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Thread: Lost 4/18

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Watching carolina Go To HELL!

    Thumbs up Lost 4/18

    Great episode. Just plain great! No slow moving filler here! Learning a little more of Desmond's background was not tedious, and the flash-forwards were very well done. But who didn't expect him to save Charlie once again? Not I.

    The next four weeks are muchly anticipated!

    Oh, and if y'all are not watching Jericho, the last couple of weeks have also been excellent. The "first" season last fall was slow, but not now!
    Ozzie, your paradigm of optimism!

    Go To Hell carolina, Go To Hell!
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  2. #2
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    Feb 2007
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    Greensboro, NC

    Well, at least we got to see...

    Kate gettin' dressed in her tent. That was worth it for me. Definitely need to see more of that.

    Also, I am always the LAST person to catch all the little clues and I don't tape/TIVO the show and go back and watch it, but I did notice something tonight. Near the endof the episode, when Des goes into Goatee Monk's office to turn in his tunic, there's a quick shot of a framed photo on Goatee boy's desk. It's him (Goatee) and the woman from Des's visit to the jewelery shop. Think maybe Goatee set it up so Des would meet Penelope that day? Hmmmm...

    Anyway, I have NO clue what this means, but it's interesting.

  3. #3
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    Feb 2007
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    Durham, NC

    Thumbs up Wonderful entertainment

    I agree, great episode... again. I always wondered why Desmond called everybody "brother". Next week looks like another good one...I can't wait to find out who that girl is. Where is Penny? Every week something happens that I did not expect... actually, several somethings. I love getting lost.

    Also, agree on Jericho. Next week looks like a good one here, too.
    -Son of Jarhead

    The Duke fan formerly known as BuschDevil

  4. #4
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    Good catch on the photo.

    Oh, and I couldn't agree more on the Kate part. Wow!
    -Son of Jarhead

    The Duke fan formerly known as BuschDevil

  5. #5
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    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    A curse upon you ChrisP for noticing the same little nugget I noticed last night. I was hoping to be the one to "break" that news. While I was watching the episode, as soon as I saw a photo on the guy's desk I paused the TIVO to check out who it was. My wife was getting annoyed and kept on saying, "it's nobody... it doesn't matter!!" And then I said, "it's the lady who sold Des the ring!" and she got real quiet before saying, "I hate this show. What is that supposed to mean?!?!"

    Anyway, I found this today:


    -Jason "more later" Evans

  6. #6
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    Feb 2007
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    Greensboro, NC

    Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    A curse upon you ChrisP for noticing the same little nugget I noticed last night. I was hoping to be the one to "break" that news. While I was watching the episode, as soon as I saw a photo on the guy's desk I paused the TIVO to check out who it was. My wife was getting annoyed and kept on saying, "it's nobody... it doesn't matter!!" And then I said, "it's the lady who sold Des the ring!" and she got real quiet before saying, "I hate this show. What is that supposed to mean?!?!"

    Anyway, I found this today:


    -Jason "more later" Evans
    Still don't know what it means, but...cool!

    Also, if I had Tivo, I would have used it to watch the Kate parts over and over. But, then again, my wife wasn't watching with me last night, so I'll cut ya some slack.

  7. #7
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    Feb 2007
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    Winter Park FL

    Charlie

    Was I the only one cursing at Desmond when he saved Charlie again. Charlie really gets on my nerves. Agree about Kate and about Jerico, I always block of my Wednesdays for those two shows.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuschDevil View Post
    Good catch on the photo.

    Oh, and I couldn't agree more on the Kate part. Wow!
    Good thing she brought he most sexy black thong underwear with her when she was handcuffed on the plane...

    Link to video of -- well -- you know

    -Jason "Afternoon delight... me like " Evans

  9. #9
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    Important Lost Question

    Ok gang-- I want to hear some opinions on this.

