The Kindle

[YmoBeThere]

Does anyone here have some thoughts they could share on it? I'm debating whether to purchase one in the near future. I would however have to give up the perverse pleasure of splaying books across all objects in the household. (For some reason on top of the refrigerator got to be a convenient resting place.)

PS I didn't want to bump the thread from January '08.

[fuse]

I've only seen 2 of the new Kindles, not the original.
Both owners loved them and raved about them.

My primary issue with the Kindle is price, but one owner suggested with the difference in hardcover cost and the $10 download price that he had already calculated a 200-300 dollar savings after buying the Kindle.

I don't buy that personally.

The model that would be great if it worked would be for the newspaper and magazine industries to offer to subsidize a Kindle ($99 maybe?) in return for some subscription commitment.

The only thing I see as broken with the Kindle, having only seen them for a few minutes each time is that there is a high cost of entry- Amazon still doesn't get the razor/razor blade analogy apparently.

There was an article floating around somewhere (cnet maybe?) that spoke about the biggest barrier to happiness with a kindle is whether or not you were tied to the "look, feel and smell" of books. If that is an important part of your reading experience beyond the content you are reading, the article suggested a kindle (or any e-reader) would not be for you.

I've not seen it but I have heard people with iphones and ipod touch enjoy using that as an e-reader also.

Good luck!

[Deslok]

I just got a Kindle 2 last week(actually as an early Christmas present) and I love it. For someone who lives overseas, its a godsend. One of the more frustrating things for me the last few years was the lack of options I had for English language books that I could purchase in Korea. Now, that's no longer a problem(of course, I have to have a US credit card and a computer to download the books to before transfering them to the Kindle via USB, but that's not a problem in my case). I like the look and feel of reading with it, the Kindle DX is larger than the Kindle 2, and one of the criticisms of it(aside from the higher price) is that it is too large and heavy to read like a book, like say in bed on your back holding it up, whereas that's not an issue with the Kindle 2. As far as price goes, I think you can make an argument about it being cost effective if you do read a lot. Most books are 9.99 or less, which for a new release in hardcover is at least $15 off the print edition. One of the other nice features is that books from before 1900 or so that have passed into public domain are generally free on the Kindle, so I can read some of the things I've always meant to get around to reading, for free. Plus there are some new authors who they've put their first book on their for free, in hopes of encouraging people to buy their later books at the regular price.

Also, if you travel a lot, it is soooo much simpler to carry around a Kindle rather than the 8 or 9 books I was carrying around for the first half of my summer travels. In short, I love it, and particularly if you live overseas I'd encourage you to get it, even for folks who live in the US it can be a worthwhile purchase but in that case its more up to the individual user.

[littlejohn]

I bought my wife one for her birthday in March and she loves it. I bought the new Kindle 2 for her.

She has taken it on 3 trips so far, and wouldn't go on one without it. She reads every night in bed as well, and finds it very comfortable to use.

For a moderate to heavy reader you can indeed save a lot of money with the Kindle if you are used to buying new books, especially hardbacks.

Lastly, my brother has both a Kindle 1 & 2, is a monster reader; he wouldn't know what to do without his. He takes to every doc visit or anyplace where he has to wait for something to get done, like an oil change. (As a personal aside for the "young" folks, my brother is 72 and loves technology.) My brother, who has had his Kindle a lot longer, emails free books to my wife to download to her computer & then the Kindle. Works like a charm !

I can't say a lot about personal experience with one, since I can't get it out of my wife's hands long enough to read anything !

little john

[bird]

I have heard positive comments from senior citizens about the ability to adjust font size and obtain books on demand without shopping trips.

[ojaidave]

I have a Kindle and my wife has the Kindle 2. There are a lot of little improvements that make the Kindle 2 the better product. The most significant drawback to these devices is that, like a cell phone, there is not universal coverage. This is no big deal if you've got a bunch of books queued up in the Kindle, but if you run out and happen to be in a poor coverage area - you're out of luck as you can't download directly from a computer to the Kindle. So far, I have found that there is no coverage in Alaska, some rural areas in Virginia, and Yellowstone National Park. I was told that Montana also has limited coverage.

