it.

    Needless posting is discouraged. Yes, in the offseason when things are slower, we tend to be a little more lax, but this thread has taken several tangents that probably should have been reined in by us. Please restrain yourselves.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: “People ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. That’s kind of the same thing.”

  5. #1105
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    there are lots of articles on the web about Kentucky--most seem to come out of Kansas, oddly enough (eg, http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/1769) but there's still ample evidence that UK has been consistently cheating for about 70 years. Between the track record of an out-of-control coach and an out-of-control program, there's ample likelihood that the team will get into some sort of NCAA trouble within the next 4 years. Would Doc Rivers' son go to such a place when he could go anywhere? I agree that it's unlikely.
    I agree. I find it hard to lend myself to the thought that Rivers would consider going to Kentucky. He is already going to have to face the backlash of withdrawing his commit to FL. Signing on at Kentucky would mean he would have to face FL twice, and one of those would be in Gainsville. I don't think he wants to deal with that drama. He seems like the kind of kid that thinks out his decisions well ahead of time.

    Which brings me to another point I've been hearing tossed around from several different fans in the ACC, not just Duke fans. This is just speculation, and I don't know yet if I buy into it or not, but I keep hearing that Rivers opened up the recruiting process to UNC, UK etc. so it didn't look so obvious that he just flat-out was dumping FL for Duke. The arguement is that he wants to keep his relationships with everyone around that organization as civil as possible, and dropping UF like a bad habit for Duke and only Duke could not go over well with a lot of people. If you haven't heard, some fans don't really like Duke that much.(see Glee episode)

    Again, total speculation, but I thought it was intersting, and I refuse to talk about sword-swinging rodents.

  6. #1106
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by left_hook_lacey View Post
    I agree. I find it hard to lend myself to the thought that Rivers would consider going to Kentucky. He is already going to have to face the backlash of withdrawing his commit to FL. Signing on at Kentucky would mean he would have to face FL twice, and one of those would be in Gainsville. I don't think he wants to deal with that drama. He seems like the kind of kid that thinks out his decisions well ahead of time.

    Which brings me to another point I've been hearing tossed around from several different fans in the ACC, not just Duke fans. This is just speculation, and I don't know yet if I buy into it or not, but I keep hearing that Rivers opened up the recruiting process to UNC, UK etc. so it didn't look so obvious that he just flat-out was dumping FL for Duke. The arguement is that he wants to keep his relationships with everyone around that organization as civil as possible, and dropping UF like a bad habit for Duke and only Duke could not go over well with a lot of people. If you haven't heard, some fans don't really like Duke that much.(see Glee episode)

    Again, total speculation, but I thought it was intersting, and I refuse to talk about sword-swinging rodents.
    I think you're on the right track.

    What I get out of following the Rivers' recruitment story is that he wants to be absolutely sure about his choice when he does announce. He realizes that his commitment to Florida the first time around came too early.

    So, additional visits, additional schools to consider---all just part of a process that he wants to follow, and his decision will come in due time, this summer I'd say.

  7. #1107

    Kentucky

    Quote Originally Posted by Boozer View Post
    Kentucky has bucket fulls of dirt in it's history. From points shaving to gambling to paying recruits to academic fraud, etc etc. Heck they even had to decline to play in the NCAA tourney one year when it was found just before the tourney started that several of their star players on that team had actually graduated the previous year and were not even supposed to be on the team. They were told all of those players would be ineligible for the tourney so they declined to play.
    Far be it from me to defend Kentucky -- I agree that they are historically one of the most sleazy programs in the country ... Rupp practically invented cheating.

    But I think you are a bit unfair about your characterization of the 1954 Kentucky team, which turned down the NCAA Tournament because it started three grad students (including future Celtics star Frank Ramsey).

    What happened is that those three players were key players as sophomores in 1951, when they played on a national championship team.

    Kentucky was very good again in 1952, winning 29 games and finishing No. 1 in the final AP poll before they were upset by Frank McGuire's St. John's team in Reynolds Coliseum (a win so impressive that UNC hired McGuire to revive their program).

    After the season, Kentucky was hit by the point shaving scandal. Part of the fallout of the all the revelations was that the 1953 season was cancelled -- essentially the first NCAA death penalty.

    Ramsey and his two classmates -- who were not involved in the point-shaving conspiracy -- graduated and were all three drafted by the NBA. But having played just two varsity seasons, all three elected to return to play a senior year at Kentucky and attend graduate school.

    That was 1954 -- Kentucky again finished No. 1 in the country. Under current NCAA rules, Ramsey and company would have been eligible to play in the NCAA Tournament ... they had played just three seasons as everybody else did. But under the rules at the time, the NCAA didn't allow grad students to participate in the tournament -- and rather than play without its three senior stars, Kentucky declined to participate.

