The Kindle

[Truth]

This looks like the right place to say that I'm looking to sell a Kindle 2. Due to some poor communication among friends, I somehow wound up with three, yes THREE, Kindle 2's. This is on top of the original Kindle that I already owned.

I use one (and absolutely LOVE IT) and quickly sold another on Craigslist, but for no reason other than general laziness, I've yet to sell the 3rd. It's completely new, still factory-sealed in the original Amazon packing.

Sadly, the devices were purchased back when the Kindle 2 was selling for $359 (excluding $25+ in NY sales taxes), so I'd like to get somewhere really close to the current retail price of $299 for it so I don't incur too much additional loss. Also looking to get rid of the original Kindle 1 that I used prior to getting the K2...

PM me if you're interested...

[DukeCrow]

I don't think most people understand the benefits of e-ink technology and how it is vastly superior to LCD when it comes to long-form reading. An iphone, Apple tablet, etc. all emit light and cause eye strain when used for extended periods of time, while an e-ink display is reflective and really is as close to reading off paper as one can get with current display technology (I'm sure improvements will come in leaps and bounds over the next several years, of course). Also, phones, tablets, netbooks, laptops, etc. with their LCD displays are especially hard to read in sunlight, while e-ink excels in this regard. So one can take their e-ink based ebook reader with them and read outside the sterile environment of home, office, school, etc. just like you can with a real book, and you can do so for hours on end (since the battery is only used when "turning" the page and not when the page is being displayed).

One thing most people don't know about is that many libraries across the US allow members to "borrow" ebooks online for free. The company most often used to supply the ebook borrowing infrastructure is Overdrive (they also do online audio book lending through libraries). Check out http://www.overdrive.com/ and http://search.overdrive.com/ The Sony ebook reader is the most compatible with the ebooks offered through Overdrive, as it can handle Adobe Digital Editions ebooks as well as epub ebooks (epub formatted books are the preferred format as the text easily reflows). So being able to read free books makes the value proposition of the Sony Reader much more obvious (even compared with the $10 Kindle ebooks). I love Overdrive and borrow audiobooks and ebooks all the time. It helps if you have membership at multiple libraries, though, as the selection varies from library to library.

The best site on the net for ebook info is http://www.mobileread.com/

Hope that helps.

[YmoBeThere]

Thanks for all the input. I'm putting off the decision until Christmas time.

[throatybeard]

I don't think most people understand the benefits of e-ink technology and how it is vastly superior to LCD when it comes to long-form reading.

My complain isn't screen quality. I assume that will continue to improve. My complaint is that I'm replacing a non-screen-based activity with staring at yet another screen. The thing could be emitting Erin Andrews' scent, and I'd still prefer a real book or magazine. We've become a bunch of screen-staring zombies. It's driving me crazy.

[ojaidave]

My complain isn't screen quality. I assume that will continue to improve. My complaint is that I'm replacing a non-screen-based activity with staring at yet another screen. The thing could be emitting Erin Andrews' scent, and I'd still prefer a real book or magazine. We've become a bunch of screen-staring zombies. It's driving me crazy.

I don't understand the distinction you're making. I could understand the argument that you're against a traditional, light-emitting screen because you have something against constant eyeball bombardment. In the case of the Kindle though, it is a passive, reflective medium. Like a book or magazine page.

I sympathize with the romantic attachment to books, and until the kindle I was right there with you. I have a difficult time processing information from a computer screen and typically print out important documents to read. I have found, though, that I am able to enjoy reading off of a Kindle as much as reading from a book.

True, you don't get the satisfaction of turning a page, or of placing a dog-ear in the corner - but you do get to take the three (or 30) novels you're reading with you wherever you go - like outside in a cafe, or on a picnic, or on a train, bus, couch, etc...

So call me a fan.

[DukeUsul]

Count me as one who likes to have stacks and stacks of paperbacks on bookshelves and in boxes. No one is going to come and take them away from me based on some licensing agreement.

Also count me as someone who has never purchased digital music. I'm no Luddite (believe me you should see all my electronic crap) but I like to own a CD and not be told what I can and can't do with it.