Aside from coverage issues, the Kindle totally rocks and is a terrific device for folks that like to read multiple books in parallel.

[Dukerati]

Yep, totally depends on what you are going to use for. I swear by my Kindle (2) but I have a super long commute each day and use it primarily for reading newspapers and periodicals. I think the reviews are in general, very positive, with the main negative being cost. If you read enough books to make the price worth it, I think the purchase is a no-brainer. If you want it for the "cool" factor, well that's a tougher decision

[hc5duke]

the jury's still out on this but i think it's a huge flop for amazon. grayscale in this day and age is ridiculous, regardless of battery life and whatever else they talk about. I've only demo'ed the first version, but until they add 1) color 2) touch screen 3) pdf reader, this device has a very limited niche market imho. the only saving grace would be if amazon were to take a page from the game console manufacturer's playbook and significantly lower the hardware price (<$100), and recoup the losses from book sales.

along with its recent bad publicity and notoriously not publishing actual (probably meager) sales figures, my guess is once apple's tablet pc comes out later this year, kindle will be done. it may live on as amazon's ebook store, but they can't possibly expect to sell these at the current price range and be profitable.

[DukeUsul]

I've never used one, but I coincidentally happened to read these articles today:

(beware, this one has a big middle-finger graphic of that kind of thing offends your or is not appropriate for work)
http://gizmodo.com/5323699/the-new-y...ezos-headaches

And here's a more favorable review from gizmodo.
http://gizmodo.com/5163042/kindle-2-...like-kindle-15

[InSpades]

the jury's still out on this but i think it's a huge flop for amazon. grayscale in this day and age is ridiculous, regardless of battery life and whatever else they talk about. I've only demo'ed the first version, but until they add 1) color 2) touch screen 3) pdf reader, this device has a very limited niche market imho. the only saving grace would be if amazon were to take a page from the game console manufacturer's playbook and significantly lower the hardware price (<$100), and recoup the losses from book sales.

along with its recent bad publicity and notoriously not publishing actual (probably meager) sales figures, my guess is once apple's tablet pc comes out later this year, kindle will be done. it may live on as amazon's ebook store, but they can't possibly expect to sell these at the current price range and be profitable.

Admittedly I don't have one (though we did just buy one for my mother) but I don't see it as a flop at all. Do you really need colors to read a book? or a newspaper? They've both survived for a long time being in just black and white so far...

As for lowering the price and making up for it in the books... I still don't get this. I realize it is used in the cell phone industry but I don't like it there either. I'd much rather be charged for the actual price instead of charged a lower price for this and a higher price for that. Why should someone who reads lots and lots of books pay more for their Kindle than someone who doesn't read lots of books? By lowering the price of the Kindle and charging more for the books you are basically taxing the heavy users to subsidize the light users. Additionally you'd have to have some sort of subscription setup to force people to spend a minimum amount or you'd risk losing a lot of money.

[littlejohn]

Actually from all the reports of the tech folks who dig behind the scenes the Kindle has been a booming success for Amazon. There is only 1 manufacturer of a key component for any e-reader, so people can make a pretty close approximation of sales. This says nothing of the amount of books Amazon has sold due to having such an e-reader.

Most books do not have color pages in them, and the Kindle was meant to mimic the experience of reading a book, not become some game console.

Lastly, a heavily used touch screen book reader would not be a pretty thing unless you wiped the screen off every few minutes to get the finger prints off.

[ojaidave]

the jury's still out on this but i think it's a huge flop for amazon. grayscale in this day and age is ridiculous, regardless of battery life and whatever else they talk about. I've only demo'ed the first version, but until they add 1) color 2) touch screen 3) pdf reader, this device has a very limited niche market imho. the only saving grace would be if amazon were to take a page from the game console manufacturer's playbook and significantly lower the hardware price (<$100), and recoup the losses from book sales.

along with its recent bad publicity and notoriously not publishing actual (probably meager) sales figures, my guess is once apple's tablet pc comes out later this year, kindle will be done. it may live on as amazon's ebook store, but they can't possibly expect to sell these at the current price range and be profitable.