    Now, I think Kentucky has done a lot of shameful things in its history, but this is not one of them.

    The NCAA was at fault -- during this era they prevented K.C. Jones from participating in the 1956 NCAA Tournament. His problem was his sophomore season, when he played one game, then missed the rest of the season with appendicitis. The school and the conference gave him a hardship waiver, but the NCAA had no hardship provisions at the time and banned him from the tourney (San Francisco won anyway) his senior year.

    N.C. State was screwed by the NCAA in 1951.

    During WWII, freshman eligibility rules were relaxed to allow schools to field teams. After the war, some confrerences re-instated freshman ineligibity -- some did not. The Southern Conference allowed freshmen to play (which is how Dickie Hemric played four years and set a scoring record that stood for 50 years).

    In 1950, N.C. State finished third in the NCAA Tournament with a team dominated by three junior stars -- Sammy Ranzino, Vic Bubas and Paul Horvath.

    After 1950, the NCAA took steps to limit freshmen eligibility by decreeing that no freshmen could participate in bowl games or the NCAA basketball tournament (although allowing conferences to set their own rules for regular season play).

    Fair enough ... only the NCAA went one step farther and said that postseason participants would only be allowed three varsity seasons and that any athlete who played as a freshman -- BEFORE THE NCAA RULING -- would be ineligible as a senior.

    Ranzino, Bubas and Horvath had played as freshmen in 1948, when it was perfectly legal to do so. When they won the Southern Conference Tournament in 1951 as seniors, they were banned from the NCAA Tournament. The three seniors -- the team's best three players -- didn't play as State lost in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.

    I'd put Kentucky in 1954 in a class with N.C. State in 1951 and San Francisco in 1956 as victims of an unfair NCAA ruling ...

    There's plenty of other stuff to slam the Wildcats for.

  8. #1108
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Columbia, North Carolina
    Just choose Duke and enjoy the ride.

  9. #1109
    Thanks "Olympic Fan" for the elegant response with specifics re: the Kentucky situation. Your posting is an excellent example of why I come to this site every day. Being fair means always being fair. BTW, I still don't like them, and I can't stand their coach. Compared to Kentucky and Carowhiner, DUKE really is the only "true blue"... Unrelated question: where is Jumbo??? I have missed his expertise and gentle jibes. Does he take the off season off?? I don't want to wish my life away, but I can't wait for DUKE basketball '10-'11 to crank up..

  10. #1110
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    raleigh nc

    good news... for now.

    http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.c...sp?CID=1081311

    my friend at work is an insider on rivals and showed me the article today, sounded good!

  11. #1111
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Va
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeBlueNV View Post
    http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.c...sp?CID=1081311

    my friend at work is an insider on rivals and showed me the article today, sounded good!
    Haha I was just about to post this. I'm not a premium member but the teaser certainly is good enough for me!

  12. #1112
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    raleigh nc
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterRoddy View Post
    Haha I was just about to post this. I'm not a premium member but the teaser certainly is good enough for me!
    it was good.. but doesnt seem to be a done deal yet. there was a line in the article that was not a direct quote from rivers, but it still made me a bit nervous. but lets just say if i were using this article (ontop of previous info)to place a bet on where he will go to school i wouldnt hesitate to put the money on duke.

  13. #1113
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    20 Minutes From The Heaven That Is Cameron Indoor

    I stand corrected!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Far be it from me to defend Kentucky -- I agree that they are historically one of the most sleazy programs in the country ... Rupp practically invented cheating.

    But I think you are a bit unfair about your characterization of the 1954 Kentucky team, which turned down the NCAA Tournament because it started three grad students (including future Celtics star Frank Ramsey).
    And far be it from me to not admit an error. I somehow missed the portion of the story that you clarified and you are right that is a totally different deal and does NOT classify as dirty. Thanks for setting me straight.

    As for Rivers, I take no news as good news. I was a bit worried when ol'roy came prancing onto the scene, but that talk has quieted down thankfully. I make no predictions. In reading his Diaries, I get the vibe that Duke is the favorite, and as I have stated earlier, unlike past Diaries on the HSH site, when reading Austin's it comes across as the genuine thoughts of a 17 year old. He does not seem to be "choosing words carefully" or "toying" with his audience.

    We will know soon enough.

    Isn't it ironic though that as recent as last fall, the vibe was that we were way behind our rival in both recruiting and results on the court, and seemed desperate to sign top notch talent and sign it soon? We hadn't done "this" "since", and hadn't been to "that" "since" yada yada yada

    Now here we are, National Champions, got the best PG in the nation coming in, Singler is staying for his Senior year, we have a wealth of guards and are the favorite for one of the best guards in the country in Rivers but with the luxury of knowing that if he goes elsewhere we still have great talent to put out there in his spot anyway....