    Did Desmond change who was parachuting to the island when he saved Charlie? Had Desmond seen Penny parachuting down to the island when he saw Charlie die or did he just see someone who he suspected was Penny? In other words, if Des had let Charlie die, would it have been Penny instead of random-Portugese-chick (RPC) dangling from the tree?

    Was anyone else a little bit dsiappointed that the RPC was not someone we had seen before? I was both disappointed and kinda glad. It would have been too obvious if it had been the head monk or someone like that. We already played that game with Jack and Desmond in the football stadium running steps at the beginning of Season two. It is kinda nice that they are not playing the same tricks on us all the time.

    -Jason "I wonder if RPC will last longer than Nikki?" Evans

  10. #10
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    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Ok gang-- I want to hear some opinions on this.

    Did Desmond change who was parachuting to the island when he saved Charlie? Had Desmond seen Penny parachuting down to the island when he saw Charlie die or did he just see someone who he suspected was Penny? In other words, if Des had let Charlie die, would it have been Penny instead of random-Portugese-chick (RPC) dangling from the tree?

    Was anyone else a little bit dsiappointed that the RPC was not someone we had seen before? I was both disappointed and kinda glad. It would have been too obvious if it had been the head monk or someone like that. We already played that game with Jack and Desmond in the football stadium running steps at the beginning of Season two. It is kinda nice that they are not playing the same tricks on us all the time.

    -Jason "I wonder if RPC will last longer than Nikki?" Evans

    I personally would have been disappointed had it been Penny. I mean, I know she wants to find Desmond and all, but she's not going to go all GWB on us and put on a flight suit and eject from a crashing helicopter. Come on. I'm glad it was someone random, and I'm guessing that she's part of the crew Penny has hired to find (the Portuguese guys playing chess) and track down (RPC) Desmond and bring him back to her. She had the picture in that book in order to identify him.

  11. #11
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    By the way, everyone knows that the version of Catch-22 that Desmond found was in Portugese, right?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Did Desmond change who was parachuting to the island when he saved Charlie? Had Desmond seen Penny parachuting down to the island when he saw Charlie die or did he just see someone who he suspected was Penny? In other words, if Des had let Charlie die, would it have been Penny instead of random-Portugese-chick (RPC) dangling from the tree?
    no, no, and no

    Desmond presumed it was Penny, based on the jumbled "puzzle pieces" of his vision, but i'm pretty sure there was never a shot of Penny as the parachutist. There was the shot of the photograph in his vision, and he "filled in the blanks" to his own desire.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oso diablo View Post
    no, no, and no

    Desmond presumed it was Penny, based on the jumbled "puzzle pieces" of his vision, but i'm pretty sure there was never a shot of Penny as the parachutist. There was the shot of the photograph in his vision, and he "filled in the blanks" to his own desire.
    Cool, I'm with you-- but then why did Des feel like he had to let Charlie die? Was Charlie's death and all the guys wandering around in the jungle together integral to the arrival of the parachutist? Why was Des so insistant that they do everything exactly as his vision indicated?

    And, perhaps most importantly, does Des think that by saving Charlie he changed the identity of the parachutist?

    -Jason "I wonder if we can ever kill off Charlie at this rate-- perhaps Des has to die first for Charlie to be offed" Evans

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Cool, I'm with you-- but then why did Des feel like he had to let Charlie die? Was Charlie's death and all the guys wandering around in the jungle together integral to the arrival of the parachutist? Why was Des so insistant that they do everything exactly as his vision indicated?

    And, perhaps most importantly, does Des think that by saving Charlie he changed the identity of the parachutist?

    -Jason "I wonder if we can ever kill off Charlie at this rate-- perhaps Des has to die first for Charlie to be offed" Evans
    I think perhaps Des thought that by saving Charlie he allowed the parachutist to die. Had he not saved Charlie, (who he thought was) Penny would have lived.

    You'll notice that when he got to the scene, he was resigned to the fact that (who he thought was) Penny was dead. He took his time getting up to the tree and releasing her. And then he was quite shocked and animated when he found out (who he thought was) Penny was alive.