[Jarhead]

From the beginning of this thread I have felt more like throatybeard and DukUsul on the issue of e-books. I'm one who even prefers hard cover over paperback, and I prefer my music the old fashioned way. The deepest I have taken myself into downloaded music is You-tube for the Eagles, the Flight of the Conchords, Marty Balin, and just a few of my favorite jazz artists. Reading from the computer screen is not as pleasant as reading from an open book, but I didn't know about e-paper. Then Mrs. Jarhead comes home from hear weekly Mah Jongg lunch and whatever they do with those funny tiles for hours at a time. She was telling me about the Kindle 2 that the husband of this week's hostess was showing off. She was asking questions that I, of all people, could not answer.

So thanks to this thread and google, I have learned something. Not much, and thanks to DukeCrow, for his links, but I found at least two devices that piqued my interest. The Kindle 2 and the Sony ebook Reader look to be competitors, but they were the only ones on which could get much info. Kindle 2 lists at Amazon for $299 and the Sony Reader lists at Costco for $269. The only real difference I could find was the wireless capability of the Kindle 2. Is that a deal maker? I don't know.

The question remains, though, am I ready for this? The cost is the major hurdle. Yeah, I know. I read hard covers, and they are not cheap, but I get many of them in trades with other folks. That makes them cheaper. If push comes to shove I can buy the paper back edition. Either way my first ten e-books will total somewhere north of $400, and what happens if I can't adapt on my first couple of books. It would be okay if I like the medium. Maybe I should try it out on the Mrs., first.

[ojaidave]

Kindle 2 lists at Amazon for $299 and the Sony Reader lists at Costco for $269. The only real difference I could find was the wireless capability of the Kindle 2. Is that a deal maker? I don't know.

Don't forget to add 29.99 for the Kindle cover (you'll really want to have this). I don't know anything about the Sony product so I won't even try to offer advice one way or the other.

Good luck.

[hc5duke]

Also count me as someone who has never purchased digital music. I'm no Luddite (believe me you should see all my electronic crap) but I like to own a CD and not be told what I can and can't do with it.

I could be wrong, but if you were to make copies of that CD and give it to a bunch of friends, that would be the same as copying an MP3 file and distributing them. The only difference is the latter method is cheaper/easier.

I don't buy from iTunes store because they use a non standard format, but I buy all my music through AmazonMP3. When a used CD and the digital equivalent both cost roughly the same amount, why bother with the CD at all? Plus, I get to download the MP3 version immediately and add to my computer and phone right away.

[DukeUsul]

I could be wrong, but if you were to make copies of that CD and give it to a bunch of friends, that would be the same as copying an MP3 file and distributing them. The only difference is the latter method is cheaper/easier.

I don't buy from iTunes store because they use a non standard format, but I buy all my music through AmazonMP3. When a used CD and the digital equivalent both cost roughly the same amount, why bother with the CD at all? Plus, I get to download the MP3 version immediately and add to my computer and phone right away.

I never said I give the music away. But I have the ultimate power of choosing the bitrate and format in which it's compressed. I don't have to worry about losing a hard drive and hoping that the digital music store allows me to download it again. I don't have to worry about mp3 files encumbered with DRM that allows the music store to rescind my rights.

I understand that Amazon MP3 doesn't come encumbered with DRM, but I don't want to buy all my music from someone without a guarantee that if my hard drive crashed whether they'd allow me to re-download everything. The only real guarantee you can get is to get the CD.

From the AmazonMP3 TOS:

Can I download another copy of my MP3 files after the initial purchase?

Your Amazon MP3 Music purchases can only be downloaded once. After you have successfully downloaded the file to your computer at the time of purchase, we recommend that you create a backup copy.

We are currently unable to replace any purchased files that you delete or lose due to a system or disk error. If you encounter a problem with an MP3 file immediately after purchase, please click the Customer Service button in the Contact Us box in the right-hand column of this page so we can determine how to help you.

[Matches]

I don't understand the distinction you're making. I could understand the argument that you're against a traditional, light-emitting screen because you have something against constant eyeball bombardment. In the case of the Kindle though, it is a passive, reflective medium. Like a book or magazine page.

I sympathize with the romantic attachment to books, and until the kindle I was right there with you. I have a difficult time processing information from a computer screen and typically print out important documents to read. I have found, though, that I am able to enjoy reading off of a Kindle as much as reading from a book.

True, you don't get the satisfaction of turning a page, or of placing a dog-ear in the corner - but you do get to take the three (or 30) novels you're reading with you wherever you go - like outside in a cafe, or on a picnic, or on a train, bus, couch, etc...

So call me a fan.

Question for you (or anyone else who has used these)... have you tried them out on the beach? Can you get them wet or clean them easily if they get sand on them? Sorry if that's a dumb question. I'm genuinely curious - considering the switchover but i do enjoy beach reading and want to see if this will allow for that.