    Life is good boys.. Life is real good..

    "[T]he tarnished Tar Heels that bear little resemblance to the revered program built by Dean Smith."- Ashville Times
    "UNC and the NCAA are trying to conceal that the fraud was specifically designed to pad the transcripts of varsity athletes" - Bloomberg

  14. #1114
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Quote Originally Posted by Boozer View Post
    Isn't it ironic though that as recent as last fall, the vibe was that we were way behind our rival in both recruiting and results on the court, and seemed desperate to sign top notch talent and sign it soon? We hadn't done "this" "since", and hadn't been to "that" "since" yada yada yada

    Now here we are, National Champions, got the best PG in the nation coming in, Singler is staying for his Senior year, we have a wealth of guards and are the favorite for one of the best guards in the country in Rivers but with the luxury of knowing that if he goes elsewhere we still have great talent to put out there in his spot anyway....

    Life is good boys.. Life is real good..
    Well, said, my friend. I have been thinking these same exact thoughts (or similar ones, anyway, I don't want to get into a copyright dispute or a plagiarism charge) for some time.

  15. #1115
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Richmond, Va
    Quote Originally Posted by Boozer View Post
    And far be it from me to not admit an error. I somehow missed the portion of the story that you clarified and you are right that is a totally different deal and does NOT classify as dirty. Thanks for setting me straight.

    As for Rivers, I take no news as good news. I was a bit worried when ol'roy came prancing onto the scene, but that talk has quieted down thankfully. I make no predictions. In reading his Diaries, I get the vibe that Duke is the favorite, and as I have stated earlier, unlike past Diaries on the HSH site, when reading Austin's it comes across as the genuine thoughts of a 17 year old. He does not seem to be "choosing words carefully" or "toying" with his audience.

    We will know soon enough.

    Isn't it ironic though that as recent as last fall, the vibe was that we were way behind our rival in both recruiting and results on the court, and seemed desperate to sign top notch talent and sign it soon? We hadn't done "this" "since", and hadn't been to "that" "since" yada yada yada

    Now here we are, National Champions, got the best PG in the nation coming in, Singler is staying for his Senior year, we have a wealth of guards and are the favorite for one of the best guards in the country in Rivers but with the luxury of knowing that if he goes elsewhere we still have great talent to put out there in his spot anyway....

    Life is good boys.. Life is real good..
    It certainly is.

    I remember reading an article by old Maryland homer Ben Goldstein in the wake of Terrence Ross decommiting...

    http://www.testudotimes.com/2009/12/...ross-decommits

    Back on topic...strictly speculation...If we do get Rivers, do you guys think itd be likely that Duke would go to a 3-guard rotation for 2011?

  16. #1116
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    raleigh nc
    "Back on topic...strictly speculation...If we do get Rivers, do you guys think itd be likely that Duke would go to a 3-guard rotation for 2011?"

    i hope so... an irving, curry, rivers backcourt is so rediculously talented i cant even wrap my brain around it... can anyone think of a group of guards with that much talent on the same team? wow. (not to mention dawkins as well)

  17. #1117
    A quick thought about an Irving, Rivers, Curry lineup. To be honest, I prefer this year's guard lineup even better simply because of Nolan's defense, leadership, and experience.

    However, I do agree that the Irving, Curry, Rivers lineup would be as good as you can ask for to follow up on this year's guard lineup. Both of which feature Dawkins.

    Now, if we are fortunate enough to keep Kyrie for a junior year, and you combine that with Curry (junior), Rivers (sophmore, if he were to stay), and Dawkins (senior), that would just be scary.

    Someone please wake me up.

  18. #1118
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    On the couch
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Well, said, my friend. I have been thinking these same exact thoughts (or similar ones, anyway, I don't want to get into a copyright dispute or a plagiarism charge) for some time.
    I have been saying essentially the same thing as both of you as well. I just would like to caution folks, don't get too high when things are going well nor too low when they are not... BUT things are looking really good right now!!

  19. #1119
    I think there's a bit from the rivals article,in this article.Sure sounds promising!

    http://cameronkrazy.wordpress.com/20...vers-update-2/

  20. #1120
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by t-baller22 View Post
    I think there's a bit from the rivals article,in this article.Sure sounds promising!

    http://cameronkrazy.wordpress.com/20...vers-update-2/
    There is indeed info from the Rivals article on that website, but there should not be. Hopefully the author of that site will delete the quotes it lifted--or any paraphrasing thereof.

    But back on topic: Eventually, all things merge into one, and a Rivers runs through it.

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