The Kindle isn't a PC. It isn't a picture frame. Color may come eventually, and whoever cracks that nut will get filthy stinking rich. The applications for a low (to 0) power consuming, reflective, color technology are near endless. Think changeable car colors, wall coverings, etc, etc.

As a Kindle user, I'd say this device is far from a flop. YMMV

[Deslok]

That response seemed to me a bit... erm... well... apple fan-boy-ish(sorry, but that's how it came across to me). I have absolutely 0 interest in the tablet PC that Apple is apparently going to be releasing. As something to read books on, it will, quite simply, stink. Why on earth would I want a book reader that can't allow me to read a single book without recharging the batteries? And yes, I'm aware it will do other things than that. But its the other things that will be the selling point of the device, not its inability to be used as a quality reading device(and to repeat one more time, unless you are using it to read to/with your 5 year old, color is completely irrelavent to the device.

And with regard to sales, the scuttlebutt that I've heard - take with a grain of salt, because it is unverifiable until Amazon actually releases numbers - is that everyone has been pleasantly surprised by the Kindle/Kindle 2's numbers, but that the Kindle DX has had very disappointing numbers(and you have to wonder if things were going so badly, why are 5 different companies scrambling to get in on the market for such a device).

[throatybeard]

I can see how this would be a very useful thing in an extreme situation like Deslok's.

But what I don't understand is why anyone in day-to-day life in the US would want to spend even more time staring at a screen. If you're in the pencil-pushing middle class, you already spend half your waking hours staring at a screen. Then you go home and the tube is a screen, your internet entertainment is on a screen, now even your cellphone has a screen and you do light computing. My car has a screen for the mileage and climate control and all that. We probably spend more time staring at screens that we do at other people's faces. It's inhuman.

[bluebear]

That response seemed to me a bit... erm... well... apple fan-boy-ish(sorry, but that's how it came across to me). I have absolutely 0 interest in the tablet PC that Apple is apparently going to be releasing. As something to read books on, it will, quite simply, stink. Why on earth would I want a book reader that can't allow me to read a single book without recharging the batteries? And yes, I'm aware it will do other things than that. But its the other things that will be the selling point of the device, not its inability to be used as a quality reading device(and to repeat one more time, unless you are using it to read to/with your 5 year old, color is completely irrelavent to the device.

And with regard to sales, the scuttlebutt that I've heard - take with a grain of salt, because it is unverifiable until Amazon actually releases numbers - is that everyone has been pleasantly surprised by the Kindle/Kindle 2's numbers, but that the Kindle DX has had very disappointing numbers(and you have to wonder if things were going so badly, why are 5 different companies scrambling to get in on the market for such a device).

I am admittedly an apple fanboy but I'm curious about your comment on a tablet...as I've heard many say the same thing. I currently read books on my iphone and it works fairly well for me, though I'm sure it is much easier to read on a Kindle given the larger size. In my opinion, a tablet could basically do several of the things that I do on my iphone like reading, watching movies, surfing, light email...but much better. Battery life could be a problem as you say but I think it would depend on how bad it is..If I could get 7 hours of these activities without a charge that would be more than sufficient. I think a tablet as a general media device (not for computing) has the potential to blow the Kindle away. Price will be key..

[DukeUsul]

I can see how this would be a very useful thing in an extreme situation like Deslok's.

But what I don't understand is why anyone in day-to-day life in the US would want to spend even more time staring at a screen. If you're in the pencil-pushing middle class, you already spend half your waking hours staring at a screen. Then you go home and the tube is a screen, your internet entertainment is on a screen, now even your cellphone has a screen and you do light computing. My car has a screen for the mileage and climate control and all that. We probably spend more time staring at screens that we do at other people's faces. It's inhuman.

+1

People always ask me why I didn't take an online masters degree program. Ummm, I already spend my whole life in front of a computer, I need some interaction with real people.

I love paper books (although the moving company doesn't love all of mine). I could never give them up.