    So, I took away from it that the island, or whatever force is causing him to have these visions, demanded a sacrifice in Charlie in order to deliver Penny to him alive. When he allowed Charlie to live, he figured he would show up and Penny would be dead already.

  15. #15
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    My take was different. Since his visions supposedly represent reality, I think by changing the "facts" of his vision, he changed reality. According to his vision, there was a sequence of events leading up to Des kissing Penny, one of which was Charlie getting an arrow in the neck. By not letting Charlie take the arrow, he altered the course of events and, as a result, it wasn't Penny in the tree, and therefore no kissy-kissy.

    Thinking out loud for a minute, though, he keeps changing reality by saving Charlie time and time again, but he believes that Charlie's time to die has come and that at some point he won't be able to save him. He's told Charlie, "You're gonna die, brother." This means that even if he changes the course of events in his visions, the ultimate consequence (Charlie's death) will nevertheless occur at some point (when Des can't save him). Does that mean that the ultimate consequence of this vision (kissing Penny) will nevertheless come true at some point? In other words, just as it's Charlie's destiny to die (according to Des's visions and no matter how many times he saves him), is it Des's destiny to see Penny again?
    Last edited by Rich; 04-20-2007 at 01:47 PM.
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  16. #16
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    I didn't think that saving Charlie switched reality to take away Penny...

    The only thing that makes me think twice about it is the title of the episode and the copy of "Catch-22." It clearly implies a tradeoff of damned if you do, damed if you don't... Thus, the save of Charlie must have a negative consequence.

  17. #17
    I kinda have a feeling Charlie was suppose to die in season one when Ethan left him hanging after kidnapping Claire. Maybe he's been cheating death ever since?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Cool, I'm with you-- but then why did Des feel like he had to let Charlie die?
    Clearly with all the sacrifice talk during the episode Desmond must make a sacrifice. I thought at first it was either Charlie or Penny, but I think now it's Charlie. Desmond can't commit to a relationship. He'll never get Penny unless he makes a total commitment. That commitment is letting Charlie die. That's the island's test. They maybe, like Issac, the island saves Charlie.

    On the other hand, it first seemed to me that he was supposed to sacrifice Penny (figuratively). It seems odd, given Eko's fate, to demand that he let an innocent person die when he can save him. But, given the Abraham story, it seems like a test of faith, not of morals.

    Of course, I'm Biblically challenged so I may be reading this all wrong.

  19. #19
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    Finally got to watch the show. Agree it was super.

    A couple of thoughts:

    Penelope is the wife of Odysseus who waited patiently for him while he went off to the Trojan War. This made me look her up in wikipedia, which reports that her name in Greek is closest to 'duck,' which is what Des yells when he is tackling Charlie.

    I'm not sure Charlie ever gets killed--Isaac wasn't. More importantly, I don’t think this episode relates to the Bible. Des says this relates to the Abraham story, but he hasn't been asked by God to sacrifice his son. He's got visions (or flashes), and that isn’t what happened to Abraham. Further, virtually everything he says in the whole episode is a lie, and he’s a failed monk, and I don’t think he’s going to be the show’s founding religious leader. He's more like Cassandra, the prophet who, like Penelope, lived during the Trojan War. The talent drove her crazy.

    Like the Trojan War, Catch 22 took place on an island in the general vicinity off the Mediterranean. And Heller made lots of references (Bible, myths, etc), told the story from lots of angles, and the battle was not against the Others (the Germans) but against themselves.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    Finally got to watch the show. Agree it was super.

    A couple of thoughts:

    Penelope is the wife of Odysseus who waited patiently for him while he went off to the Trojan War. This made me look her up in wikipedia, which reports that her name in Greek is closest to 'duck,' which is what Des yells when he is tackling Charlie.
    Also, someone pointed out to me recently that Penelope had 108 suitors. 108 is the sum of the "numbers" and the number of minutes within which the numbers had to be entered by Desmond into the hatch's computer.

    Pretty cool.

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