[UrinalCake]

Count me in as another happy user of the Kindle 2. Between my wife and I we'll easily make up the cost in about a year based on the number of books we purchase. Certain books we'll still purchase in print, either because they're not available on the Kindle, or because we want to read it and then pass it along to someone else, or because we just want to have a copy sitting on our bookshelf.

The adjustable font is definitely a huge plus for those needing it - many books are unavailable in large print and so there would be no other way to get them.

I also use the iPhone app, which is free, so I can read the same books that I've already purchased on my iPhone. I wouldn't want to read for hours on this, but for short periods of time it's fine.

Another factor pertains to the overall "experience" of the Kindle... some people like for others to see what they're reading while they're sitting in a coffee shop. It gives them a feeling of intelligence, or of fitting into society. There was an article about this in the NY Times I think that explains this phenomenon better than I am... but something you might notice if you do decide to buy one.

Good luck with your decision.

[UrinalCake]

Matches, if you're going to use it on the beach I would recommend purchasing the cover. It's just like any electronic device as far as weatherproof-ness. The cover is nice and really easy to remove.

[Matches]

Cool; thanks. Now to convince the wife it's a good idea...

[The Gordog]

Count me as one who likes to have stacks and stacks of paperbacks on bookshelves and in boxes. No one is going to come and take them away from me based on some licensing agreement.

Also count me as someone who has never purchased digital music. I'm no Luddite (believe me you should see all my electronic crap) but I like to own a CD and not be told what I can and can't do with it.

Nail, meet head.

With the Kindle they can take away a book that is deemed [insert whatever euphamism you want] AFTER you have paid for it. Why bother burning books, say the new fascists, when we can just erase them at the touch of a button?

[hc5duke]

I never said I give the music away. But I have the ultimate power of choosing the bitrate and format in which it's compressed. I don't have to worry about losing a hard drive and hoping that the digital music store allows me to download it again. I don't have to worry about mp3 files encumbered with DRM that allows the music store to rescind my rights.

I understand that Amazon MP3 doesn't come encumbered with DRM, but I don't want to buy all my music from someone without a guarantee that if my hard drive crashed whether they'd allow me to re-download everything. The only real guarantee you can get is to get the CD.

You are probably more careful with your music collection than I, because I don't know how many CDs I've had go missing and simply disappear, or only to find it later under some pile of paper or books (see, real books *are* bad ) with scratches on it. I am also more careful with my digital bits than most people, backing up things constantly. There is almost no chance that my mp3 files will go missing, whereas with CDs it's a matter of when I will lose it/break it.

Another deciding factor is that 90% of the time I'm listening to music on my computer, and the other 10% on a portable player of some sort. Even my car came standard with a MP3 CD player. I have 0 need for a music CD.

[Matches]

Another deciding factor is that 90% of the time I'm listening to music on my computer, and the other 10% on a portable player of some sort. Even my car came standard with a MP3 CD player. I have 0 need for a music CD.

The older I get, the more storage becomes an issue. I had piles and piles of CDs before I got an iPod. Now I have none.

I accumulate books the same way. I read 25-30 books a year, and then they go on bookshelves. Every year I end up going through and getting rid of a bunch of them just to save space.

That was all well and good when I was a single guy living alone. Now I'm married with two kids. Space gets more and more precious with each passing year. I'm not planning to move anytime soon, but the last several times I did, I had to drag along boxes full of books and CDs. Anything that saves me space is IMO a good idea.

[mgtr]

I never said I give the music away. But I have the ultimate power of choosing the bitrate and format in which it's compressed. I don't have to worry about losing a hard drive and hoping that the digital music store allows me to download it again. I don't have to worry about mp3 files encumbered with DRM that allows the music store to rescind my rights.

I understand that Amazon MP3 doesn't come encumbered with DRM, but I don't want to buy all my music from someone without a guarantee that if my hard drive crashed whether they'd allow me to re-download everything. The only real guarantee you can get is to get the CD.

I agree with your point of view about both books and CDs. However, sometimes I do download MP3s from various (legal) sources. I accumulate a number of them, and then burn them onto a CD (in CD format), which gives me a backup, and then rip them back into the computer as MP3s -- bye, bye digital rights, and any chance of anyone messing with my (bought and paid for ) music.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it really isn't. Now I have the song on my computer, my MP3 player, and on CD.