[hc5duke]

That response seemed to me a bit... erm... well... apple fan-boy-ish(sorry, but that's how it came across to me). I have absolutely 0 interest in the tablet PC that Apple is apparently going to be releasing. As something to read books on, it will, quite simply, stink. Why on earth would I want a book reader that can't allow me to read a single book without recharging the batteries? And yes, I'm aware it will do other things than that. But its the other things that will be the selling point of the device, not its inability to be used as a quality reading device(and to repeat one more time, unless you are using it to read to/with your 5 year old, color is completely irrelavent to the device.

And with regard to sales, the scuttlebutt that I've heard - take with a grain of salt, because it is unverifiable until Amazon actually releases numbers - is that everyone has been pleasantly surprised by the Kindle/Kindle 2's numbers, but that the Kindle DX has had very disappointing numbers(and you have to wonder if things were going so badly, why are 5 different companies scrambling to get in on the market for such a device).

Wow, bb would be proud that I've been called an apple fanboy

I think as throaty points out, your situation may be different -- I just don't think a DRM-locked one-trick pony has a place in an average household. I brought up color because one of the things Amazon was trying to sell on the Kindle was magazine subscriptions - I'd hate to pay for something like the Nat'l Geographic and get it on a grayscale device. I'll yield that color isn't that important, but it's a necessary feature if Amazon wants this to be more than just a book reader.

As for batteries, would you really read for longer than a typical portable device's battery life (let's say ~5 hours)? I don't really see the benefit of having a device that offers days of battery life, but I charge all my electronic devices every night, so I may be the anomaly here.

You're right that the number of devices sold is anyone's guess, but I still think it's more likely that Amazon is hiding the numbers because it's smaller than they (and investors) want.

[PensDevil]

I don't have a Kindle, but have used Amazon's ebook app on my iPod Touch. Reading from a screen definitely loses something for me. Not enough to make up for the simplicity of having whatever books I am reading with me at all times though.

Amazon's DRM control of their ebooks is a bit concerning to me. I am not looking to copy the books and give them away or anything... But Amazon has the ability to wipe one of your purchased ebooks from your device without your consent or knowledge.

In a rather ironic scenario Amazon recently deleted all purchased copies of 1984.

[duke74]

Does anyone here have some thoughts they could share on it? I'm debating whether to purchase one in the near future. I would however have to give up the perverse pleasure of splaying books across all objects in the household. (For some reason on top of the refrigerator got to be a convenient resting place.)

PS I didn't want to bump the thread from January '08.

I have it (Kindle 2) and love it for books (at $9.99 ea generally) and for newspaper subscriptions. Every day, I get the WSJ and FT downloaded. Can scroll through article titles and click on the ones I want to read. No ads, etc.

I understand that a larger-screen version is coming out to enter the textbook market.

Two (minor) issues: No backlight, so you need the room light to read. And, no "saved search" capability (eg, you have to re-enter the search term(s) each day).

The Amazon Kindle site has a good discussion board, if I remember correctly, to get more info.

[Deslok]

Re: battery life, maybe I'm just in a unique situation(or should the be unique squared?), but since I'm routinely on 10+ hour flights(basically that's the minimal flight time from Korea to the US), yeah I need it to have more battery life than 5 hours. I also spend a number of weekends away in spots where charging could be an issue so I'll be glad of its long life then.

Reading off the kindle is quite different from reading off a computer monitor. It doesn't wear on the eyes nearly as much and feels quite similar to reading a book. I just can't picture using a computer or cell phone in the same way(and as a side note for a comment someone made re: font sizes, I actually prefer the kindle on the smallest font size, since at that size I find it most similar to reading a pulp paperback). And I do spend all day(and half the night) in front of computers, so reading from something that feels the same would possibly push me over the edge. I don't see any impending release of tablet pc devices causing issues, it is 2 different markets in my mind(the kindle has a simplified web browser in its experimental software, but I've barely touched it while in the US, and obviously won't do a thing with it overseas and I don't think it adds anything to the device). I really do think ebook readers will become a standard device for many many folks(especially if they start getting into the textbook market which is something folks on both sides of the market are taking a significant look at), to me the bigger question is will there be any uniformity to the devices. I really don't want to see one publisher putting out books on Barnes and Nobles device exculsively, someone else putting out only to the Kindle, Sony, etc.